So after the first summoner playtest that I ran a couple of weeks ago I am itching to try out the new and improved rules.
Azmahel, anyone else, up for a new pbp slugfest?
I'll bring a 9th level summoner and his PC eating eidolon, you my opponent bring 4 PCs with the elite array and level appropriate gear.
So after the first summoner playtest that I ran a couple of weeks ago I am itching to try out the new and improved rules.
Azmahel, anyone else, up for a new pbp slugfest?
I'll bring a 9th level summoner and his PC eating eidolon, you my opponent bring 4 PCs with the elite array and level appropriate gear.
I dont have the time right now, but I have a question. What level were the PC's you wanted? 7?
I dont have the time right now, but I have a question. What level were the PC's you wanted? 7?
Ahwww.
And yes, level 7 PCs are what the playtest requires for a CR 8 encounter.
And for a somewhat level playing field, the black tentacles spell is offlimits.
But dismissal is still allowed for clerics?
I'd say yes, but I am hesitant, mainly because my metagame alert goes off. That is to say: how often do clerics have dismissal prepared?
Because preparing a anti-summoner party is easy, I am looking to run a playtest that avoids too much metagame thinking.
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But dismissal is still allowed for clerics?I'd say yes, but I am hesitant, mainly because my metagame alert goes off. That is to say: how often do clerics have dismissal prepared?
Because preparing a anti-summoner party is easy, I am looking to run a playtest that avoids too much metagame thinking.
I've had clerics in the past with dismissal prepared all the time. I think it depends on your gm/campaign. *shrug* it would probably be safe to say no dismissal as that would pretty much halt the play test on a failed save.
I've had clerics in the past with dismissal prepared all the time. I think it depends on your gm/campaign. *shrug* it would probably be safe to say no dismissal as that would pretty much halt the play test on a failed save.
But dismissal is still allowed for clerics?I'd say yes, but I am hesitant, mainly because my metagame alert goes off. That is to say: how often do clerics have dismissal prepared?
Because preparing a anti-summoner party is easy, I am looking to run a playtest that avoids too much metagame thinking.
Does this mean your game?
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I've had clerics in the past with dismissal prepared all the time. I think it depends on your gm/campaign. *shrug* it would probably be safe to say no dismissal as that would pretty much halt the play test on a failed save.
But dismissal is still allowed for clerics?I'd say yes, but I am hesitant, mainly because my metagame alert goes off. That is to say: how often do clerics have dismissal prepared?
Because preparing a anti-summoner party is easy, I am looking to run a playtest that avoids too much metagame thinking.
Does this mean your game?
lol. Maybe this weekend. I don't have the time until then. Occasional posts during work is fine... creating 4 characters probably not so much :)
So after the first summoner playtest that I ran a couple of weeks ago I am itching to try out the new and improved rules.
Azmahel, anyone else, up for a new pbp slugfest?
I'll bring a 9th level summoner and his PC eating eidolon, you my opponent bring 4 PCs with the elite array and level appropriate gear.
I'm intrigued... Might I get a post containing info as to stats and such of the E and his pet Summoner? Or is the mystery part of the majesty of the challenge?
If so... I accept!EDIT: Also, what's the info on stats for my band of four? Point buy? (How much if so)
I'm intrigued... Might I get a post containing info as to stats and such of the E and his pet Summoner? Or is the mystery part of the majesty of the challenge?
If so... I accept!
EDIT: Also, what's the info on stats for my band of four? Point buy? (How much if so)
It's a surprise, just like when a party has an encounter ;>
And, to be honest, I need to create the stats.Your 4 PCs and my summoners use the elite array: 15,14,13,12,10,8.
You get level appropriate gear, but nothing over 8000gp.
I get encounter appropriate gear, this is to keep it a CR 8 enncounter and not turn it in CR 9. Not that I usually get a lot of mileage out of gear.
And, to be honest, I need to create the stats.
I am done, I am really going to hurt you ;>
Not if he has a Wand of Dismissal!!!
Luckily my 8000gp cap has that one covered!
Draeke, are you still game?
Because I was thinking that having multiple opponents or players might be a good thing for the playtest. I noticed playing against azmahel that if one players controls 4 pc's you see tactics that are a lot better than at the gaming table with 4 different players.
So I could playtest against you or adam, or we could run a playtest where each of you controls 2 PCs.
Draeke, are you still game?
Because I was thinking that having multiple opponents or players might be a good thing for the playtest. I noticed playing against azmahel that if one players controls 4 pc's you see tactics that are a lot better than at the gaming table with 4 different players.
