Golarion is analogous to earth in a wonderful, and subtle way, more taking inspiriation from cultures than plopping them into a fantasy world.
So in order to help me do the same I began to think about, and put together, the general thematic inspirations so I could read up on the mythology of that swathe of the world, see what armor and weaponry looked like in that region, know what languages to use to make up fantastic words in those places, etc.
So, firstly I got a rough world map in my head. Then for the purpose of this post put it on earth. Golarion isn’t earth, and my knowledge of the world past the Inner Sea is as sketchy as yours, so think of this more along the lines of the early explorers and the Fra Mauro, or Ptolemy maps.
The Vudrani are based on the people and myths of the Indian subcontinent, and a good example language is Hindi or Sanskrit, and South Asian/Hindu mythology is prevalent.
Of the various Tian peoples, the Tian-La seem to be based of the steppe dwelling tribes north of the Himalyas, especially the Mongols.
The Tian Shu, inhabitants of Qin's successor states and the various Crater Lands kingdoms seem to be Chinese. The Tian Sing are southeast asian, ala Thailand/the Khmer peoples/Angar Wat, I reckon. The Tian Min are openly regarded as analogous to Japanese peoples. The Tian Dan are a bit of a mystery, but I went with the assumptian that they were similar to the inhabitants of 1st millenium Korea.
Note: Minkai seems to be the archipelago stretching from south Tian Xia to Vudra, so I moved Japan south. Sarusan is probably much further away from Tian Xia than Asia-Australia, hence the big arrow. The long blue line is where there may be an ocean separating Tian Xia and Casmaron. (Hopefully, I think that would be cool). The black section in central Casmaron is the Pit of Gormuz area, eastern part of which represents Ninshabur. I'm not sure if Arcadia is the name for the south/meso-american Analogue aswell, so I didn't expand it to be so.
Now, lets zoom in a little, to the Inner Sea region. A big thing of import is, I think, this area is not an analogue to Dark Ages Europe, and its not entirely Medieval Europe. It’s more like an analogue of an Alt-history where neither Hellenic Greece nor Rome collapsed as completely, so the Dark Ages never happened.
Taldor can be considered analogous to Hellenic Greece. Their empire spread, for awhile, then Cheliax rebelled and took most of their non-Taldan provinces. However they never took Taldor, so they were allowed a long slow decline and developed cultural similarities to late Rennaisance France, in terms of the nobility anyway.
-Language: Ancient Greek; Mythology: Ancient Greek
Cheliax is the analogue of Italy and Rome then, however it never fell to barbarians, so the Dark Ages never happened, instead 100 odd years ago Aroden died and the empire broke into pieces, but each piece is a whole nation, so civilisation never really imploded. This is a big point of difference. No dark ages, and civilisation being around for longer means that Golarion is more similar to Early Rennaisane Europe in most ways excepting warfare, as military science is very middle ages, but beside that there are printing presses, glass factories, rare spectacles, a burgeoning mercantile middle class in most civilised nations.
-Language: Italian, Latin; Mythology: Roman, Mediterranian
Andoran is hard to peg, and is not entirely analogous to any European nation. Ethnically and culturally they are a mix of Taldan and Cheliaxian peoples, but with their own unique veneer of freedom and democracy.
North of the inner sea, nations are far less likely to have analogues, but the ethnicities still do.
Varisians are inspired in many ways by the Romani, and Ustalav is very Translyvanian. (Aside: The Shoanti have very loose elemants of Native American culture, but seem to look much more like North Africans, and live in a terrain not really found on earth. So not really analgous.)
-Language: Romanian; Mythology: Ustalav-Classical Horror (vampires, werewolves, etc.)
The Ulfen are Nordic-esque peoples, seemily descended from the Iobardians of North Casmaron.
-Language: Norwegian, other Scandinavian; Mythology: Norse
The Kellid tribes are loosely based on Cimmerians, who are looslely based on the Celts. Though made strange by the prehistoric fauna of the Realm of the Mammoth Lords, and Super-Science of Numeria.
-Language: Celtic, Irish, Scottish; Mythology: Celtic, Conan inspired, barbaric Sword&Sorcery
All of the above feature elements of general D&D/Tolkien-esque european-inspired high fantasy, though often with an amount of its original mythology and flavour restored, and more s&s than straight high fantasy alone.
The Keleshite people are Persian/Iranian largely, with Arabian influences too.
-Language: Arabian, Persian; Mythology: Middle East
Garundi people are North Africans, Egyptians is Osirion, Saharan peoples in Thuvia, etc, and Nex/Geb may be slightly inspired by powerful Ethiopian kingdoms like Aksumite.
-Language: Egyptian, Nubian, Cushitic Languages; Mythology: North African and Ancient Egyptian
Mwangi are people from Congo, and Central/Western Africa.
-Language: Various Central African, e.g. Bantu, other Niger-Congo languages; Mythology: Central African, e.g. Ga-Gorib.
