Bladesinger in Pathfinder?


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It was suggested that I ask in this forum if anyone feels they may be up to creating or brainstorming for ideas for a Pathfinder Bladesinger class.

The one thing we know is it'd have to be Elf and Half Elf only.

Should it be a base class or a prestige class?

What special abilities and spell progression should they get?

Is it even possible to make a balanced Bladesinger, or is a Bladesinger simply too much of a "best of both worlds" class with not enough drawbacks?


I think in some ways the problem with Bladesingers is that the term came to mean all things to all people. For some people, it became shorthand for fighter/mage, and for other people, it was a specific Forgotten Realms tradition.

Even the 3.0/3.0 Forgotten Realms/3.5 versions of the PrC seemed to really diverge on what the class was suppose to do. The FR version of the class had a limited spell list that focused on boosting the elf's martial talents with spells while still fighting, but the 3.5 version of the class was more of a general fighter/mage that got full access to the wizard spell list and threw quickened spells once in a while.

If you want to go back to the original Complete Book of Elves concept of the class, Bladesingers were suppose to be almost like Elf Paladins, in that they wandered around showing off how good they are combining sword and spell, doing deeds that will make people respect elven prowess in general and bladsingers in particular (note, I'm not implying that Bladesingers were all suppose to be good, just that they were suppose to be "warrior paragons" of a sort).

Personally, the Races of Faerun version of the Bladesinger was always my favorite for the "feel" of Bladesingers. They got a limited spell list which consisted of spells that boosted their ability to fight, and they could cast a few of these limited spells in a quickened manner so they could keep fighting.

Personally, I usually favor PrCs for something that has to do with a racially restricted tradition that is suppose to take years of training to join. I know 3.5 grew away from PrCs that have a restricted spell list and a spellcasting progression native to the class, but to me this is more indicative of the flavor of the the original descriptions.

Barring this, even if you want to make it so that the class just gets a continued progression, I still think the spells that the bladesinger can cast quickened should be limited to those that can boost them in a fight. In other words, Cat's Grace would be a yes, Fireball would be right out.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I'm with KEJ on his opinion on the spell selection.

I'd just rip off the Pathfinder Paladin.

Detect Evil = Detect magic
Smite = Bladesong
Auras = Songs
Mercy = Fighter-list/Metamagic Feat
Divine Bond = Wizard's Arcane bond (except sword only)

The only major change would be that Bladesongs becomes a per day ability (using the smite evil progress.) The Bladesinger would consume his bladesong/day to uses the different songs.

To make up for the missing abilities like Divine grace, lay on hands, channel energy, etc. I'd just push the spell progression to level 1.

To make sure there are no "dead" levels just move all the abilities up one and fill in the missing ones at the end with the pattern established earlier.

As a prestige class just make the pre-reqs such that a fighter going on level 5 can take the class. Use the paladin ability progression for the 10 levels and sub in the above abilities. :)


Alright, so you guys are leaning toward it being a Prestige Class?

Hit dice? Are you thinking D8?

What kind of BaB? 1 per level?

As for spells, should they get spell progression past level 4 like a Paladin, or to level 6 like a Bard? And would they have access to all the Sorc/Wizard spells or would there be a "Bladesinger Spell List"?

Thanks for the input, guys.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Dork Lord wrote:
Alright, so you guys are leaning toward it being a Prestige Class?

Either way.

Dork Lord wrote:
Hit dice? Are you thinking D8?

Whatever the paladin is.

Dork Lord wrote:
What kind of BaB? 1 per level?

Whatever the paladin is.

Dork Lord wrote:
As for spells, should they get spell progression past level 4 like a Paladin, or to level 6 like a Bard? And would they have access to all the Sorc/Wizard spells or would there be a "Bladesinger Spell List"?

If we're bumping the spell progression to starting at class level 1, then yes the spell level/list needs to be expanded.

As was said, should be it's own spell list to keep spells like fireball off the spell list.


I'd vote prestige class. Now, I'm a younger gamer and less familiar with FR material, but I'm with KnightErrant on this one. It's a specific, specialized tradition, which is exactly what prestige classes should be.

I'd say either d10/full BAB/4 levels of spells, starting at 1st level, or d8/ 3/4 BAB/6 levels of spells, starting at 1st level. I don't like to mix Bard-equivalent casting and full BAB, but that's just my prejudice.

Lots of self-buffs, a little utility? Any debuffing? Should we look at the 3.5 CW implementation for ideas, or did that one get panned? It never came up in my games, so I don't know how well it played.


First, a few parameters, and I'm trying to go back to the original version of the concept from the Complete Book of Elves, which a lot of FR material was drawn from.

