The recent Knowledge (local) thread reminded me of this project I had been working on for a while, so I thought I might toss it up here for feedback and ideas.
The Premise
Knowledge skills have two uses. They provide in-game knowledge and character background (roleplaying), and specific uses and bonuses (mechanics).
I propose that the roleplaying aspect of the various Knowledge skills are equivocal. It's value in representing the character's background, and usage for in-game knowledge, are highly dependent on the DM or Published adventure, and thus unmeasurably equal as a base.
Therefore, we can take a look at the mechanics of each skill to see if they are worth it.
Basically, is there a point to putting more than cursory ranks into the skill to indicate you are very knowledgeable at a certain subject. Going with the idea that Einstein was a 5th level expert*, why bother putting 20 levels of skillpoints into a Knowledge skill unless it's giving you some kind of mechanical benefit?
So here's the plan... make every Knowledge skill mechanically "worth taking", since there's equal roleplaying reason to be good at Knowledge (history) as there is Knowledge (arcana).
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Knowledge Skill Changes
First of all, here's my proposed revised list of Knowledge skills for standard fantasy D&D:
Mull over it a little. Notice the glaring absence of some skills, and the odd new ones. I will go into detail on each skill in a bit, however first I want to discuss what types of things Knowledge skills can be used for.
Knowledge Checks
Each knowledge skill will be capable of doing a couple of the following varied types of checks. All of them share the in-game knowledge checks, so it's just a list of checks that give some kind of measurable benefit.
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~ Magical Knowledge ~
You may roll a check to recognize aspects of an associated magic type (Arcane, Divine, Nature, Alchemy, etc). Checks include the following:
Recognize a caster of a magic type
Recognize aspects of symbols
Know rituals, tenets or behaviors
Know important persons
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~ Creature Knowledge ~
You may roll a check to determine a creature's abilites and weaknesses.
Use standard 3e/Pf rules. DC 10 + CR, etc.
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~ Location Knowledge ~
You may roll a check to determine geographical information. Checks include the following:
Identify a creature's ethnicity or accent
Recognize regional terrain features
Know or determine the location of the nearest community or noteworthy site
Recognize hazards in the region ()
Individual skills will allow checks for terrain only, people only, or both.
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~ Contact Knowledge ~
You may roll a check to locate a contact of a particular profession. Higher rolls locates a higher level contact (better skills/abilities).
Checks include:
Locate a potential new contact
Locate another person's contact (
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Knowledge Skills
Without further ado, here are the full description of each subskill.
~ Arcana ~
All things arcane and mysterious in nature are the purview of Knowledge Arcana. Cryptic symbols or phrases, magical beasts and ancient mysteries.
Magical Types: Arcane, Alchemy
Creature Types: Dragons, Magical
Contacts: Arcane
Additional (DC) Checks: Identify materials manufactured by magic. Identify the spells cast using a specific material component.
~ Common ~
Your common knowledge is aptly named, as it indicates what you know about urban and humanoid things. Laws, customs, traditions, and any general "goings-on" that the lay person might encounter (this includes currently established rulership, however not it's heraldry).
Creature Types: Humanoid, Goblinoid
Locations: Urban (terrain and people)
Contacts: Common (commoner or expert) and Aristocratic
~ Dungeoneering ~
To know that which goes bump underground, the hiding place of the aberrant creature. From spotting a cave-in, to spotting a.. nest?.. of ooze territory, a dungeoneer comes in handy for any spelunking adventure.
Creature Types: Aberrations, Oozes
Locations: Mountain (terrain and people), Underground (terrain and people)
Additional (DC) Checks: Cause a collapse or fortify against a collapse (flat DC or opposed checks). Determine metal, mineral or stone usage. Siege tunneling checks.
~ Engineering ~
Construction, demolition, and general knowledge of architecture and buildings. Know how to fortify a building or door, or learn how to better tear one down.
Magical Types: Artificing
Creature Types: Constructs
Locations: Buildings (terrain only)
Additional (DC) Checks: Use this skill check, with tools and time, to replace the Strength check for breaking down a door. Fortify a door's break DC. Mechanical Trap awareness (similar to recognizing a hazard location check. Replaces Reflex save on traps). Siege engine usage and creation .
~ History ~
Heraldry and history go hand in hand. The history of a nation, it's wars, advancement, and even decline and extinction can be traced through the decisions made by it's rulers.
Locations: Ancient/Historical (terrain), Royal locations (people)
Contacts: Royalty or servants of royalty
Additional (DC) Checks: Alter the Legend Lore spell to use Knowledge (History) to determine information, with a varying bonus to the check granted by the spell (similar to how the Identify spell was changed). Someone trained in the knowledge skill may gain lots of information even if he only has rumors to start with.
~ Nature ~
All things found in the natural world, beyond the walls and cultivated lands of the humanoid cities.
Magical Types: Nature
Creature Types: Animals, Aquatic, Fey, Giant, Insectoid, Monstrous, Plant, Reptilian, Swarm
Locations: Cold/Desert/Plains, Forest/Jungle, Swamp/Water (all are terrain and people)
Contacts: Druidic
~ Planes ~
If you want to know anything about anywhere other than the Material plane, you'll need this skill. While it is small in it's scope, the hazards and abilities of the terrain and denizens of the planes are very important.