So I could playtest against you or adam, or we could run a playtest where each of you controls 2 PCs.
I would be willing to run one of the PC's, perhaps we can split up the roles and make characters as we would normally make them. Frontliner, skill specialist, Divine and Arcane casters?
Rather then putting just the generic fighter/rogue/cleric/wizard party.
Any interest in that? I think could probably make at least one character today.
One thing i would ask darkjoy is what do we know about the summoner, not detailed stats, but is this a surprise encounter, or is he a persued villian? The CR leads me to believe he is an important villian, so basic information the party would know would be useful in preparing reasonable (non-cheesy) spells.
So I think I might be able to put together 4 pc's today, here is what my party would consist of.
Fighter
Ranger
Druid
Bard
I wanted to go for a little less generic but still fairly balanced.
First question ofc, is as a DM how do you handle favored enemy/terrain. Generally as a DM I give a short list of favored enemies (2-4) and terrains (1-3). If you are willing to do this please provide it.
So I think I might be able to put together 4 pc's today, here is what my party would consist of.
Fighter
Ranger
Druid
BardI wanted to go for a little less generic but still fairly balanced.
First question ofc, is as a DM how do you handle favored enemy/terrain. Generally as a DM I give a short list of favored enemies (2-4) and terrains (1-3). If you are willing to do this please provide it.
This was actually pretty close to what i was going to field, cept no ranger.
And also to DarkJoy, you say nothing over 8,000 but wealth for that level is 23.5k, or do you just mean no SINGLE item over 8k?
Also a few other questions:
Are we (the group or four) only using Core Rulebook classes?
And where might our adventurers be in this "random" encounter?
Also I've been considering throwing a Paladin in the fray, will our attacker be evil? Only reason I can think of for it to attack us.
Lot's of good questions:
1) The playtest is just a straight encounter, you don't know me, I don't know you but I've got this urge to kill you.
2) Fakehealer has provided a few battlemaps during a previous playtest, we will be using those: forest is the theme.
3)no single item over 8k.
4)core rulebook only
5)you get one corner of the battlemap, I get another one.
6)There is a very high chance that the summoner is CN
7)core rulebook only applies to feats, skills, atc. If it is not in the book, it can't be used.
8)no monster races
9) as to not metagame, do our characters understand at least basically how a summoner works? mainly that if the summoner's killed the eidolon dismisses?
Answer: you succeed on a knowledge check, you know. And your question reeks of metagame!
Still have room for one more? (EDIT: Drat, guessing you do not, as I count four potential players having posted already. Ah well, I'll keep an eye out in case I'm wrong.)
In addition: I am very happy that you three want to playtest, but I do want to stress this is a playtest. Meaning that I know you can create a summoner destroying PC, but that is not the point of the exercise.
The playtest could for example require that you engage the summoner more than once, playing against Azmahel I noticed that he went all out, spending lots of resources, and the next encounter almost crippled him. In my mind validating that the summoner was an above average CR threat.
I look forward to your PCs.
Still have room for one more? (EDIT: Drat, guessing you do not, as I count four potential players having posted already. Ah well, I'll keep an eye out in case I'm wrong.)
You bring a PC, you play.
Because in truth, I just want to start already ;>
You bring a PC, you play.
Because in truth, I just want to start already ;>
Excellent, rolling someone up now then.
Everything that is green is undergrowth.
Undergrowth: Vines, roots, and short bushes cover much of the ground in a forest. A space covered with light undergrowth costs 2 squares of movement to move into, and provides concealment. Undergrowth increases the DC of Acrobatics and Stealth checks by 2 because the leaves and branches get in the way.
Everything with a circle around it is a tree.
Trees: The most important terrain element in a forest is the trees, obviously. A creature standing in the same square as a tree gains partial cover, which grants a +2 bonus to Armor Class and a +1 bonus on Reflex saves. The presence of a tree doesn't otherwise affect a creature's fighting space, because it's assumed that the creature is using the tree to its advantage when it can. The trunk of a typical tree has AC 4, hardness 5, and 150 hp. A DC 15 Climb check is sufficient to climb a tree.
Two questions on a couple points that tend to vary a lot from DM to DM:
1. How do you handle stealth and awareness? For example, is it possible to move from cover to cover, or does moving into any open space automatically break stealth (regardless of your stealth check).
and 2. The line in the buckler description that says "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it [the buckler]." Do you rule that as "You keep the AC from the buckler while using a bow" or "You just don't take penalties to your attack because of the buckler"?
