The rules don't seem to be clear if you can. For example, if I have a crossbow pointed at somebody and ready an action to shoot if he draws a weapon, is that allowable?
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See the "Ready" action which deals with Initiative. It is just a fancy way of saying "if you do X, I will beat your initiative by doing Y." Whether you're in combat or not, you can do what you've described by readying a standard action to shoot your foe if he sets off the trigger: drawing a weapon.
The Ready action indicates "for the rest of the encounter" your initiative becomes immediately before your foe, whose action you were waiting upon. Thus, even if you haven't rolled initiative, your initiative comes right before your foe on whatever he happens to roll - so long as the condition is met!
I agree with doing some common sense RP as noted above, but if you're needing a rules check, do the following:
(1) Declare Ready action conditions
(2) See what foe does
(3a) Roll initiative for your foe if he meets the condition, with your character automatically going before him (if it's just the two of you, no point rolling initiative - you go first);
(3b) OR roll initiative normally if he does something outside the condition like charge you.
I'd say roll initiative, in your example who is to say he didnt ready his action as well as soon as you shoot he does X.. kinda defeats the purpose, just roll your initiative
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Yes and no. It depends on the situation. Think of a sniper situation when the target is unaware of your presence. In such a case you'd be readying a surprise round action and then when you use the action (shooting the target in the surprise round) and then normal combat begins.
However, the way D&D combat works, when you're face to face, they're aware of you, so the moment you take a hostile action it triggers combat, initiatives are rolled, and if you don't get the initiative, well then you don't have an action yet.
Remember, just because I say "I punch him" before initiatives are rolled doesn't mean I get to attack him first if he's going to fight back.
The 3.5 ruling was no you couldn't but if you tried to you didn't count as flat footed in the surprise round of combat.
I'd rule it on a case-by-case basis, based on how reasonable it sounds to me.
Another interpretation, which also only works some of the time, is trying to get a surprise round on the foe. This sort of requires the opponent to not expect you to, say, leap over the table and kick him in the face, though. If you want to shoot a guy when he draws his weapon, he's probably just as ready for combat as you are.
I'd rule it on a case-by-case basis, based on how reasonable it sounds to me.
Another interpretation, which also only works some of the time, is trying to get a surprise round on the foe. This sort of requires the opponent to not expect you to, say, leap over the table and kick him in the face, though. If you want to shoot a guy when he draws his weapon, he's probably just as ready for combat as you are.
A situation that needs to be addressed is when "I'm goona shoot whatever comes through that door!"
Of course, some limits have to be maintained so as to not have someone ready to take an action over an exceedingly long amount of time or "I'm gonna shoot whatever comes through that door....today or maybe even tomorrow!"
Seems like Perception checks will apply....
The rules don't seem to be clear if you can. For example, if I have a crossbow pointed at somebody and ready an action to shoot if he draws a weapon, is that allowable?
It seems to me that you are initiating combat with your "ready action." You are saying that you already have the crossbow out and aimed at him. If he isn't attacking you, then once you decide to attack him with it (even conditionally) that would (imo) begin combat with your ready action. And the "combat" status would continue round by round until action started and all the fighting was resolved, or until the encounter ended without him ever drawing a weapon (and thus you never shooting).
Remember, just because I say "I punch him" before initiatives are rolled doesn't mean I get to attack him first if he's going to fight back.
Even if he's not going to try and fight back until after you try and punch him? If we're dealing with a "standoff" kind of situation, where neither side is attempting any combat actions, then the first one to attempt a combat action (including a "Ready Action") would be the first to have their action resolved because all "earlier" actors in that round have taken the delay action by not attempting any action.
Of course, if the other side is also standing their saying, "I'm gonna pop him if he tries to take a swing at me," then you're back to normal initiative situations.
If we're dealing with a situation where there is no confrontation/combat issue until some action occurs (like the guy with the crossbow knows that he and his buddies have set up the opponents for a double cross, so there are about to be blows exchanged that the other guys do not know are coming), then there would be surprise issues. If the non-confrontational situation allows the crossbow to be drawn, cocked and aimed without arising suspicion (sense motive and/or perception checks would seem in order here), then the ready action should certainly be allowed and the resulting conditional attack would occur immediately before the action of the guy drawing the weapon.
The 3.5 ruling was no you couldn't but if you tried to you didn't count as flat footed in the surprise round of combat.
I'd rule something similar -- you don't get to ready an action, per se, but you would certainly get to act in the surprise round (if any).
I'd rule something similar -- you don't get to ready an action, per se, but you would certainly get to act in the surprise round (if any).
I like this approach. Circumstances will dictate combatants' awareness of each other, and that will override the readying with the surprise round.
The thing is, there is a big difference between two people exchanging hostile words with their weapons sheathed, and someone standing there with a crossbow loading, cocked, and aimed at the other person.
