I have a few house rules for the monk class I am planning on trying out, and I'd love to hear what people think of them.
Original Flurry of Blows wrote: Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When doing so he may make one additional attack using any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special monk weapon (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham) as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat). For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.
At 8th level, the monk can make two additional attacks when he uses flurry of blows, as if using Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
At 15th level, the monk can make three additional attacks using flurry of blows, as if using Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
A monk applies his full Strength bonus to his damage rolls for all successful attacks made with flurry of blows, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands. A monk may substitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows. A monk cannot use any weapon other than an unarmed strike or a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows. A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.
Modified Flurry of Blows wrote: Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When doing so he may make one additional attack using any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special monk weapon (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham) as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat). For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.
At 8th level, the monk can make two additional attacks when he uses flurry of blows, as if using Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
At 15th level, the monk can make three additional attacks using flurry of blows, as if using Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
A monk applies his full Strength bonus to his damage rolls for all successful attacks made with flurry of blows, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands. A monk may substitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows. A monk cannot use any weapon other than an unarmed strike, natural weapon or a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows. A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.
Since Flurry of Blows is already a full round action, I don't see how this is going to cause anything too outrageous, other than the dreaded vampire monks, or other such synergies.
Original Fast Movement wrote: Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level, a monk gains an enhancement bonus to his land speed, as shown on Table: Monk. A monk in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed. Modified Fast Movement wrote: Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level, a monk gains an enhancement bonus to his base speed, as shown on Table: Monk. This bonus applies to any form of movement that the monk has access to permanently. A monk in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed. Now the monk can add their fast movement to their swim, climb, burrow, fly, etc speed if they are normally capable of moving in that manner.
Original Wholeness of Body wrote: Wholeness of Body (Su): At 7th level or higher, a monk can heal his own wounds as a standard action. He can heal a number of hit points of damage equal to his monk level by using 2 points from his ki pool. Modified Wholeness of Body wrote: Wholeness of Body (Su): At 7th level or higher, a monk can heal his own wounds as a swift action. He can heal a number of hit points of damage as per Lay On Hands, counting his monk levels as paladin levels for the purpose of this ability, by using 2 points from his ki pool. The monk does not require free hands to use this ability. Wholeness of Body doesn't do a whole lot, and Lay On Hands already accomplishes something similar. I also made it a swift action to make it more usable in combat. This should give the monk a bit more survivability.
Original Abundant Step wrote: Abundant Step (Su): At 12th level or higher, a monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door. Using this ability is a move action that consumes 2 points from his ki pool. His caster level for this effect is equal to his monk level. He cannot take other creatures with him when he uses this ability. Modified Abundant Step wrote: Abundant Step (Su): At 12th level or higher, a monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door. Using this ability is a move action that consumes 2 points from his ki pool. His caster level for this effect is equal to his monk level. He cannot take other creatures with him when he uses this ability. Using this ability does not prevent the monk from taking other actions this turn. This should give the monk a bit better mobility at higher levels.
I am also considering some changes to allow the monk to take the Greater Combat Maneuver Feats without the 13 Int Requirements but still requiring the prior feats in the chain. I'm not sure on how to word it cleanly though.
Another house rule I am somewhat interested in, is allowing the monk's unarmed strikes to automatically be treated as +X weapons at various levels for the purpose of bypassing DR, similar to how the monk's fists in Baldur's Gate II gained +X weapon enchants automatically as they leveled up. I'd preferably give the bonus a few levels after it becomes possible to bypass the DRs through Ki Strike, but I'm still working on the exact details.
I can't tell what the first change you made is Caedwyr.
The movement one is kind of nice, but doesn't really help the average monk.
The change to wholeness of body though, I like that. Should prove handy.
And the abundant step boost is nice. Not super great (swift action would be super great lol) but nice :)
I can promise you the changes I've identified sure as hell won't overpower the monk. I would take it further, but these will make a high level monk play better.
kyrt-ryder wrote: I can't tell what the first change you made is Caedwyr.
The movement one is kind of nice, but doesn't really help the average monk.
The change to wholeness of body though, I like that. Should prove handy.
And the abundant step boost is nice. Not super great (swift action would be super great lol) but nice :)
I can promise you the changes I've identified sure as hell won't overpower the monk. I would take it further, but these will make a high level monk play better.
The first change removes the restriction from using a natural weapon when Flurrying. That is the change I am most concerned about causing issues, as I've seen people claiming that horrible things would happen if natural weapons could be used in the manner I've suggested.
Caedwyr wrote: kyrt-ryder wrote: I can't tell what the first change you made is Caedwyr.
The movement one is kind of nice, but doesn't really help the average monk.
The change to wholeness of body though, I like that. Should prove handy.
And the abundant step boost is nice. Not super great (swift action would be super great lol) but nice :)
I can promise you the changes I've identified sure as hell won't overpower the monk. I would take it further, but these will make a high level monk play better.