You can start in A-D + 15-19
I'll start in xx-aaa + 15-19
Two questions on a couple points that tend to vary a lot from DM to DM:
1. How do you handle stealth and awareness? For example, is it possible to move from cover to cover, or does moving into any open space automatically break stealth (regardless of your stealth check).
and 2. The line in the buckler description that says "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it [the buckler]." Do you rule that as "You keep the AC from the buckler while using a bow" or "You just don't take penalties to your attack because of the buckler"?
Stealth skill as written handles all the details. pertinent parts are:
Your Stealth check is opposed by the Perception check of anyone who might notice you. You can move up to half your normal speed and use Stealth at no penalty. When moving at a speed greater than half but less than your normal speed, you take a –5 penalty. It's impossible to use Stealth while attacking, running, or charging.
Creating a Diversion to Hide: You can use Bluff to allow you to use Stealth. A successful Bluff check can give you the momentary diversion you need to attempt a Stealth check while people are aware of you
Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can't make a shield bash with a buckler.
Stealth skill as written handles all the details.
Glad to hear it, just wanted to make sure putting points into stealth wouldn't be a complete waste if you were going by the "Doing anything at all outside of total concealment means they make a perception check against a DC 0 instead of your stealth" interpretation.
In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn.
Fair enough, that's the way I rule it as well when I DM, just wanted to ask since there the official ruling went the other way in 3.5
Oh, HP, average? rounded down? up? alternating?
Oh, HP, average? rounded down? up? alternating?
HP = full hp from 1st dice, and average from the remaining dice.
Ok, last question. Will Cohorts and animal companions go on their own initiative, or on the PC's initiative?
Also, here's my character + cohort (who may switch out the imp. init feat for something else depending on your answer). Everything should check out, but let me know if you see anything I made a mistake on or just forgot to include.
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Halfling Barbarian 1/Fighter 6
Init +4; Perception +11
Defense
AC 25, 16 touch, 21 flat=footed (+8 Armor, +4 Dex, +1 Deflection, +1 Natural, +1 Size)
HP 58 (72)
Fort +9, Ref +7, Will +3
Offense
Speed 30 ft.
Ranged Shortbow +13/+8 (1d6+7, x3, 70 ft. range increment)
Statistics
STR 14 (18), DEX 18, CON 13 (17), INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 10
Base Atk +7; CMB +8 (+10); CMD +12 (+14)
Skills Acrobatics +16, Handle Animal +6, Perception +11, Stealth +20
Equipment
+2 Breast Plate (4,000 gp + 350 gp)
+2 Composite Shortbow (8,000 gp + 375 gp)
100 Arrows
Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2 (4,000 gp)
Amulet of Natural Armor +1 (2,000 gp)
Ring of Protection +1 (2,000 gp)
Cloak of Elvenkind (2,500 gp)
20 Potions of Cure Light Wounds
120 gp
Racial Abilities
Small: +1 AC, +1 to hit, -1 CMB/CMD, +4 Stealth
20 ft. base speed
+2 vs. fear
+1 on all saves
+2 on Perception
+2 on Acrobatics and Climb
Class Abilities
Fast Movement
Rage (5 rounds)
Bravery +2
Armor Training I
Weapon Training I (Bows)
Feats
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Weapon Focus (Shortbow)
Deadly Aim
Weapon Spec (Shortbow)
Far Shot
Manyshot
Precise Shot
Gale,
Lose the cohort, animal companions are valid playtest material but cohorts are not in my opinion.
I assume that the above will not change your halfling that much, so I'll spend some time reviewing it.
Gale,
Lose the cohort, animal companions are valid playtest material but cohorts are not in my opinion.
I assume that the above will not change your halfling that much, so I'll spend some time reviewing it.
Not entirely certain I agree, Leadership is in the Core book and having the extra feats to take things like leadership is one of the perks of being a fighter after all, but it's your test. I'll take Precise shot instead then.
Is the shortbow damage correct, or is that the damage when you rage? No melee weapon?
Is the shortbow damage correct, or is that the damage when you rage? No melee weapon?
No melee weapon (although I suppose there's no reason I couldn't carry a non-magical melee weapon for emergencies, I'll go with a small Trident, that way I can use it in a grapple if need be, or use it as a backup thrown weapon), the damage on the shortbow is from Strength (+2), Weapon Specialization (+2), Weapon Training (+1), and Enhancement (+2). While raging that goes up by another +2 from the increased strength and when using Deadly Aim it goes up by another +4.
If absolutely everything clicked all at once (rage, deadly aim, point blank shot, manyshot, and rapid shot) the total bonuses to attack and damge would be +10 for 2d6+28 (2 arrows) and +10/+5 for 1d6+14.
