Okay this seems like the right place...I hope?
Okay so one of my players decided it was a good idea to cancel on us last night, only he neglected to inform anyone of his decision, now this is the second time he's done this and as the DM and host of our gaming I feel he should be punished in some way as to prevent this from becoming a habit. I don't feel it should be anything to drastic however the problem is that one of his best weapons already got disintegrated and most of his gold got stolen (he's not the only one that ran into trouble like this) and I need them to be at a higher level soon so an exp penalty is out.
So that's the problem and I don't know what to do, any suggestions?
Oh and we only have 4 players including myself so excluding him for any amount of time is out as well.
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Solving out-of-game problems with in-game solutions is a dishonest and overall, bad idea.
If you're upset about him not showing up, you need to talk to him directly, face-to-face, and tell him that you feel it is disrespectful to you and the group when he does not show without warning. Find out what causes him not to show, be it schedule conflicts, unavoidable workcalls, or just lack of interest.
Don't go underhanded about it, because that will only lead to bad blood.
My suggestion, would be to knock him out of the party somehow (kidnapped, falls through a trap door, something)
And proceed to make him earn his way back to the party, making him suffer cruel and horribly agonizing pain along the way (but getting back up to the gear level he needs for the story.)
One good solo session for the dude who missed games (getting his XP back up to where the party was and restoring his gear level) that is difficult and hard and "You know, this wouldn't have happened if you'd just told us you coudln't make it" Might do the trick.
While this a great idea and I would definitely use it for my other players, it wouldn't get the point across to this player who happens to like doing things like this, I was thinking maybe of stripping him of the rest of his gear but as he is a warforged fighter, he really doesn't have much in the way of equipment that can be taken (his armor being his body and all).
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Well my first big piece of advice is SEPARATE out-of-game issues from in-game issues.
Giving an in-game penalty (taking away treasure) for an out-of-game reason is wrong because it can lead to much more detrimental situations. Doing that can result in you losing the whole gaming group. Also, it's not too different from giving an in-game bonus for an out-of-game reason (the DM's girlfriend with the "special" power).
My advice is to talk to the Player. Politely. Out of game.
Just observe that there's only a handful of you and missing even one (for a 1/2 hour or so) really hurts a session. The other Players are devoting quite a few hours of their precious free time to game and it's just not cool to rock that kind of boat.
But -- we all have to remember that scheduling game-time is HARD. The hardest thing about gaming, even harder than finding a great group!
Good luck.
Solving out-of-game problems with in-game solutions is a dishonest and overall, bad idea.
If you're upset about him not showing up, you need to talk to him directly, face-to-face, and tell him that you feel it is disrespectful to you and the group when he does not show without warning. Find out what causes him not to show, be it schedule conflicts, unavoidable workcalls, or just lack of interest.
Don't go underhanded about it, because that will only lead to bad blood.
Seriously I'd listen to TriOmegaZero, his is a very adult and smart way to approach the problem.
Pettiness won't solve any problems.
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Solving out-of-game problems with in-game solutions is a dishonest and overall, bad idea.
If you're upset about him not showing up, you need to talk to him directly, face-to-face, and tell him that you feel it is disrespectful to you and the group when he does not show without warning. Find out what causes him not to show, be it schedule conflicts, unavoidable workcalls, or just lack of interest.
Don't go underhanded about it, because that will only lead to bad blood.
I agree with this completely. You can't solve out of game situations in game. If it is that big a deal to you I suggest you talk to this player. That is the only true solution to your problem. If that doesn't solve the problem, then you'll need to add a player and be prepared to drop this one.
Solving out-of-game problems with in-game solutions is a dishonest and overall, bad idea.
If you're upset about him not showing up, you need to talk to him directly, face-to-face, and tell him that you feel it is disrespectful to you and the group when he does not show without warning. Find out what causes him not to show, be it schedule conflicts, unavoidable workcalls, or just lack of interest.
Don't go underhanded about it, because that will only lead to bad blood.
This is a good point, but being that all he talks about is D&D and his reason for not showing/calling was that it was cold (he only lives about a half a mile from my place)which is a dumb reason for not calling, not to mention we would have given him a ride. Hmm the thing with this guy is he is kind of a stereotypical nerd and he is extremely obsessed with this game (he almost cried when his weapon got destroyed) and is a bit of a rule Nazi, and I know that just talking to him will not get the point across. I don't really want to to punish his character but I just can't think of anything else to do that isn't to extreme and will get the point across.
