|
Ok, so one of my favorite characters, Hauruk of the White Hand (Half Orc Barbarian 3/Half-Orc Paragon 3/Fighter 2) has just come into his destiny by way of a quest. He's just discovered he's a long lost scion of a famous ruler and has just been handed the proverbial sword in the stone. (Literally the king's shade came out and handed it to him, after running through the adventure "Eye of the Beholder") My Beloved Spouse (Kobold chorus: "We love you!") was really not expecting me to want to run with the "You're the last in the line for the crown" plot hook, let alone to dig in and start planning how to bring the country back from the brink of disaster.
The country is called Hoehenaire (though I might be spelling that wrong) and the ancestor's name is Llewelyn the Just. A Half-elven guy who was actually pretty cool and united these provinces under the title of "The Bright Empire". He died, horrifically, when a Demon Prince cursed him with a plague and that plague went on to decimate the populace (literal definition for decimate, as in left 10% alive in its wake). Fast forward about 250 years. The Bright Empire has gone to civil war and ripped itself asunder. Plague was followed by war followed by famine followed by invasion and then more war. Oh, and then the eschaton arrives and devestates the rest of the continent, blights the dominant race of the world (Elves), a few Gods have died and in general all heck has broken loose. In the midst of this Hauruck gets the sword and decides to run with this whole "I'm the last and best hope for this region" schtick.
His first real challenge was to verify a bit more about his lineage. Then he's going all whirlwind tour to drum up support for his reign. Then trying to smooth over diplomacy with the neighbors. Then establish his own line by having an heir. Then happily ever after.
To this point, he's found out that he is, in fact, a scion of the Llewelyn by speaking with a Diviner. He went in search of an old war buddy, who turned out to be dead. In doing so, he found some refugees that were in dire straits and got to help them out AND smack down a bunch of local bandit raiders. Upon returning to the Keep on the Borderlands, our friendly party Druid had a visit with her crazy-insane-wonderful Auntie Baeren who is a high-ranking member of the Parliament of the Green. She brought her 'Apprentice' with direct and explicit instructions to confirm Hauruck as King with the full backing of the Parliament of the Green. She then wildshaped and flew off before we could get a word in edgewise.
Next step? Take the refugees back to the capital, drop off refugees after plant growthing the snot out of the farmlands around the capital, and then hit the rest of the country at large to continue building support.
Now that I've said all that, I'm curious what experience other players have had with empire building, country rulership and general landholding. What you've liked about it, what you thought needed improvement, and general feedback on this aspect of my favorite game.
Cheers!
M
With the wealth of rules expansions on the market I have always been stunned at the lack of products devoted to expanding this part of the game. Out of curiosity.... do you roleplay most of the empire building or do you use a specific rule system? I know of a few that tackle the topic. Of course there is Birthright..... Strongholds and Dynasties.... Realms of Blood.....
Birthright was perhaps my favorite campaign of all time. My players loved tending to their domains and the adventure hooks were easily developed because the players were so invested in their realms.
I absolutely loathe reading rules but I almost wish someone would develop an extensive domain management system, complete with farming, mining, city expansions.
I also wish someone would offer a similiar product that explored guild operations. For example costs for building a basement training facility for the theives guild. Recruitment costs. Tables the players would roll on to determing monthly income from smuggling operations and so on. A system to monitor how much attention the guild has garnered from the city guard. Has anyone done anything along these lines?
|
|
Has anyone done anything along these lines?
Not that I've seen, but I would agree that I would LOVE to have such a thing in print. I'm guessing that there will be SOME rules for that sort of thing in the Kingmaker AP, but that's a bit far out along the time axis to really get excited about just yet.
There is, of course, always the rules from the AD&D 1e DMG. I'm pretty sure Gary had some wonderful stuff to contribute on the subject. Mostly because I'm sure he thought of EVERYTHING there was to think of about D&D. EVER.
I'll ask my Beloved Spouse (Kobold chorus: "We love you!") this afternoon at lunch.
AEG put out a source book called Empire, quoted from the back cover:
"Claim the throne of an ancient kingdom and turn its vast resources to your own ends. Lead a massive legion of warriors into battle. Crush your foes, scatter them before you, and carve your name into history. Empire provides all the rules and guidelines you need to transform your character from wandering hero to mighty lord. Empire introduces rules for managing a tiny barony or sprawling empire, with details for running battles with thousands of troops on each side.
Mass combat rules for epic scale warfare
Guidelines for running political campaigns with the d20 system
New classes and prestige classes
Sample units and foes
A complete system for managing kingdoms"
|
|
AEG put out a source book called Empire, quoted from the back cover:
"Claim the throne of an ancient kingdom and turn its vast resources to your own ends. Lead a massive legion of warriors into battle. Crush your foes, scatter them before you, and carve your name into history. Empire provides all the rules and guidelines you need to transform your character from wandering hero to mighty lord. Empire introduces rules for managing a tiny barony or sprawling empire, with details for running battles with thousands of troops on each side.
Mass combat rules for epic scale warfare
Guidelines for running political campaigns with the d20 system
New classes and prestige classes
Sample units and foes
A complete system for managing kingdoms"
*holy grail music*
Look! On yon parapet!
Empire had some nice ideas, but I much prefer the Birthright as a game of empires :)
AEG put out a source book called Empire,
out of curiosity have you ever used it or known someone who has?
out of curiosity have you ever used it or known someone who has?AEG put out a source book called Empire,
Own it, read it, like it, but never used it because nobody in my past groups ever wanted to build their own empire in the time between when I got the book and now.
|
|
Own it, read it, like it, but never used it because nobody in my past groups ever wanted to build their own empire in the time between when I got the book and now.out of curiosity have you ever used it or known someone who has?AEG put out a source book called Empire,
Would you be willing to quickly outline a few of the things you like about it? The review my wife found was... useless.
