I get the impression that the 'Council of Thieves' is more secret society than actual thieves’ guild. So am I right in thinking that they're purely "white-collar crime" and so don't really deal in street level stuff? So if someone were playing a rogue, would they have any sort of guild structure to deal with or is the "Council" so secretive that the average criminal wouldn't be knowledgeable about them?
And if 'Council of Thieves' is just the name of their secret society and that's all, is there any kind of thieves’ organization (besides the bandit groups) that a rogue would have to deal with?
Creative Director
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I get the impression that the 'Council of Thieves' is more secret society than actual thieves’ guild. So am I right in thinking that they're purely "white-collar crime" and so don't really deal in street level stuff? So if someone were playing a rogue, would they have any sort of guild structure to deal with or is the "Council" so secretive that the average criminal wouldn't be knowledgeable about them?
And if 'Council of Thieves' is just the name of their secret society and that's all, is there any kind of thieves’ organization (besides the bandit groups) that a rogue would have to deal with?
The Council of Thieves is about as secret as the Mafia is in the real world. Most folks have heard of them, and there's a LOT of misinformation about them, but they're not exactly out and about, advertising themselves. In fact, as the adventure path begins, most citizens of Westcrown actually believe that the Council of Thieves is nothing more than a made-up story or an old legend. They DO deal more with white-collar crime; the fact that some of their members are starting to finance murderers and banditry against the Council's traditions is a key part of the unfolding plot of the adventure path, in fact.
There are no other organized thieves' guilds in Westcrown beside the Council of Thieves.
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just curious -- do they call themselves the council of thieves? in a culture that is so law-abiding as westcrown/cheliax, it seems like kind of a slap in the face to the establishment to pick a name that is so obviously counter-culture.
one thing that I haven't formally seen in the AP (so far) that I'm constructing on my own, is the mafia-style org chart (example) of the CoT, and who the power players are in each "family". how often do they meet? where do they meet? when they meet, is it all of the bosses? all of the bosses and their underbosses? how are decisions made? What is the title of the Head Boss? etc etc. Filling out these details will offer that sort of crime-grit feel that makes this AP so unique.
Yes, basic info concerning the actual structure of the organization would be very helpful.
Right now I'm trying to figure out what to tell my rogue player about 'guild' activity. If I go with the 'mafia' approach then it would make sense that they would be running rackets all over town, which would provide rogue types with job opportunities, which would in turn make it hard to justify most rogues NOT working for the CoT.
If I go with the secret society angle then it sounds like there is no organization that runs the 'street level' crime and it's pretty much every thief for himself.
I know that the CoT will probably not make an 'official' appearance till later on in the story, but this type of info needs to be considered now, in case some wily PC figures things out early and starts asking tough questions...like my situation at the present.
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Creative Director
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just curious -- do they call themselves the council of thieves? in a culture that is so law-abiding as westcrown/cheliax, it seems like kind of a slap in the face to the establishment to pick a name that is so obviously counter-culture.
one thing that I haven't formally seen in the AP (so far) that I'm constructing on my own, is the mafia-style org chart (example) of the CoT, and who the power players are in each "family". how often do they meet? where do they meet? when they meet, is it all of the bosses? all of the bosses and their underbosses? how are decisions made? What is the title of the Head Boss? etc etc. Filling out these details will offer that sort of crime-grit feel that makes this AP so unique.
Yup; they do indeed refer to themselves as the Council of Thieves. And Cheliax isn't any more law-abiding a culture than most others, actually; they've got plenty of crime and trouble, as the Council of Thieves AP shows.
There's an "ecology of the Thieve's Guild" article in Pathfinder #29 that has a lot of info about how thieves' guilds work, but for the actual Council of Thieves, we kept a lot of that organization information out of the adventure. They're not really meant to be an organization the PCs learn a whole lot about... but if you DO want the PCs to learn more about them, the article in #29 and various tidbits about the organization that appear in the last three adventures should help.
If you're looking for cinmatographic inspiration on low-level mob activities, check out the movie Donnie Brasco. It's nothing but gold if you ask me.
Is there anything you can say to help a newly made rogue feel like he lives in Westcrown?
What does the character know about the Council of Theives. Presumably they learned their trade in the organization. What rules constrain them and their activities (besides don't be caught out in the dark). The Mafia is not a very secret organization, everyone knows about it, they just don't talk about it.
What jobs are there if you make a rogue that isn't the least bit a knee breaker? Who do you report to? Do you pay a percentage of takes? In an AP named after an organization of thieves I would think it's important information for a rogue character to know.
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Creative Director
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The Mafia's actually a great comparison. While folks DO know about it... what they know is confused with rumor and Hollywood and fantasy. Same with the Council of Thieves. Folks know about them, but many believe that they're old legends and died out and are no longer operating. Others believe that the Council's in charge of the city.
Since the whole AP is all about learning about the Council of Thieves and the truths involved, it's actually pretty good if players (even rogues) aren't 100% sure what's real and what's not. It's CERTAINLY not a group that the PCs should belong to... the AP is all about fighting a thieves' guild, not joining it. A thief type PC should probably, as a result, be a freelancer.