(One correction I just noticed, I guess technically it shouldn't be a Shortbow, it should be a small size longbow, same damage, but slightly better range)
And now to wait... or I could roll up more PCs?
Darkjoy are doing this by PBP or what? I'm intrigued.
Darkjoy are doing this by PBP or what? I'm intrigued.
Yes, I'll create a thread when everyone is ready.
@gale
If you have time, please do it, back-ups are always handy ;>
Darkjoy are doing this by PBP or what? I'm intrigued.Yes, I'll create a thread when everyone is ready.
@gale
If you have time, please do it, back-ups are always handy ;>
Yeah, it's a lazy, cloudy, cold, stay inside sort of Saturday for me, so I've got nothing but time. I'll start work on a Bard, already have the basics from the Cohort I had, so shouldn't take long.
Mind if I make a 7th level witch?
And viola, a bard named Singer. This bard focuses primarily on buffing his companions with effects like Good Hope and Haste while being very hard to shut down (hence the high AC and impressive HP). If the opportunity presents itself, he's got a handy Wand of Searing Ray for dealing some surprise damage or disrupting other casters, and he can dispense some reasonable crowd control with spells like Glitterdust and Hypnotic Pattern (as long as his foes have low will saves at least). He can play combat medic if need be as well, though he's no replacement for a full cleric if damage gets really heavy.
EDIT: Noticed I forgot to calculate performance rounds per day.
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Singer
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Gnome Bard 7
Init +7; Senses low-light vision; Perception +12
Defense
AC 25, 16 touch, 21 flat-footed (+5 Armor, +3 Shield, +4 Dexterity, +1 Deflection, +1 Natural, +1 Size)
HP 70
Fort +6, Ref +10, Will +6
Offense
Speed 20 ft.
Ranged Touch Wand of Searing Ray +9 (4d6 fire)
Statistics
STR 6, DEX 18, CON 16, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 18 (14+2+2)
Base Atk. +5, CMB +2, CMD +4
Skills: Acrobatics +17*, Bluff +17*, Escape Artist +14, Fly +17*, Knowledge (Arcana) +10, Knowledge (Religion) +8, Knowledge (The Planes) +10, Perform (Dance) +17, Perform (Sing) +17, Perception +12, Sense Motive +17*, Stealth +18, Use Magic Device +17
*Perform total used for these skills due to Versatile Performance.
Equipment
Headband of Charisma +2 (4,000 gp)
Belt of Dexterity +2 (4,000 gp)
+1 Chain Shirt (1,000 gp + 250 gp)
+1 Lg. Steel Shield (1,000 gp + 170 gp)
Ring of Protection +1 (2,000 gp)
Amulet of Natural Armor +1 (2,000 gp)
Cloak of Protection +1 (1,000 gp)
Wand of Scorching Ray (wizard) (6,000 gp)
10 Potions of Cure Light Wounds (500 gp)
10 Potions of Lesser Restoration (500 gp)
Feats
Skill Focus (Perform)
Skill Focus (Use Magic Device)
Toughness
Improved Initiative
Racial Abilities
Small: +1 AC, +1 to hit, -1 CMB/CMD, +4 Stealth
20 ft. base speed
Low-Light Vision
Defensive Training
Gnome Magic (+1 DC of illusions, 1/day-dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation, speak with animals)
Hatred
+2 vs. illusions
+2 Perception
+2 to one Craft or Profession
Class Abilities
Bardic Knowledge
Bardic Performance (24 rounds per day, move equivalent action to start)
Countersong
Distraction
Fascinate
Inspire Courage (+2)
Inspire Competence (+3)
Versatile Performance (Song: Bluff and Sense Motive)
Versatile Performance (Dance: Acrobatics and Fly)
Well-Versed
Lore Master 1/day
Spells (5/4/2)
0th- Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Read Magic
1st- Charm Person, Cure Light Wounds, Grease, Hideous Laughter, Ventriloquism
2nd- Cure Moderate Wounds, Hypnotic Pattern, Glitterdust, Mirror Image
3rd- Good Hope, Haste
Name: Twitch
Race: Elf
Alignment: LN
Class: Witch 7
HP: 51
STR: 8 -1
DEX: 14 +2 (base 12, +2 race)
CON: 15 +2 (base 13, -2 race, +4 item)
INT: 22 +6 (base 15, +2 race, +1 level, +4 item)
WIS: 12 +1
CHA: 10
Fort: +6
Ref: +6
Will: +13
BAB: +3
AC: 18, 10+ (4 mage armor) + (2 Dex) + (1 ring) + (1 amulet)
21 w/ shield of faith +3
CMB: +2
CMD: +4
Skills;
+13 Fly
+11Heal
+16 Knw (arcana)
+16 Knw (history)
+16 Knw (planes)
+16 Spellcraft
Attacks;
Longbow +5 (1d8, x2)
Specials;
Hex - Misfortune
Hex - Slumber (DC 19)
Hex - Evil Eye
Hex - Flight
Familiar- Hoots, owl
HP: 4
AC: 19
Feats;
1 Toughness
3 Scribe Scroll
5 Spell Focus (transmutation)
7 Greater Spell Focus (transmutation)
Equipment;
