Hey guys, two people cross the road and one is a woman.
*shakes fist* FEMINISM!
Edit: Oh yes, I forgot:
In this thread, bitterness and grudges are used as replacements for logic and understanding. Can you tell the difference?
Like one prominent d20 publisher who published a "joke" book called the Slayer's Guide to Females?
Did you read said book, or are you unhappy with the title (which you got wrong)?
It's the "The Slayer's Guide to Female Gamers". I truly hope that you're not assuming that it's a book on how to slay women.
The book is a joke (quite similar to "The Slayer's Guide to Games Masters"), along the lines of making fun of the stereotypical male gamer, as well as poking fun at other stereotypes. From the book:
...we're also taking the Mickey out of male gamers, as much, if not more, than gamers of the female persuasion...
The art in the book is far tamer than art that Paizo publishes.
I'd be curious to discover what exactly you found wrong with said book...
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That's an easy enough position to take when you're not the one being denied access to your children. This argument is flimsy at best. Yes, 100 years ago women couldn't divorce their husband, but does that mean that the balance of power should go the other way entirely?
Of course not.
Feminists claim to want true equality, which i have no problem with.
Unfortunately, you're squishing "feminists" and "women wanting to punish their soon-to-be-ex-husbands" into the same container.
Not all feminists are man-haters, just as not all vegetarians are PETA-loving freaks. Your bad experience with the exes of some of your guy friends does not mean that modern society is skewed toward women. It also shows that the system isn't perfect. We shouldn't throw out the barrel because of a few bad apples.
There were a lot of things that happened 100 years ago that were deplorable, but to dwell on them is ridiculous. There is no way to move forward as a society if all of our attention is focused on the mistakes of the past. Focus on the mistakes still being made in the present, correct them, and move forward.
Okay, let's focus on how sexual harassment is almost always men harassing women, how there's still a glass ceiling in most companies, how women get paid less than men, and so on--you know, the sort of thing that non-radical feminists want to see fixed (i.e., most feminists don't want to punish your divorced male friends).
Sure, looks easy enough, but over the course of a paper having to constantly rewrite any sentence that is singular and uses a pronoun
Or, learn how to do it right the first time so you don't have to rewrite it. If you're writing things on a regular basis, you have to learn some things.
OR remember to switch back and forth throughout the paper is unnecessarily burdensome.
I'm still waiting for you to cite a PH/DMG/MM/PFRPG reference where this sort of switch happens.
This is just one more pain in the @ss wonky rule of the English language that our children have to deal with when they could be learning other, more important things. (like the history of the women's suffrage or civil rights movements...a hell of a lot more important for them to know and respect than when it's PC to use he vs. she vs. they)
Tell that to the girl reading the Declaration of Independence and seeing, "and are dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal."
Tell that to the girl watching Star Trek and hearing the intro say, "to go where no man has gone before."When it all comes down to it, it's really easy for you, a *male*, to say, "what's the big deal, I don't see why this bothers anyone." It's because you're not the one whose gender is being ignored by using the "gender-neutral" word "he."
Read this sentence:
"Every American child grew up knowing he could grow up to be a police officer, a teacher, an astronaut, or even president someday."
Now, picture this child. Do you imagine the child as a boy, or a girl? Probably a boy, right? Because you're male. And because the sentence says he.
Now do you think a woman picturing this child thinks of the child as a girl because she's a woman? Or do you think she pictures a boy because the sentence says "he"?
What if we decided that "she" was the gender-neutral term from now on? Everything you read would use "she" where you want to use "he." You'd find it jarring and male-excluding--just as I suspect most women find all-"he" references in a book to be jarring and female-excluding.
Did you read said book, or are you unhappy with the title (which you got wrong)?
I haven't thought about the book in years, nor have I read it, which is why I forgot the exact title. I DO remember a lot of women in the industry being offended when THEY heard about the book's title.
The book is a joke (quite similar to "The Slayer's Guide to Games Masters"), along the lines of making fun of the stereotypical male gamer, as well as poking fun at other stereotypes.
I could publish a book of recipes called Even Your Dumb Ho Girlfriend Could Cook This as a joke, and the title would still be offensive.
Let me put it this way: If a woman walks into a game store and sees The Slayer's Guide to Female Gamers on a bookshelf, do you think she's going to have a positive or negative reaction to that? Do you think she'll feel welcome in that store, or excluded?
The art in the book is far tamer than art that Paizo publishes.
My art comment was about Avalanche Press, see for yourself.
I haven't thought about the book in years, nor have I read it, which is why I forgot the exact title. I DO remember a lot of women in the industry being offended when THEY heard about the book's title.
I thought judging a book by it's cover - or, in this case, it's tongue-in-cheek title - was bad.
I could publish a book of recipes called Even Your Dumb Ho Girlfriend Could Cook This as a joke, and the title would still be offensive.
Not even remotely similar.
Let me put it this way: If a woman walks into a game store and sees The Slayer's Guide to Female Gamers on a bookshelf, do you think she's going to have a positive or negative reaction to that? Do you think she'll feel welcome in that store, or excluded?
Quite honestly? I tend to think most people, female and male, are intelligent and not hypersensitive. I'm quite sure that the vast majority of women I know would pretty quickly realize that it's likely a joke, and it wouldn't bother them in the slightest.