Creature Types: Outsiders (Alignment and Elemental)
Locations: Any plane other than Material (terrain and people)
Contacts: Planar
Additional (DC) Checks: Possible planar spell uses (planar binding/ally, contact other plane, etc), altered in similar fashion to the Identify spell (requires check, spell grants bonus).
~ Religion ~
Know all things about religions, such as gods, traditions, or holy symbols.
Magical Types: Divine
Creature Types: Undead
Locations: Religious (terrain)
Contacts: Religious
Additional (DC) Checks: Used for (or grants bonus to) Turn undead and Rebuke undead feats.
~ Tactics ~
Learn about combat strategies, both on the large and small scale. Maneuver forces and recognize a good ambush spot when you see one.
Contacts: Mercenary, Military
Additional (DC) Checks: Negate a surprise round (opposed by stealth or tactics check). Create an ambush (opposed by perception or tactics check). Create cover. Tactical maneuver in war (be a general!).
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Variables
Finally, the key to having the knowledge about locations, contacts, etc, all work: regional factors.
Knowledge checks have an added regional obscurity penalty on checks. Any checks made to determine specific information regarding an individual person, place, or organization, are influenced by how well you know the area.
If you've lived your whole life in a particular area, location and contacts knowledge (and possibly even magical or creature knowledge) have lowered DCs.
Possibly low enough to bring a lot of knowledge even for untrained checks (brings DCs down to 10).
On the other hand, traveling across the ocean to an unknown continent will likely increase DCs into a range where it'll be tough for a newcomer to know even basic knowledge.
Spending time in an area (possibly faster with Gather Information checks, or time spent in a local library/with a locally knowledgeable person) will reduce this penalty.
It's also great for new background heavy feats:
Traveling Past
Your past involved moving many times, to different regions, or much traveling.
Benefit: Your regional variable is reduced by one step from what your regular regional knowledge would be.
Lived in a Library
You used to live in, or spend much of your waking hours, in a library. Your ecclesiastic reading habits gives you a broad knowledge about history and nobility.
Benefit: Your regional variable is reduced by one step for knowledge history checks.
You also gain a general +2 bonus to all knowledge checks, and can make DC 15 checks untrained.
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Whew... that was long. I apologize for that. If you've had the mental fortitude to read this far (and take in all my side changes), I'd be thrilled to hear of any feedback you might have.
Oh, one thing to note.
Some creature types should be weighted differently when balancing the skills. Nature has a ton of locations and creatures, but they are all fairly repetitive, and the creatures tend to lack any strange or weird-but-deadly abilities that you'd want to run checks for.
On the other hand, while Common has only Humanoid and Goblinoid, in my change with creature types, that covers about anything that has a head, two arms and two legs. Quite the list actually.
Well, I routinely add War/Tactics/Strategy to the Knowledge selections and rolls Local & Gather Info together to make Streetwise. The idea of Common Knowledge is interesting, but doesn't it obviate the whole point of DC 10 checks?
Well, I routinely add War/Tactics/Strategy to the Knowledge selections and rolls Local & Gather Info together to make Streetwise. The idea of Common Knowledge is interesting, but doesn't it obviate the whole point of DC 10 checks?
Common is replacing Local in name only. It's still the skill you use to know about humanoids and urban stuff. It's knowledge about common, everyday stuff for people, as opposed to untrained knowledge in any particular field.
You'll still use DC 10 untrained checks for every knowledge skill.The change in name was done to move away from the "regional" feeling of the word Local. Since the variable can change what is or isn't "locally known", it would be better to have a name that means "everyday stuff for the civilized world".
If anyone can think of a better name than Common, I'd be open to suggestions...
Using Gather Information to gain knowledge is totally acceptable, however that takes time and effort. Knowledge skills are supposed to represent remembering something you already know, and are effectively an instant check.
So my feelings would be:
Streetwise = Actively learning something you didn't already know.
Knowledge = See if you remember something you already know.
On a side note, I have been thinking of adding a Research skill to the game. Both for learning new things that you failed to know with the Knowledge skill (via books, library, etc, instead of people), but also for possibly making some rules on creating new spells as a caster.
Don't add a research skill to the game. It's of very limited use. Instead, grant a +2 circumstance bonus to a Knowledge check when you're in a library, which you can retry every time interval that you fail.
Well, it would be for more than just a pseudo gather information use, as I'm considering adding rules for creating spells, changing a spell known as a spontaneous caster, etc, and tying it to this new skill.
I guess I could roll that function into spellcraft... but with concentration checks now part of it, isn't it starting to feel like a fairly loaded skill?
You are correct, sir. I had forgotten that... and also, somehow it has yet to come up in gaming, so it goes to show how often this skill is used.
I think part of my bloat feelings on Spellcraft are to do with the new crafting of magic items now, and my own reduction in knowledge arcana uses being moved into spellcraft.
*Edit: Yes, I understand that I'm creating my own proposed problems here. Probably not quite irony, but close enough.