Side Note: Decimation actually left 90% alive (kill 1 in 10).
Warpath is mostly about mass combat, but includes some quick n' easy campaign rules.
|
Side Note: Decimation actually left 90% alive (kill 1 in 10).
Warpath is mostly about mass combat, but includes some quick n' easy campaign rules.
Yeah, to further elaborate Hank's explanation, decimation was originally a specific punishment meted out in the Roman army, basically punishment to the whole unit. Everyone's divided into groups of 10, y'all draw straws, etc. and odd man out gets to be beaten to death by his nine comrades, hence the 10% dying. Something like that. Fun times.
I also wish someone would offer a similiar product that explored guild operations. For example costs for building a basement training facility for the theives guild. Recruitment costs. Tables the players would roll on to determing monthly income from smuggling operations and so on. A system to monitor how much attention the guild has garnered from the city guard. Has anyone done anything along these lines?
I can't vouch for quality, but, like Empire, AEG also released Guilds.
I can't vouch for quality, but, like Empire, AEG also released Guilds.
I've been waffling back and forth on purchasing both of them. I wish I could find someone who could give me a solid review! Guess I should just part with the few bucks.
I also wish someone would offer a similiar product that explored guild operations. For example costs for building a basement training facility for the theives guild. Recruitment costs. Tables the players would roll on to determing monthly income from smuggling operations and so on. A system to monitor how much attention the guild has garnered from the city guard. Has anyone done anything along these lines?
2nd Ed Thieves Handbook
2nd Ed Thieves Handbook
I just dug through the closet and amazingly enough that's one of the few I don't own. Do you know how detailed it was? Just a couple pages devoted to the topic?
aha! I found my old copy.... wish it was a little more in depth but it has the framework I'm looking for. I wonder if I should dig out Den of Thieves while I'm at it?
aha! I found my old copy.... wish it was a little more in depth but it has the framework I'm looking for. I wonder if I should dig out Den of Thieves while I'm at it?
It runs the mechanics of a guild fairly well enough - especially an NPC guild, however I found it a little less than helpful when it came to setting up a guild from the beginning.
It doesn't really price out the initial overheads, or go into recruiting members etc. It was very NPC focused, or assumed the PC was sort of taking over an established venture.
That's what I found with Guilds. It has interesting ideas on how to run a guild, but not how to start or maintain one (that I could find). It is also clearly missing a random events table.
That's what I found with Guilds. It has interesting ideas on how to run a guild, but not how to start or maintain one (that I could find). It is also clearly missing a random events table.
Heh.
The same publisher probably saved that table for Toolbox, an entire table of random table awesomeness.
Ultimate Toolbox, which is system-independant got released in early 2009.
I think I'll give that one a miss, even so :)
Whilst it would be great to see a really good supplement dealing with a range of 'how to do X - from Guilds to Temples', I am suspecting that most gamers wouldn't really be that interested in it.
Then again maybe Im just getting jaded on these boards when surrounded by '...but spending 2000gp is one less item, you aren't optimised!"
Personally I dig it when players do world building in my campaigns
Whilst it would be great to see a really good supplement dealing with a range of 'how to do X - from Guilds to Temples', I am suspecting that most gamers wouldn't really be that interested in it.
Then again maybe Im just getting jaded on these boards when surrounded by '...but spending 2000gp is one less item, you aren't optimised!"
Personally I dig it when players do world building in my campaigns
Some form of organization building was almost the point of every campaign I ran when I was younger. Whether the players were funding their own black market operation, running arms, forging a kingdom, or crafting a merchant empire, a deeper element to the game was present. I was very surprised when I discovered that most people don't play in this fashion. My gaming group was something of a sealed microcosm with few outside players drifting in from other groups.
I will say this.... our particular style of play definitely unified the group. Beyond trying to seize gold and develop the uber version of whatever class was being wielded, the players always had unified goals. I rarely had to worry about group cohesion. The group held a solid vision - to advance the causes of whatever organization was the basis of the campaign.
I read things on the forum and can't help but call one of my high school buddies to discuss such oddities as, "The group I was playing with fell apart because there was no reason for the characters to adventure togther," or another favorite, "We didn't like playing in that campaign world because there are too many high powered NPCs. Why shouldn't they be saving the world?"
It certainly made things easier on me as a gm. The players were invested. Plot hooks were everywhere. I'm disappointed more people don't play in this manner. They'd be more published support otherwise.
ahhh just because I am rambling and feeling sanctimonious....
It doesn't involve too much world building but one of my favorite campaign moments was set in Shatterzone. The players operated a mercenary unit on the fringe and executed some pretty shady contracts for some pretty shady organizations. After a pretty lengthy campaign of running in the underworld they finally reaped enough profit that they wanted to go clean and head back to the core to live the fine life but they found their reputation was so blackened by their past associations and activities that either worlds out right refused to let them land or whatever passed for law enforcement harassed them endlessly.
So they invested the money in a series of Planet Hollywood style theme bars showcasing some of the artifacts they found on the fringe. Caged alien beasts, ancient artifacts, I think the big bads in Shatterzone were called Armagons.... they had one of their skeletons on display. Then they paid a film crew to follow them around and document their adventures, where they basically staged some epic heroic interventions.
The best one was when they disguised themselves as a bizarre group of cult terrorists and hired some pirates who had crossed them at the beginning of the campaign to hijack a luxury cruise liner. When the abortive hijacking went down, the players conveniently showed up in the nick of time to capture and kill all of the pirates, saving the day and the wealthy patrons of the cruise ship. Everything was filmed by the crew that followed them, edited for maximum heroic effect and sold at their restaurant chain for a tidy profit.