The first change removes the restriction from using a natural weapon when Flurrying. That is the change I am most concerned about causing issues, as I've seen people claiming that horrible things would happen if natural weapons could be used in the manner I've suggested. Personal suggestion here. Instead of making natural attacks usable during a flurry, (which makes no real sense because natural attacks aren't supposed to get iterative attacks) I would suggest making it official that a monk can use his unarmed damage with his natural attacks.
It's always been a fringe ruling in 3.5, one that was argued back and forth, and I feel it's a fair one, but that does make monks that have natural attacks a little more interesting.
kyrt-ryder wrote:
Personal suggestion here. Instead of making natural attacks usable during a flurry, (which makes no real sense because natural attacks aren't supposed to get iterative attacks) I would suggest making it official that a monk can use his unarmed damage with his natural attacks.
It's always been a fringe ruling in 3.5, one that was argued back and forth, and I feel it's a fair one, but that does make monks that have natural attacks a little more interesting.
Other than tradition, is there a game-breaking issue I am overlooking in allowing natural weapons to be used in a Flurry of Blows, aside from the previously mentioned vampire monk issue? It seems to me that following internal logic, a creature with natural weapons consisting of claws, tentacles, etc should be allowed to flurry with them (provided they have monk levels). Thinking about some of the shenanigans that a druid/monk might be able to get up to, it may be a good idea to require a Weapon Focus (INSERT NATURAL WEAPON TYPE HERE) in order for the monk to flurry with that natural weapon.
To expand on that, it might be interesting to allow a monk to use a Weapon Focus (Weapon Type) to allow a certain type of weapon to be treated as a monk weapon, for the purposes of Flurry of Blows. I'm probably missing some horribly overpowered combination, but it would allow for more transparency between different classes.
What is with the vampire comment? Why is it any worse than a normal vampire? The energy drain attack of a vampire can only be used once per round if that is what are causing people to think they are so powerful.
The vampire can now only use energy drain once per round, no matter how many of his attacks actually hit. That should help slightly.
Ah, I wasn't aware of that change. Substitute Ghoul for Vampire in the previous examples for the intended effect.
I think one of the concerns with natural attack is that now *every* Shifting Druid will be tempted to dip into a level of Monk to get FoB in addition to the WIS bonus to AC when shifted.
Of course, since FoB Attack Bonus is equal to your Monk level I(and doesn't seem to benefit from other classes' BaB), that's a losing proposition in the long run. But I bet someone could come up with a workable Druid/Monk multiclass. There's nothing wrong with that, but too much KungFu Panda is a possibility!
Micco wrote: I think one of the concerns with natural attack is that now *every* Shifting Druid will be tempted to dip into a level of Monk to get FoB in addition to the WIS bonus to AC when shifted.
Of course, since FoB Attack Bonus is equal to your Monk level I(and doesn't seem to benefit from other classes' BaB), that's a losing proposition in the long run. But I bet someone could come up with a workable Druid/Monk multiclass. There's nothing wrong with that, but too much KungFu Panda is a possibility!
That isn't such a big deal though, since the monk only gains one additional bonus attack until monk level 8.
I'd also disagree with the interpretation that the monk can only use their monk level for Flurry of Blows BAB. Yes, the monk gets +BAB equal to their monk level, but they can also get +BAB from other sources as well. Setting Flurry BAB=monk level would prevent the monk from being able to hit a target more easily when using better gear that improves their BAB while flurrying, which is not what I think is intended.
I've done a bit more thinking and made a few more changes to the monk.
Original Flurry of Blows wrote: Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When doing so he may make one additional attack using any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special monk weapon (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham) as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat). For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.
At 8th level, the monk can make two additional attacks when he uses flurry of blows, as if using Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
At 15th level, the monk can make three additional attacks using flurry of blows, as if using Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
A monk applies his full Strength bonus to his damage rolls for all successful attacks made with flurry of blows, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands. A monk may substitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows. A monk cannot use any weapon other than an unarmed strike or a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows. A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.
Modified Flurry of Blows wrote: Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When doing so he may make one additional attack using any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special monk weapon (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham) as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat). For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.
At 8th level, the monk can make two additional attacks when he uses flurry of blows, as if using Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
At 15th level, the monk can make three additional attacks using flurry of blows, as if using Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
A monk applies his full Strength bonus to his damage rolls for all successful attacks made with flurry of blows, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands. A monk may substitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows. A monk cannot use any weapon other than an unarmed strike or a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows unless the weapon has the Ki-Focus enhancement and the monk has taken the Weapon Focus feat in the chosen weapon's type. A monk with natural weapons cannot make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.
The monk can now use flurry of blows with more weapon types, so long as the weapon has the Ki-Focus enhancement and the monk has taken the Weapon Focus feat in that weapon. This includes natural weapons, but would require a monk with different natural weapons (bite and claw for example) to take Weapon Focus in both natural weapon types if they wanted to use both types of natural weapons as part of a flurry of blows. This would allow druids to flurry in wildshape form, but they would have to specialize and wouldn't be able to flurry in any form they could wildshape into.