In addition you can not punish someone for rules that were not expressed, i.e. we all assume you clearly stated what is expected in regards to the appropriate warning if you can not make a game session. I would also advocate applying the rules equally to everyone, so think twice before making something too strict, but defintely don't punish a person in game for out of game behavior.
Ok Mr. Fishy has this, go get a hickory ax handle and ask this "player" to "help" you "get some stuff" out of your car...Mr. Fishy feels he has said enough.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Giving him his own little solo adventure where he has to make some kind of escape after being kidnapped and tortured doesn't sound like punishment, first of all, it sounds like fun.
I will echo the previous sentiments. Don't punish the character for things that the player did out-of-game. It's a bad move and a slippery slope.
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In game, I might suggest asking another player to drone his character until he returns or you could run him in NPC mode. This isn't going to solve your problem with him not showing up, but it will keep the character at the XP you need to him to be. As long as he's okay with the prospect of another player getting him killed, you shouldn't have any trouble. When the player returns, you can all gently rib him about his character's sudden lack of all personality and robotic, almost zombielike, demeanor (provided he didn't already play that way.)
Maybe I'll tell him he can't have any pizza or drink other then water at the next session lol.
If you can't adjust easily to his absences just make him leave a copy of his character at the end of every session, and play it with out him when he is gone. He should not get any xp's for adventures he isn't there for, and no loot. Most players don't like having their character adventure without them at the helm, so maybe he will be more considerate of the group.
BTW, how old is he roughly?
If you can't adjust easily to his absences just make him leave a copy of his character at the end of every session, and play it with out him when he is gone. He should not get any xp's for adventures he isn't there for, and no loot. Most players don't like having their character adventure without them at the helm, so maybe he will be more considerate of the group.
BTW, how old is he roughly?
He's 22
You could let it slip that you're going to advertise for new players.
I had a group that came out of a club of sorts. As the game was "second" in the players priority lists I had many problems with being let down. I really don't think it's personal but at the end of the day you are putting A LOT of work into the sessions, what with prep time and all, so you deserve some respect. I wasn't getting any so I advertised for new players and I now have a great group that's completely independent to the club. Best move I ever made.
Sounds like you could do with an extra player or two.
You could let it slip that you're going to advertise for new players.
I had a group that came out of a club of sorts. As the game was "second" in the players priority lists I had many problems with being let down. I really don't think it's personal but at the end of the day you are putting A LOT of work into the sessions, what with prep time and all, so you deserve some respect. I wasn't getting any so I advertised for new players and I now have a great group that's completely independent to the club. Best move I ever made.
Sounds like you could do with an extra player or two.
One of the biggest problems I'm having with this is that it's really hard to find new players in the area I live in with our playing schedule which revolves around my wife's random work schedule.
I'll repeat what above posters have said:
You can't solve out-of-game-problems in the game.
You just can't do it. And if you consider it for a moment, you'll understand that each in-game putative measure only increases the player's lack of commitment to you and your game. I've had your experience with no-show players before, and it is a matter of personal disrespect for you and your other players.
Imagine things in the context of a party, a club, or some other social gathering dependent on all participants being present, but without any kind of "in game" consequence available. You can admonish the player all you like, but you're only real solution is to get this player to respect your time and effort, and the time of your other players.
If you can't reach that goal, you need to dismiss the player. If you wouldn't invite someone to a house party because you thought they would let you down, you shouldn't invite that person to a game either. Dismissing the player might be hard, but you can play the game with three characters. I have frequently done so, even in pre-written modules.
Knowing the line between People and Characters is the single most important skill that a GM can possess. Once you learn this, there are very few problems in the game that can't be solved. While you can't solve out-of-game problems in the game, you can almost always solve in-game problems out of the game.
Best of luck with this!
We had this problem, two sessions in a row ended up getting cancelled due to last minute cancellations (the player involved had his character plus a cohort, so instead of 5 characters the game would have been down to 3, and would have been minus the cleric and wizard).