Anecdotally, I do know that this particular book is on my shelf with a number of other Slayer's Guides that I picked up on the cheap, and of the number of women who have seen it (both gamer and non), all were instantly drawn to it, assumed it to be humor from the start, and were all amused by it.
I'd point out that much of the content was similar to the male stereotype/female stereotype jokes that were made in Dorkness Rising - something I'd assume that you endorse, seeing as you had a role in it.
My art comment was about Avalanche Press, see for yourself.
Wow, that´s really ... I don´t have words for it, but these covers are really cheap shots. Incidentally, I own the german version of the greenland saga, but that cover is ok, if cheesy. Some of the others are sexist and remind me of soft p...
And Brian, concerning the "fun" title: If it is viewed within the context of your home and probably easily explained as a joke, I´m sure no one will be offended by it. If it is just sitting on a FLGS shelf, and a potential new female gamer sees it without any explanation offered, it can be offending and lead to said potential gamer being turned off gaming. I think that title is stupid and would not buy it, for sure (I won´t spend money on what I see as an extended high school joke).
Stefan
If it is viewed within the context of your home and probably easily explained as a joke, I´m sure no one will be offended by it. If it is just sitting on a FLGS shelf, and a potential new female gamer sees it without any explanation offered, it can be offending and lead to said potential gamer being turned off gaming. I think that title is stupid and would not buy it, for sure (I won´t spend money on what I see as an extended high school joke).
Stefan
Is it the inclusion of the word "slayer" that's offensive?
Or is it that it references the female sex? If it was titled "The Guide to Female Gamers", would it still be offensive?
Well, ask yourself: If you had no idea (or at least, no real idea) what RPGs are about, and would see a book title "the slayers guide to male gamers", would you feel like this game was made for you? Even if I get it that this is a joke, it is a joke at my expense, and would not make me likely to be interested in that game. From an "insiders" POV, it easy to handwave it away as a joke. But for folks that are casually interested, it could turn them off gaming. What is offending about it is that female gamers are put on a "to kill" list with monsters in the game, and equals women = monsters, even if in jest. Books are judged by their covers, at least at first. And if the cover comes across as offending, why bother with a closer look?
Stefan
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Feminists claim to want true equality, which i have no problem with.Unfortunately, you're squishing "feminists" and "women wanting to punish their soon-to-be-ex-husbands" into the same container.
Not all feminists are man-haters, just as not all vegetarians are PETA-loving freaks. Your bad experience with the exes of some of your guy friends does not mean that modern society is skewed toward women. It also shows that the system isn't perfect. We shouldn't throw out the barrel because of a few bad apples.
I'm not sure that it is ok to imply that there are so few of the "bad ones" either. I don't think that all or most are "man-haters", but the movement, (specifically the modern feminis movement) has done a lot more harm to men, families, and children than can just be brushed under the rug as an acceptible side effect of the greater good.
Okay, let's focus on how sexual harassment is almost always men harassing women, how there's still a glass ceiling in most companies, how women get paid less than men, and so on--you know, the sort of thing that non-radical feminists want to see fixed (i.e., most feminists don't want to punish your divorced male friends).
Most of those actually have very good reasons for them, though. These are generalizations, so there are obviously exceptions. The so called glass ceiling, the less pay, and so on almost always, when they still happen are do to females personal preferences. Most women will not take riskier or physically demanding jobs, are less inclined to travel, are less likely to work bizzar hours, and things like that. It rarely has anything to do with them being female, per se, as much as more of an investment from companies. It also rarely has anything to do with education, although prior work experience does play a part, and less women have professional work experience. Typically, women also require more (from a companies part) in medical expenses and off days.
As for Sexual Harassment, this is a trap. It is true, but only from a limited and narrow point of view. Females are more often to complain about sexual harrasment, and much more likely to actually have anything done about it when they do complain. Males are generally expected to just take it. A great deal of the time that a male does complain, G_d forbid it to a female boss, [I have personal experience on this one], because there is automatic suspicion that the male some how invited/deserved it. (take a moment to recall what feminists say about women sending out signals, . . . hypocracy). So basically, there is a good chance that the male can't do anything about it, feels they are not suppossed to, and even if they do, they might get in trouble themselves for it.
Males can lose their job over suspected harrasment, meaning even if they are found not guilty, they may not get their job back. Most of the time, females get a warning, and that is it. If feminism was about equality, then they would universally be against this sort of double standard, that is every single feminist would stand against it.
It is suspected that over 50% of sexual harrasment claims are false, (more so for rape and abuse, depending on state). Because of the way harrasment laws work, it is usually person 1 (typically female) against person 2's word. If person 2 (typically male) doesn't admitt to it, but person 1 continues to complain, it is likely that person 2 is moved to a different area in company, (likely losing their position if needed for the move), for fear of person 1 going public or mking a federal claim. Of those 50-70%, it is highly suspected that the female has a grudge against person 2, or wants an advancement,
Let me say again, I'm in no way anti-female, and actually very fond of women.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I really, really, really don't think you guys are going to resolve this on an RPG board.
And since it no longer has anything whatsoever to do with Pathfinder, I'm locking this thread.
Please feel free to start up a new political discussion in the Off-Topic area, but this one is done here.