I have thrown assimilated peoples under the name of their dominators, so Nidalese and Isgeri people are covered in the Chelaxian region. Similar to the various tribes and peoples encompassed by the term ‘Mwangi’.
Note also that these aren't just analogues, its more that the mythology and cultures of certain peoples inspired them and the places they live, the monsters they face, etc.
Finally, I’ve seen it written that elves, dwarves and gnomes are mainly found in the Inner Sea Region, particularily Avistan. Now this may change to allow people to play the core races in more exotic lands, but I hope not. It was suggested instead that places like Vudra and Tian Xia would have more culturally appropriate demi-human playable races. And I’m all for the idea of kitsune rather than elves in Minkai!
Splendid work!
Very interesting stuff! Makes me look forward to the day a world map for Golarion is finally released.
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I like the idea of there being yet more pseudo-Africa down below the current map of Garund. In absence of anything specific, I'd just throw the continent of Nyambe-tande down there, and perhaps use Kara-Tur as the various Tien locales, and Al-Qadim as the Greater Kelish territories. I've got all these maps lying around.
Maztica would probably be a good fit for Arcadia, but I never got around to getting that set.
The long blue line is where there may be an ocean separating Tian Xia and Casmaron. (Hopefully, I think that would be cool).
Mona confirmed that a few days ago. He also mentioned a Tian colony state on the east shores of Casmaron, which is why the Inner Sea cultures still think of Tian as "the east."
I'm not sure if Arcadia is the name for the south/meso-american Analogue aswell, so I didn't expand it to be so.
Come to think, I'm not sure if we know whether or not there is a "South Arcadia" area. I hope there is.
Very well thought out, nice work there.
The long blue line is where there may be an ocean separating Tian Xia and Casmaron. (Hopefully, I think that would be cool).Mona confirmed that a few days ago. He also mentioned a Tian colony state on the east shores of Casmaron, which is why the Inner Sea cultures still think of Tian as "the east."
Woo!!!
And that would be kaldalay, yeah?
I didn't want to put to many markings within Casmaron, as its the next most detailed continent but much of it is hard decipher positionally. I was thinking of Kaldalay though! Damn! Maybe I'll add it later!
Thanks for the kind words one and all! Any more imput is welcome too! Especially that of slobbering black dragons, fiendish tyranosaurs, hidoeus cyclops, improbable umber hulks, hissing red dragons, avatars of Abadar, Ezren or the terrfiying and almighty Stevens of Lisa, sunderer of heavens. :p
Any places in Casmaron that would be a good idea, are great suggestions, since I'll probably go ahead and add kaldalay and physically move japan to join up with the rest of minkai.
Good work, want more.
Maybe once you're further along, you can get someone to do an old-style "best guess" type map! This is rather like the cartographers of antiquity piecing together "eyewitness" reports. Which means it is awesome. And it means you needn't worry too much about "official" accuracy to have a very beautiful map made.
Also, shifting Sarusan over to the other side was a nice touch. I'd like to know if there is a south america analog at all... or maybe that's part of arcadia... or maybe that was Azlant.
I have to say, I am happy that Tian Xia is its own continent, that sea is really helping to make the global map look radically different from our own, something I always like in fantasy maps. Just different enough.
I'll keep watching for more.
EDIT: in fact, I encourage anyone who feels like it to make a version of any one of these maps. The inconsistencies will only lend them authenticity!
Thank you, maybe someone could ask in Paizo Chat tonight? I have an exam tomorrow and can't afford to stay up until 4am+ my time. :D
I was thinking of doing an old timey map actually, might be an idea, sure look cool!
Director of Brand Strategy
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The following map was creating following the dubious reports of Pathfinder Cima Dolori.
They have been compiled and redrawn from his, badly, hand drawn notes under the orders of Venture-Captain Eliza Petulengro, by the esteemed, and ever patient, Pathfinder Kibir Usak Ibn Oglan.
As awesome as the original image you made was, THIS is by far the coolest map I've seen in a long, long time.
Nice map man, very nice
While that map obviously rocks... I formally request higher resolution and more details!
Too awesome.
As awesome as the original image you made was, THIS is by far the coolest map I've seen in a long, long time.
I concur! Please move to the head of the class.
I concur! Please move to the head of the class.
As awesome as the original image you made was, THIS is by far the coolest map I've seen in a long, long time.
Yay, Gold stars!
Well Well Done! And yoinked for some upcoming discussions.
I concur! Please move to the head of the class.
As awesome as the original image you made was, THIS is by far the coolest map I've seen in a long, long time.
+1!!! Very nice!!!
Heheh, you know you've done well when they start taking your maps!
Heheh, you know you've done well when they start taking your maps!
Indeed
Indeed, excellent work, and hopefully these maps will prove useful for Wes and the other designers!
Well Well Done! And yoinked for some upcoming discussions.