What we ended up doing was that character sheets for everyone stays at the host place with the DM, and we set aside a small period at the start of every session (since we catch up for the week, last session and such anyway) for updating such as level up. This has avoided the problem happening again and allows the session to play even without a player present.
You may wish to exclude a character from earning xp while the player is not there, that is optional. Perhaps this would be a case for peer pressure. If you talking to him won't accomplish anything (did you try?) perhaps the rest of the players having a word with him (no blood on the carpet please) about themselves being inconvenienced will do so.
I'll repeat what above posters have said:
You can't solve out-of-game-problems in the game.
You just can't do it. And if you consider it for a moment, you'll understand that each in-game putative measure only increases the player's lack of commitment to you and your game. I've had your experience with no-show players before, and it is a matter of personal disrespect for you and your other players.
Imagine things in the context of a party, a club, or some other social gathering dependent on all participants being present, but without any kind of "in game" consequence available. You can admonish the player all you like, but you're only real solution is to get this player to respect your time and effort, and the time of your other players.
If you can't reach that goal, you need to dismiss the player. If you wouldn't invite someone to a house party because you thought they would let you down, you shouldn't invite that person to a game either. Dismissing the player might be hard, but you can play the game with three characters. I have frequently done so, even in pre-written modules.
Knowing the line between People and Characters is the single most important skill that a GM can possess. Once you learn this, there are very few problems in the game that can't be solved. While you can't solve out-of-game problems in the game, you can almost always solve in-game problems out of the game.
Best of luck with this!
Definitely.... I dropped out of a Ptolus game because I missed a session due to an illness and found out next session that while i was gone, they decided that my character had gotten drunk, defaced a statue and was arrested. Had to pay the fine, and do a few favors for the local constabulary. Nevermind that the character in question while being a gambler was not, nor was ever played as a drinker. I missed one session but the penalties from it lasted through almost 3. Not a fun time. This guy seems like more of a habitual deserter, but punishing him in game is only likely to make it worse.
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This is a good point, but being that all he talks about is D&D and his reason for not showing/calling was that it was cold (he only lives about a half a mile from my place)which is a dumb reason for not calling, not to mention we would have given him a ride. Hmm the thing with this guy is he is kind of a stereotypical nerd and he is extremely obsessed with this game (he almost cried when his weapon got destroyed) and is a bit of a rule Nazi, and I know that just talking to him will not get the point across. I don't really want to to punish his character but I just can't think of anything else to do that isn't to extreme and will get the point across.
This sounds like someone you couldn't pay me enough to game with, but since you have slim pickins in your area, I'd go with the sit down and talk approach.
When I DM, my usual appoach to an absent player is:
First time: Someone else plays their character. They get full xp and treasure, but also run the risk of being played incorrectly or getting killed by accident. Stuff happens, people miss games. This process can be repeated if the player doen't take advantage of the situation and he becomes chronically absent. If he does, then...
Second time: Exclude the character from the game and he doens't get a share of the xp and treasure for that session. Talk to the player about the importance of attending scheduled games. It's not fair to the rest of the players or GM if they skip out and leave them in the lurch, especially if it's a keystone role like fighter of cleric.
Third time: Character sits out of game until they can reasonably rejoin the party...this can be weeks of real time. Tell they player what you've done and give them the option of playing an NPC or just sodding off until the character can rejoin the party.
Anything more than that and they're obviously not committed enough to play regularly. Tell them that they can do guest spots or whatever from time to time, but they are not welcome to rejoin the campaign until they sort themselves out.
We had this problem, two sessions in a row ended up getting cancelled due to last minute cancellations (the player involved had his character plus a cohort, so instead of 5 characters the game would have been down to 3, and would have been minus the cleric and wizard).
What we ended up doing was that character sheets for everyone stays at the host place with the DM, and we set aside a small period at the start of every session (since we catch up for the week, last session and such anyway) for updating such as level up. This has avoided the problem happening again and allows the session to play even without a player present.
You may wish to exclude a character from earning xp while the player is not there, that is optional. Perhaps this would be a case for peer pressure. If you talking to him won't accomplish anything (did you try?) perhaps the rest of the players having a word with him (no blood on the carpet please) about themselves being inconvenienced will do so.