First, the class places a heavy emphasis on a specific style of fighting. That style was to use a one handed sword and keep the other hand free. In general, since elves get rapiers and long swords as trained weapons no matter what, it should probably favor using those weapons.

Elves are mentioned, in the original material, to actually sing while fighting. That really should fit into the class on some level. Originally the free hand was also to help with casting while using one's sword.

As for spells that would fit the tradition, I'd look at the following:

Spell List

Spoiler:

1st level

Shield
Mage Armor
True Strike
Shocking Grasp
Chill Touch
Expeditious Retreat

2nd Level

Protection from Arrows
Resist Energy
See Invisibility
Touch of Idiocy
Blur
False Life
Ghoul Touch
Bull's Strength
Bear's Endurance
Cat's Grace

3rd Level

Protection from Energy
Heroism
Rage
Displacement
Vampiric Touch
Blink
Haste

4th Level

Stoneskin
Dimension Door
Fire Shield
Shout

I'm not saying the above are a 100% must have list, but I think they fit the idea, which is the all of the abilities that harm an opponent harm someone in close combat, or they boost the bladesinger's combat ability, or they involve tactical combat movment, or boost the bladesinger's defensive ability.

Also, I threw Shout onto the list because the bladesinger is suppose to be singing as they fight, so I can picture this spell as a swelling of the song, so to speak.

Also, I nixed anything that involved stealth, such as invisibility, because on one hand, the bladesinger is suppose to be singing in combat, thus more or less pinpointing himself, and also, because the point of the tradition is to prove elven superiority in arms, aided with magic.

At any rate, that's my take on the spell list, but clearly there can be other interpretations.


Some good stuff here. So what do you think? Should a Bladesinger be a Spontaneous Caster or a Caster who prepares spells?


Post got eated.

Good spell list so far. Lots of solid self-buffs, with a few Necromancy touch attacks. Little odd to think of Elves using Necromancy, but I see the logic. I'll go through the book some time tonight or in the near future and see if there's anything I feel should be added.

As for spontaneous or prepared, I could see it going either way. Prepared fits with the Elven Wizard tradition, and presumably would be Int-based, working with their stats. A lot of Bladesingers would probably be Bards though, implying spontaneous casting. So I don't think I really have a strong preference. KnightErrant, you seem to know the most about the class's history, any input?


Well, traditionally, Bladesingers had spellbooks, because the style was suppose to be a blending of the elven traditions of wizardry and swordplay.

In 3rd edition, the Races of Faerun Bladesinger had a spellbook, but the Complete Warrior bladesinger was a "+1 casting level" class, which meant it could be a spontaneous caster.

Now, given that the tradition was "born" in 2nd edition, where the only option for an arcane spellcaster was to have a spellbook, it might, maybe, be worth looking at whether this was intrinsic to the class or just an artifact of the rules at the time.

We do have spontaneous casters that weren't quite "born with it" like sorcerers, but rather had a limited selection of spells drilled into them over time so they didn't need a spellbook and cast spontaneously, i.e. Warmage, Dread Necromancers, and the like in 3.5.

For simplicity of design I'd almost go for spontaneous, but it really depends of the surrounding lore invested in the class.


KnightErrantJR wrote:

Personally, the Races of Faerun version of the Bladesinger was always my favorite for the "feel" of Bladesingers. They got a limited spell list which consisted of spells that boosted their ability to fight, and they could cast a few of these limited spells in a quickened manner so they could keep fighting.

To me, that bladesinger was the "right" bladesinger


KnightErrant: I agree it was a fact of the rules at the time, but I could still see it going either way in the present rules, if that makes sense.

Spells I could see adding to the list (not required, but potentially):
1st level: Enlarge Person, Feather Fall, Jump, Magic Weapon
2nd level: Shatter (same logic as Shout), Fox's Cunning or Eagle's Splendor (depending on casting stat), Spider Climb
3rd level: Flame Arrow, Keen Edge, Greater Magic Weapon

I was hoping to add another spell or two at the high end, but it is hard to find things that fit on the Sor/Wiz 4th level list. The only other two I could think of would be maybe Invisibility/Greater Invisibility, but those might not fit perfectly and the latter might be a bit much, too.


Tim4488 wrote:

KnightErrant: I agree it was a fact of the rules at the time, but I could still see it going either way in the present rules, if that makes sense.

Spells I could see adding to the list (not required, but potentially):
1st level: Enlarge Person, Feather Fall, Jump, Magic Weapon
2nd level: Shatter (same logic as Shout), Fox's Cunning or Eagle's Splendor (depending on casting stat), Spider Climb
3rd level: Flame Arrow, Keen Edge, Greater Magic Weapon

I was hoping to add another spell or two at the high end, but it is hard to find things that fit on the Sor/Wiz 4th level list. The only other two I could think of would be maybe Invisibility/Greater Invisibility, but those might not fit perfectly and the latter might be a bit much, too.