Awesome!
And thanks everyone! I'm going to make some alterations and additions, but I don't want to clutter it up.
I have to add Iobardia, and probably some tags to Tian Xia. What else is good?
Garund needs a label. :)
Not sure about your placement of Azlant, I'd assumed it'd be closer to old Thassilon, but I can't recall if its location has been quantified.
The voyage from northern Avistan to Arcadia is a four-thousand-mile island hop, iirc, implying islands to hop.
Casmaron is consistently described as a "supercontinent," implying that it's plenty large even though Tian Xia isn't part of it. I keep thinking of it as Asia-sized at least. Maybe it reaches further south than real-world India?
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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The following was recompiled and relabelled, following the arrival of further, lost, journals of Pathfinder Cima Dolori, Formerly of Westcrown.
Through great personal effort, I present you with,
Everlasting Glory,
Kibir Usak Ibn Oglan
This is great, of course. Really awesome to see it drawn out like this.
Three quick suggestions:
1) It's "IOBARIA" not "IOBARDIA".
2) Azlant should be larger, and should have some islands that the Vikings could plausibly use to "island hop" from Avistan to Arcadia.
3) There are a couple of tags you could probably add fairly easily, originally (and perhaps only) found on page 153 of the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting. Kaskkari (a rough analogue of ancient Assyria) is currently (in my head) southeast of Ninshabur. Both are on the massive inland Castrovin Sea, which also forms the southern (and perhaps part of the southwest) border of Iobaria. Iblydos, a sort of play on ancient Greece, is probably best located on the islands southeast of Kelesh. Also, Kaladay is misspelled on your map, and should be much larger, dominating the upper right hand corner of Casmaron. It shares a border with Vudra to the south.
Again, really nice work. We will definitely get some use from this in the office!
--Erik Mona
(Who Made Up Most of these Names)
The following was recompiled and relabelled, following the arrival of further, lost, journals of Pathfinder Cima Dolori, Formerly of Westcrown.
Through great personal effort, I present you with,
Everlasting Glory,
Kibir Usak Ibn OglanThis is great, of course. Really awesome to see it drawn out like this.
Three quick suggestions:
1) It's "IOBARIA" not "IOBARDIA".
2) Azlant should be larger, and should have some islands that the Vikings could plausibly use to "island hop" from Avistan to Arcadia.
3) There are a couple of tags you could probably add fairly easily, originally (and perhaps only) found on page 153 of the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting. Kaskkari (a rough analogue of ancient Assyria) is currently (in my head) southeast of Ninshabur. Both are on the massive inland Castrovin Sea, which also forms the southern (and perhaps part of the southwest) border of Iobaria. Iblydos, a sort of play on ancient Greece, is probably best located on the islands southeast of Kelesh. Also, Kaladay is misspelled on your map, and should be much larger, dominating the upper right hand corner of Casmaron. It shares a border with Vudra to the south.
Again, really nice work. We will definitely get some use from this in the office!
--Erik Mona
(Who Made Up Most of these Names)
MWAHA!!!
Excellent! Dammit about Iobaria, I could have sworn I checked several times, and still got it wrong.
Anyway, consider map markIII under production, thanks to this fantastic information!
Thank you!
EDIT: Also, does anyone know what the name of the ocean between Tian Xia and Casmaron is?
I give you,
Updated and transcribed to closer match the notes and journals of Pathfinder Cima Dolori.
Awesome!
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Director of Brand Strategy
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I give you,
Updated and transcribed to closer match the notes and journals of Pathfinder Cima Dolori.
Now if only we had an idea of what was in the southern hemisphere. As far as I can tell from previous discussions, the given map doesn't even stretch as far south as the equator.
SWEET, VP! Thanks!
Wow, this thread is FTW!
This makes me want to play the Terra Incognita Adventure Path — the one where the PC's objective over 16 levels is to chart the known and unknown world...
I can't claim credit though, it was my player's idea when I showed him the map.
Anyway, "Terra Incognita" would perhaps work in place of "Unchartable" on the next version.
Also, I want to see some other people's versions, lest this one be downgraded to "accurate".
Anyway, "Terra Incognita" would perhaps work in place of "Unchartable" on the next version.
Unchartable is more so a reference to Sarusan resisting being mapped somehow, its difficult to pin down.
Again very nice work.Well done
Indeed...this thread keeps getting better and better!
Hey Vagrant! How about a map showing what YOU think the southern hemisphere looks like?
I for one would like to see your take on southern Garund. It's hard to believe Garundi or Keleshite explorers haven't mapped that region out by 4708.
Come on, show us what lies beyond the Field of Maidens! ;-)
Hey Vagrant! How about a map showing what YOU think the southern hemisphere looks like?
That's what I'm thinking... there are no wrong answers with this kind of map. This one is already more plausible looking than many historical maps of Earth.
seriously, kudos