The first case is what I would consider a quick draw situation. I would make the players roll initiative, even if one declared they were readying an action.
The second one, one character obviously has the drop on the the other, and only needs to pull the trigger/release an arrow to complete their action.
The other major difference is that the second situation is a much more hostile posture. If you have weapons drawn on someone, then you are using the threat of violence. It will be extremely hard to convince them that you are really a nice guy. You can get them to do what you want, but they WON'T be happy about it.
Basically I would allow someone to take a readied attack in the surprise round under the following circumstances.
- They must have the weapon drawn and pointed at the person in a very threatening manner. Bows and Crossbows must be loaded and drawn/cocked. Melee weapons must be out and held close to the target(Think a rogue behind you with a knife at your throat or a swordsman with the tip of their sword nicking your throat). A Wizard would be concentrating intently with spell components in hand.
- They have to pick their target when they declare their readied action. This also means they cannot change target when they find out the other guy is a mage and he starts combat by casting a spell.
- They have to specify exactly what the trigger is(if they say reach for or draw a weapon, the person is actually a monk or a wizard, too bad) If they say something vague like any hostile action, I will make them make a sense motive check if they blow it bad enough, that guy reaching up to scratch is nose just provoked the player into unloading.
I don't see any real problem with players using readied actions to start combat as long as there are significant and obvious drawbacks to doing it.
Some may find this helpful.
"Characters who know a confrontation is about to commence might want to ready actions. Doing so would bend the rules because you're not supposed to use the ready action until after an encounter starts. The DM, however, might want to allow readying in this special situation. In any case, ready is an action itself, and the character with the readied action must give up other preparations."
Source:
"Rules of the Game: All About Initiative (Part Two)" - http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20051129a.
The article has lots of discussion on this subject but in the end it seems the recommendation is to bend the rules and do as you like.
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Remember, just because I say "I punch him" before initiatives are rolled doesn't mean I get to attack him first if he's going to fight back.Even if he's not going to try and fight back until after you try and punch him?
Well then that's completely different.
If we're dealing with a "standoff" kind of situation, where neither side is attempting any combat actions, then the first one to attempt a combat action (including a "Ready Action") would be the first to have their action resolved because all "earlier" actors in that round have taken the delay action by not attempting any action.
It's up to the DM.
Think of a western standoff. Everyone's looking at each, hand on holstered pistol. Initiative COULD represents that supernatural quickness to draw and fire the gun first, even if the other guy attempted to draw and shoot first.
Surprise rounds only happen when the "target" is unaware of you.
In either case, if combat is unavoidable a smart DM would make everyone roll initiative. You then have your choice of readied action, pass, or attack.
If we're dealing with a situation where there is no confrontation/combat issue until some action occurs (like the guy with the crossbow knows that he and his buddies have set up the opponents for a double cross, so there are about to be blows exchanged that the other guys do not know are coming), then there would be surprise issues. If the non-confrontational situation allows the crossbow to be drawn, cocked and aimed without arising suspicion (sense motive and/or perception checks would seem in order here), then the ready action should certainly be allowed and the resulting conditional...
Nope, because even if it's drawn and ready, it doesn't mean the person holding it is aware, focused, and what not. Also, if you're pointed it at me, I may be "fast enough" to react before you can shoot. Thus initiative has to be rolled, it's why it exists.
The ONLY time surprise rounds happen are when "targets" are unaware. Confrontational or not.
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"Characters who know a confrontation is about to commence might want to ready actions. Doing so would bend the rules because you're not supposed to use the ready action until after an encounter starts. The DM, however, might want to allow readying in this special situation. In any case, ready is an action itself, and the character with the readied action must give up other preparations."
Yeap, bending the rules. By the rules you can't.
The rules don't seem to be clear if you can. For example, if I have a crossbow pointed at somebody and ready an action to shoot if he draws a weapon, is that allowable?
I wouldn't allow it. Initiative is there for a reason. You can only ready an action on someone if you get a jump on people.
So you either surprise someone (and get a surprise round) or you win initiative. Otherwise, you're out of luck.
Always remember that this could be used against you.
Nope, because even if it's drawn and ready, it doesn't mean the person holding it is aware, focused, and what not. Also, if you're pointed it at me, I may be "fast enough" to react before you can shoot.
React to what? Even if you have the higher initiative, you have chosen to take no action this "round" (a delay action), so when my turn comes and I choose to shoot you (or Ready an action to shoot you), then my action comes ahead of your action in the initiative. And we know that you have chosen to take no action because you have said that you are just standing there (in the scenario described). Now, there's not likely to be many situations where someone is going to be pointed a loaded, cocked crossbow at you and you won't be at least readying an action (like, say, get the hell out of the way). But as described, that was the scenario. The initiative is irrelevant because unless you've already stated an intent to take some action (including potentially a ready action), your action would be to delay.