Yes I have tried talking to him about it and he tends to just blow it off like it's no big deal, but the thing is , is that it is a big deal to one of our players who has to drive about 45 min. to get here he was pretty cool with it the first time this happened but he was pretty angry this time and it took me like an hour to talk him out of killing the other players character. Now i don't want to boot anyone from the group as they are all good players and good friends of mine and personally am not as mad about it anymore but the others are still pretty upset. So as I stated before I'm not going to punish the character and to be honest all I have to do is tell his grandmother that he canceled without calling and she will tear him a new one for me, which will be far more satisfying then yelling at him myself.
Solving out-of-game problems with in-game solutions is a dishonest and overall, bad idea.
If you're upset about him not showing up, you need to talk to him directly, face-to-face, and tell him that you feel it is disrespectful to you and the group when he does not show without warning. Find out what causes him not to show, be it schedule conflicts, unavoidable workcalls, or just lack of interest.
Don't go underhanded about it, because that will only lead to bad blood.
TriOmega is dead on. Don't solve out of game problems with in-game punishment. That's silly, no offense. How old is he? Is he just a kid? Or is he grown adult? Depending on his maturity level you need to address him face to face as suggested above. This is how I would approach it: "Hey man listen, this is the like the third time that you've canceled and I am not sure that you realize how much time I put into planning for an adventure where I need everyone's involvement. I can't keep dropping in an NPC or having them put themselves in jeopardy without you helping them out. Do you still enjoy playing the game? If it keeps going I think it might be best if maybe we take a break for a bit. right now, it's just not working." This will either weed him out of the game, or give him a kick in the ass so that he is more diligent.
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Talk to the player. Seriously. This "I'm upset so I'll punish your PC in game to show you" stuff is pathetic. I absolutely agree he is wrong in not calling to cancel with you guys but you are absolutely wrong if you punish him in-game for it. Two wrongs and all that....
While I wouldn't say pathetic, I would definitely +1 this.
In game treatment for an out of game condition is not the answer, in my opinion.
TriOmega is dead on. Don't solve out of game problems with in-game punishment. That's silly, no offense. How old is he? Is he just a kid? Or is he grown adult? Depending on his maturity level you need to address him face to face as suggested above. This is how I would approach it: "Hey man listen, this is the like the third time that you've canceled and I am not sure that you realize how much time I put into planning for an adventure where I need everyone's involvement. I can't keep dropping in an NPC or having them put themselves in jeopardy without you helping them out. Do you still enjoy playing the game? If it keeps going I think it might be best if maybe we take a break for a bit. right now, it's just not working." This will either weed him out of the game, or give him a kick in the ass so that he is more diligent.Solving out-of-game problems with in-game solutions is a dishonest and overall, bad idea.
If you're upset about him not showing up, you need to talk to him directly, face-to-face, and tell him that you feel it is disrespectful to you and the group when he does not show without warning. Find out what causes him not to show, be it schedule conflicts, unavoidable workcalls, or just lack of interest.
Don't go underhanded about it, because that will only lead to bad blood.
Okay not trying to be rude but please read the whole thread, I am not solving out of game problems with in game punishments.
Wow I never thought of useing the breakup line on a player lol.
In game treatment for an out of game condition is not the answer, in my opinion.
Spoilered for being somewhat off topic…
"But that's in game!"
Is it?
…sorry. Had to vent.
In game treatment for an out of game condition is not the answer, in my opinion.Spoilered for being somewhat off topic…
** spoiler omitted **
…sorry. Had to vent.
Wow I never caught that
In game treatment for an out of game condition is not the answer, in my opinion.Spoilered for being somewhat off topic…
** spoiler omitted **
…sorry. Had to vent.
Well, thats an IN game problem that is causing a disruption, so an in game solution is usually the way to go (Though if the player is an adult about it, often you can correct it with an out of game discussion)
This is a player problem thats causing a situation. Hopefully it can be resolved. Its never fun to tell a player not to come back and makes it even worse if your in a low pop area for players. Fortunately I've only had to kick a player once in 15 years for being a d*ckcheese. And that was less for his actions in game, than his flagrant disrespect for the fellow players in the group and the GM for that campaign.
Well, thats an IN game problem that is causing a disruption, so an in game solution is usually the way to go (Though if the player is an adult about it, often you can correct it with an out of game discussion)
I disagree. The in game solution will lead to an arms race and/or hard feelings.