8,000 Headband of Int +4
8,000 Belt of Con +4
2,000 Cloak of Res +2
2,000 Ring of Deflection +1
2,000 Amulet of Nat Armor +1
random adventuring gear
Scrolls;
750 2 scroll of dispel magic
1,400 2 scroll of baleful polymorph
700 scroll of summon monster IV
Spells Known:
0-All
1-cause fear, charm person, cure light wounds, feather fall, grease, identify, mage armor, ray of enfeeblement, summon monster I
2 alter self, hold person, summon monster II, web
3 remove curse, bestow curse, dispel magic, summon monster III
4 baleful polymorph, summon monster IV
Spells Prepared:
0 detect magic, read magic, prestidigitation, light, message
1 cause fear (DC 17), charm person (DC 17), mage armor, shield of faith (bonus), summon monster I, summon monster I
2 hold person (DC 18), summon monster II, summon monster II, web
3 bestow curse (DC 19), dispel magic, summon monster III
4 baleful polymorph (DC 22), owl's wisdom (bonus), summon monster IV
There's a PC, how does that dapper fellow look to you?
Mind if I make a 7th level witch?
Actually, I want to playtest against core.
ETA: I'm sorry that I didn't respond sooner.
You like your PCs small eh?
You like your PCs small eh?
Heh, well I do enjoy the contrast against the usual big hulking types, but in this case it was simply a matter of taking the two races that helped me accomplish my goals the best.
For the ambush/skirmish fighter-archer, I needed decent dexterity and bonuses to stealth (both of which Halfling got me) and for the Bard I wanted the racial kick to Charisma and as much AC/HP as possible for survivability (which happened to make gnome perfect). Now that I've got two of them though, it is making me want to make a little lollipop guild death squad.
I just can't decide what two classes to add to the mix. Paladin? Cleric? Wizard? Druid? So many options. EDIT: Scratch that, decided what I'm going with. Halfling Cleric and Gnome Wizard (Illusionist). Stats to follow (relatively) shortly.
Haha, I take it you saw the trick up my sleeve ;) I love the fact that witches can fly pretty much at will and have baleful polymorph at 4th level.
Haha, I take it you saw the trick up my sleeve ;) I love the fact that witches can fly pretty much at will and have baleful polymorph at 4th level.
Uhm, no. Actually I didn't, I just want to playtest the summoner vs core and not against another variable.
Azmahel, anyone else, up for a new pbp slugfest?
I would actually like to, but not before Wednesday (exam then) and I don't know if I'll have as much time then ( including time to create a PC) I think for the first round I'll stand at the sidelines and watch.
Hopefully you will progress as fast as we did last time.We had the benefit of being in the same timezone and only needing 2 people to post for a turn, so I'm in doubt.
As to the tactics and "going all out" issues:
An experienced group that is used to playing together often uses good tactics ( at least my groups do) not as good as a whole party played by one person with a lot of time to think about moves, but good enough to use delay, ready and flanking to their benefit.
Going all out is , in my eyes, quite necessary if going against a well build (I called you out to create the most horrible PC killing thing conceivable) caster at APL +3 that is going "all out" too. And I just did not hesitate to use my highest level spells. (Which I don't do if i play casters in "normal" campaign. I don't go "nova", but I consider trying to make your way through a challenging encounter without using your best resources and end up still having them at the end of the day is more of a waste than having them cast before a very hard encounter. (you at least saved the other characters resources that way).
We are still waiting for a ranger and druid.
If none are forthcoming I'd say we replace them with Azmahel's rogue and cleric (although those need to be vetted).
Tomorrow will be a busy day for me, projected online time is after 18:00 European time.
We are still waiting for a ranger and druid.
If none are forthcoming I'd say we replace them with Azmahel's rogue and cleric (although those need to be vetted).
Tomorrow will be a busy day for me, projected online time is after 18:00 European time.
That works, I'll keep the tiny Cleric and tiny Wizard in mind then, but I'll wait to see how many more we get before I worry about specific stats.