But maybe that's just me. I'm not big on preternatural "spider sense" rolls for people to react to actions that have not been taken yet. To me, that would be akin to giving you attacks of opportunity based on move actions that haven't even taken place yet.
And the old west standoff situation is different where everyone has to draw. The analog to this would be for you to wait until the other guy starts to draw before deciding to draw yourself, and yet somehow you start your draw action before he does. It's totally up to the DM, but it's a little cinematic for my tastes.
I wouldn't allow it. Initiative is there for a reason. You can only ready an action on someone if you get a jump on people.
So you either surprise someone (and get a surprise round) or you win initiative. Otherwise, you're out of luck.
Always remember that this could be used against you.
Okay, so picture this: your players are facing off against a bunch of orcs, one of whom has drawn, loaded and cocked a crossbow and is pointing it at the wizard. The players say they are not going to do anything, just wait to see what the orcs do. The orc with the crossbow fires at the wizard. So you declare that everyone rolls initiative, and the wizard beats the crossbow orc. Are you then going to allow him to go back in time and take an action based on what he now knows the orc is going to do but has not done yet after having stated that he was going to wait and see what happens, or are you going to treat his declaration that he would wait and see what happens as a delay action for his first round of combat?
The rules don't seem to be clear if you can. For example, if I have a crossbow pointed at somebody and ready an action to shoot if he draws a weapon, is that allowable?
Going back to the OP. Pointing a crossbow at someone IS a part of combat, so roll initiative. Then you can do whatever you want in initiative order.
When you don't know what to do? Roll initiative and declare actions.
Nobody there to roll against? Fine, you win initiative and can ready an action.
It's up to the DM.
Think of a western standoff. Everyone's looking at each, hand on holstered pistol. Initiative COULD represents that supernatural quickness to draw and fire the gun first, even if the other guy attempted to draw and shoot first.
Surprise rounds only happen when the "target" is unaware of you.
In either case, if combat is unavoidable a smart DM would make everyone roll initiative. You then have your choice of readied action, pass, or attack.
If it is a standoff, I agree, roll initiative.
Nope, because even if it's drawn and ready, it doesn't mean the person holding it is aware, focused, and what not. Also, if you're pointed it at me, I may be "fast enough" to react before you can shoot. Thus initiative has to be rolled, it's why it exists.
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If the person is declaring a readied action, then I would argue they are aware and focused. Perhaps so focused that they take a circumstance penalty to perception checks against anyone other than the readied target.
Readied action is more than just, having your weapon pulled out and loaded. Think of a swat team that just broke down the door, stormed in and has an assault rifle pointed at you with a finger on the trigger. If you think you can pull a gun out, aim it, and pull the trigger before they fill you full of holes your are dreaming. Readied action are about intent. I think it is pretty safe to say that is someone has a loaded crossbow pointed at you, and is just waiting for you to make their day, they can pull the trigger before your weapon even clears its sheath. There are exceptions, but those are just that, characters with abilities that are the exception to the rules.
Now if someone has a loaded crossbow, but no readied action. Then, they are not aware and focused, so normal initiative roll.
What about a situation where someone is standing right behind a corner with loaded crossbow, ready to attack the first thing that moves around the corner. The adventurers are being very cautious, moving slowly and with alerted senses. They are ready for a fight, and basically imagine a threat could be waiting behind any corner, but they don0t know EXACTLY if and what is waiting right behind that corner.
The crossbowman has rolled a perception roll, and heard the party approaching. Does he get a surprise round? Or should I have the party roll to detect the immobile crossbowman standing on the other side of the corner holding breath?
If the person is declaring a readied action, then I would argue they are aware and focused. Perhaps so focused that they take a circumstance penalty to perception checks against anyone other than the readied target.
Readied action is more than just, having your weapon pulled out and loaded. Think of a swat team that just broke down the door, stormed in and has an assault rifle pointed at you with a finger on the trigger. If you think you can pull a gun out, aim it, and pull the trigger before they fill you full of holes your are dreaming. Readied action are about intent. I think it is pretty safe to say that is someone has a loaded crossbow pointed at you, and is just waiting for you to make their day, they can pull the trigger before your weapon even clears its sheath. There are exceptions, but those are just that, characters with abilities that are the exception to the rules.
Now if someone has a loaded crossbow, but no readied action. Then, they are not aware and focused, so normal initiative roll.
In this example with the OP I'd then rule since the readied action was to fire if a weapon was drawn, the crossbow would be surprised and flat-footed if the opponent decided to charge instead or attempt an unarmed trip or any other action that didn't trigger the crossbow. Speak if the readied action was NOT triggered the crossbow automatically loses initiative.