Go directly to discussion, do not pass go, do not collect $200. It is an out of game issue with in game symptoms.
I disagree. The in game solution will lead to an arms race and/or hard feelings.Go directly to discussion, do not pass go, do not collect $200. It is an out of game issue with in game symptoms.
Ditto.
Being a leader, even if it's just a GM, means growing a spine, acting as an adult, and dealing with people as people.
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It sounds like this person is extremely immature, but he has a genuine interest in gaming for the entertainment aspect of it. Problem is, D&D isn't a computer roleplaying game on a table, its more of an interactive game, and it relies on playing a variety of roles by several people. A disrespect to the other players and/or the GM is a disrespect to this system. This is a game that relies on the willing participation of more than one person, so grandstanding and commando participation is irksome to many people, and may alienate one person from the rest of the group.
Treating other players unfairly may lead to resentment and/or anger, which may have in-game repercussions, with or without the DM's influence. Every player, and the GM, has a voice in the game. They have a say so in what happens, and to whom, and in what manner, so "no call - no show" should have a repercussion in my opinion.
What that repercussion is depends on the playing group.
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I agree, talking to the player directly is best. Inform him of the problem and that it effects others.
Ask him to do his best to inform you if he can't show and at least drop off his character so he can be run (as a psudo PC) for that session, if he can't or won't then let him know you will move on with the game, and his character my fall behind if he does not at least drop him off.
Everyone has real-world stuff the superseeds the game but you can still be considerste of the other gamers.
Just my 2 cents
Just dock him experience points (plus the ep he'll lose for missing the game) and the message will be sent. If this guy "loves" the game that much, this'll hurt more than anything.
Most of the time someone is out of the action for a session or two, they can expect to sit a while watching when they come back until the GM can catch their character back up with the rest of the party. If a player let everyone know he had to cancel, I'll bend over backwards to get him back in ASAP, if they were a no-show, I'm not in any rush to get them back into the game. It's the same with a guy who makes a new character every half session. Their lack of participation results in a lack of participation; appropriate response.
Just to be clear though, a player not showing is most definitely an out of game problem. You the GM certainly has to adjust the game to compensate for the missing player and character, but that's part of your job as a GM and it just plain sucks to be GM sometimes. You don't like the guy's attendance to your game sessions, that's a friend problem; get new friends if you can't deal with a friend.
This is a good point, but being that all he talks about is D&D and his reason for not showing/calling was that it was cold (he only lives about a half a mile from my place)which is a dumb reason for not calling, not to mention we would have given him a ride. Hmm the thing with this guy is he is kind of a stereotypical nerd and he is extremely obsessed with this game (he almost cried when his weapon got destroyed) and is a bit of a rule Nazi, and I know that just talking to him will not get the point across. I don't really want to to punish his character but I just can't think of anything else to do that isn't to extreme and will get the point across.
I completely disagree. If he is that obsessed with the game, he's much, much more likely to take your talk seriously. If he finds out his presence in a hobby he adores so much is in jeopardy, I feel he is much more likely to listen. If you just do something in game, he'll probably figure it's just part of the game.
Even worse, if you go through the trouble of a full-on side-quest for him not showing up, you are actually encouraging him to not show up, seeing as how he gets the spotlight and the game all to himself.
In game treatment for an out of game condition is not the answer, in my opinion.Spoilered for being somewhat off topic…
** spoiler omitted **
…sorry. Had to vent.
I've been there before. I agree, with the problem needs to be discussed the player directly. Thankfully my players are pretty reasonable and value the overall fun of the game above showing off feat/class combos. I've had players voluntarily give up over-powered characters without my asking, and I've done so myself. We have an understanding that if a character is unbalancing the game, then something should be done. As the DM, if I am having a hard time with the abilities of a character, I'll talk to the player and let them know honestly where I'm coming from. I at least give the player a chance to enlighten me about their character and help me find ways to challenge them, without killing off the rest of the party simultaneously. In some instances, it was just a misunderstanding of certain class features that as giving me a hard time.