Original Fast Movement wrote: Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level, a monk gains an enhancement bonus to his land speed, as shown on Table: Monk. A monk in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed. Modified Fast Movement wrote: Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level, a monk gains an enhancement bonus to his base speed, as shown on Table: Monk. This bonus applies to any form of movement that the monk has access to permanently. A monk in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed. No changes from earlier in the thread. The monk can add their fast movement to their swim, climb, burrow, fly, etc speed if they are normally capable of moving in that manner.
Original Wholeness of Body wrote: Wholeness of Body (Su): At 7th level or higher, a monk can heal his own wounds as a standard action. He can heal a number of hit points of damage equal to his monk level by using 2 points from his ki pool. Modified Wholeness of Body wrote: Wholeness of Body (Su): At 7th level or higher, a monk can heal his own wounds as a swift action. He can heal a number of hit points of damage as per Lay On Hands, counting his monk levels as paladin levels for the purpose of this ability, by using 2 points from his ki pool. The monk does not require free hands to use this ability. No changes from earlier in the thread. Wholeness of Body doesn't do a whole lot, and Lay On Hands already accomplishes something similar. I also made it a swift action to make it more usable in combat. This should give the monk a bit more survivability.
Original Abundant Step wrote: Abundant Step (Su): At 12th level or higher, a monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door. Using this ability is a move action that consumes 2 points from his ki pool. His caster level for this effect is equal to his monk level. He cannot take other creatures with him when he uses this ability. Modified Abundant Step wrote: Abundant Step (Su): At 12th level or higher, a monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door. Using this ability is a move action that consumes 2 points from his ki pool. His caster level for this effect is equal to his monk level. He cannot take other creatures with him when he uses this ability. Using this ability does not prevent the monk from taking other actions this turn. No changes from earlier in this thread. This should give the monk a bit better mobility at higher levels.
Original Bonus Feats wrote: Bonus Feat: At 1st level, 2nd level, and every 4 levels thereafter, a monk may select a bonus feat. These feats must be taken from the following list: Catch Off-Guard, Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Improved Grapple, Scorpion Style, and Throw Anything. At 6th level, the following feats are added to the list: Gorgon's Fist, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Trip, and Mobility. At 10th level, the following feats are added to the list: Improved Critical, Medusa's Wrath, Snatch Arrows, and Spring Attack. A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them. Modified Bonus Feats wrote: Bonus Feat: At 1st level, 2nd level, and every 4 levels thereafter, a monk may select a bonus feat. These feats must be taken from the following list: Catch Off-Guard, Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Improved Grapple, Scorpion Style, and Throw Anything. At 6th level, the following feats are added to the list: Gorgon's Fist, Greater Bull Rush, Greater Disarm, Greater Feint, Greater Grapple, Greater Sunder, Greater Trip, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Trip, Mobility, and Wind Stance. At 10th level, the following feats are added to the list: Improved Critical, Lightning Stance, Medusa's Wrath, Snatch Arrows, and Spring Attack. A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them. Gives the monk earlier access to the Greater Combat Maneuvers. The greater combat maneuvers give slightly different bonuses than the improved ones, and a monk who is going to focus on them will want both. I also added Wind and Lightning Stance as they seemed thematically appropriate.
Original Maneuver Training wrote: Maneuver Training (Ex): At 3rd level, a monk uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus when calculating his Combat Maneuver Bonus. Base attack bonuses granted from other classes are unaffected and are added normally. Modified Maneuver Training wrote: Maneuver Training (Ex): At 3rd level, a monk uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus when calculating his Combat Maneuver Bonus. Base attack bonuses granted from other classes are unaffected and are added normally. The monk does not provoke attacks of opportunity when performing combat maneuvers. The monk no longer provokes attacks of opportunity for using combat maneuvers. I don't think this is overpowered, but I'd appreciate some feedback.
I decided against messing around with innate improved weapons acting as +X weapons as the monk levels up. I think I've made enough changes to the class.
Micco wrote: I think one of the concerns with natural attack is that now *every* Shifting Druid will be tempted to dip into a level of Monk to get FoB in addition to the WIS bonus to AC when shifted.
Of course, since FoB Attack Bonus is equal to your Monk level I(and doesn't seem to benefit from other classes' BaB), that's a losing proposition in the long run. But I bet someone could come up with a workable Druid/Monk multiclass. There's nothing wrong with that, but too much KungFu Panda is a possibility!
I looked into this. Your monk level counts instead of your monk BAB, not instead of your BAB. I dont recall where the like was, but I got an official answer on it about a year ago.
Darkholme wrote: Micco wrote: I think one of the concerns with natural attack is that now *every* Shifting Druid will be tempted to dip into a level of Monk to get FoB in addition to the WIS bonus to AC when shifted.
Of course, since FoB Attack Bonus is equal to your Monk level I(and doesn't seem to benefit from other classes' BaB), that's a losing proposition in the long run. But I bet someone could come up with a workable Druid/Monk multiclass. There's nothing wrong with that, but too much KungFu Panda is a possibility!
I looked into this. Your monk level counts instead of your monk BAB, not instead of your BAB. I dont recall where the like was, but I got an official answer on it about a year ago. +1, I've seen the official ruling on that as well.
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