Out of game discussion should be the first step, I'd say in any instance of a problem. If you do something in-game, the player(s) may not realize what provoked it, and think it's just part of the game. And, if you do feel the need to go after someone's character, and exploit a specific weakness, there had better be some justification for it. Example spoilerfied:
In one of my games, I had a player who's character was a swashbuckling duelist/fencer type. Through a combination of feats and class features, this character's AC was RIDICULOUSLY high for their level. For weeks and weeks of sessions, this character danced around every encounter and never got a scratch.
I eventually figured out that if I could catch this character flat-footed, their AC plummeted to around 13. I decided it was time to exploit this, so I rolled up a villain to knock this character off their untouchable high horse. The encounter was designed specifically to play off the character's weakness, and did so in spades. The villain had no intention of killing the PC, but had personal reasons to prove herself. After the player did some lengthy investigating, they learned that this villain had spent a great deal of time observing and studying the character's fencing techniques. In short, I made this the in-story justification of the villain being able to trounce the player in combat.
This actually worked out terrific. The player made it their personal mission to track down this villain and find out why she was stalking them. This eventually led to a final showdown, and subsequent questioning, where the player learned that this villain was their half-sister(think Robin hood/Will Scarlet type rivalry). The player was so flabbergasted they jumped up and screamed! The player wanted so bad to just kill the villain off once and for all, but couldn't once they found out they were related(the PC was good-aligned)! Ah, the torturous frustration!
So, sometimes "getting back" at the player can be a lot of fun, if handled in the story. Never let the reason be your personal frustration; keep it in-story.
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In the games I DM (stolen from my DM), I reward people for coming on time. If you get here within 15 minutes of the start of the game, you get an "action point card", essentially a "cool factor", only more limited.
My DM in another game rewards players with 50 or 500 xp (depending on level of party) if they respond yes or no to a poll in a yahoo group. You get the xp even if you can't make it to game, if you respond.
I really think that punishing a character for absolutely out-of-game problems is NOT the way to solve problems.
Talk to him, tell him that he needs to call, email, whatever.
Threaten to kick him out of the game for a few games, or permanently.
His character wasn't rude, he was.
I eventually figured out that if I could catch this character flat-footed, their AC plummeted to around 13.
Did your player take steps to prevent his character from being caught flat-footed?
I eventually figured out that if I could catch this character flat-footed, their AC plummeted to around 13.Did your player take steps to prevent his character from being caught flat-footed?
Not really. I recall it being one of his arguments against his character being too overpowered. As long as the enemies didn't think to purposely get him flat footed he was alright. On occasion enemies would catch him flat-footed, but they rarely lived long enough to tell anyone.
We're all pretty open with our character's strengths and weaknesses. There's an understanding that when we DM our respective games, that we don't purposely use our RL knowledge of the character's weaknesses maliciously, but if the bad guys were to go to some length to find out those weaknesses, or if the character leaves themselves exposed in some way, it's alright. There has to be some justification for it, other than out of game conversation. As long as the DM can work it believably into the story, we're cool with it.
We're all pretty open with our character's strengths and weaknesses.
That is why I advise discussion over Strategy X. GMs and Players should work together for the benefit of everyone. Just as the characters may be at each others throats while the players are not, the world may be against the characters while the GM is not.
I eventually figured out that if I could catch this character flat-footed, their AC plummeted to around 13.Did your player take steps to prevent his character from being caught flat-footed?
Not really. I recall it being one of his arguments against his character being too overpowered.
To be fair, it's not like I was able to dish out a lot of damage with my +1 rapier. :)
I agree with all the previous posts that you should approach the offending player head on. As a further thought, instead of looking for ways to punish the offending party member, perhaps you should find ways to reward the party members who do show up and contribute.
To be fair, it's not like I was able to dish out a lot of damage with my +1 rapier. :)I eventually figured out that if I could catch this character flat-footed, their AC plummeted to around 13.Did your player take steps to prevent his character from being caught flat-footed?
Not really. I recall it being one of his arguments against his character being too overpowered.
True, but by never, ever getting hit, even with a +1 Rapier the character could outlast anything given enough time. Hence, the antagonist who could catch you flat-footed.
I'm not worried about it. It was from a campaign from years ago. I never penalized the character for doing what they did so well, it was just frustrating as an inexperienced DM as I was. I'd like to pick it up again and finish the story sometime. We left it on a cliffhanger, and just haven't had the time to get back to it.