Enlarge seems out of place, to me, just because being a Bladesinger is about being a graceful exemplar of elven swordmanship and martial spellcasting, and Enlarge seems a bit "brute force" for that image, in my mind. The other 1st levels make sense though, although I'm not 100% sold on Feather Fall, because its not strictly related to martial magical synthesis.

Shatter I agree with, but I think that Spider Climb falls under the same thing that doesn't quite gel with me about Feather Fall. Its tactical, and its movement based. Maybe, but I'm not sure. I guess if you have to use it to reach an opponent that is fleeing . . .

Flame arrow, while very elven, isn't very Bladesingery to me, mainly because the whole schtick is to cast with one hand and fight with your sword in the other.

But again, that's just my logic, and by no means am I the only one that's got opinions on what would constitute a good Bladesinger.

BTW, I miss having theoretical discussions about what the "feel" of a class should be, thanks everyone that's been involved in this thread.


Darkvision should be on their spell list, unless they intend to get raped by the first drow they come across.

The same probably should go for Dispel Magic. Honestly I can't say I'm a big fan of the limited spell list for a Bladesinger. The idea was conceived during second edition when multi-classing only put you a level or two behind the rest of the party and gave you nearly full access to both classes.

If you really really want to go with a limited spell list look first and foremost at elven racial enemies for the campaign. For FR that was Drow. The spell list shouldn't be aimed at making them better fighters but rather aimed at better fighting those they train to fight against (if that makes any sense).


If you are just looking for making an elf fighter/mage class, I can agree. But if we are actually talking about making the Bladesinger match up with the lore behind it, then Bladesingers didn't really go into the Underdark to fight drow, they wandered the land to prove how awesome elven swordsmen were.

Its almost like the Kung-Fu movie concept of the student of this or that martial arts school wandering around proving how great his Kung-Fu was to anyone that hadn't heard of it yet.

In fact, in a way, that's a third facet of the Bladesinger that is uniquely elven, i.e. it has to do with swordplay, arcane magic and, in a way, with elven superiority.

On the other hand, I mentioned up thread that the interpretation of the "expanded caster" version of the class has seen the light of day before, which would change this to a "+1 caster level" class. That's fine, and in that case, the spells listed wouldn't be what the class is limited to, but they should be the only spells that the Bladesinger can cast swiftly in battle using their class features.


I actually like bard as a base class for bladesingers. If they build for it, they can do that finesse melee with magical powers thing that bladesingers are supposed to do. They're also the best class for haughty elven boasting. Plus - blade'singers'. Sure, the elven bladesong is more akin to dancing. But again, dancing is still performing, and can be done while cutting a dude up with a sword.

So yeah, I'd make Bladesinger a PrC for elven bards - full BAB, Advancing casting at most levels, and adding some more combat oriented spells to their spell list. Let them expend bardic music uses to perform 'bladesongs' that they learn as they advance in the class. These would require perform (dance) checks to use and would give some melee boost, like letting the bladesinger roll perform in place of attack for a round, or channel a touch spell through a melee attack, or the like.


KnightErrantJR wrote:
Tim4488 wrote:

KnightErrant: I agree it was a fact of the rules at the time, but I could still see it going either way in the present rules, if that makes sense.

Spells I could see adding to the list (not required, but potentially):
1st level: Enlarge Person, Feather Fall, Jump, Magic Weapon
2nd level: Shatter (same logic as Shout), Fox's Cunning or Eagle's Splendor (depending on casting stat), Spider Climb
3rd level: Flame Arrow, Keen Edge, Greater Magic Weapon

I was hoping to add another spell or two at the high end, but it is hard to find things that fit on the Sor/Wiz 4th level list. The only other two I could think of would be maybe Invisibility/Greater Invisibility, but those might not fit perfectly and the latter might be a bit much, too.

Enlarge seems out of place, to me, just because being a Bladesinger is about being a graceful exemplar of elven swordmanship and martial spellcasting, and Enlarge seems a bit "brute force" for that image, in my mind. The other 1st levels make sense though, although I'm not 100% sold on Feather Fall, because its not strictly related to martial magical synthesis.

Shatter I agree with, but I think that Spider Climb falls under the same thing that doesn't quite gel with me about Feather Fall. Its tactical, and its movement based. Maybe, but I'm not sure. I guess if you have to use it to reach an opponent that is fleeing . . .

Flame arrow, while very elven, isn't very Bladesingery to me, mainly because the whole schtick is to cast with one hand and fight with your sword in the other.

But again, that's just my logic, and by no means am I the only one that's got opinions on what would constitute a good Bladesinger.

BTW, I miss having theoretical discussions about what the "feel" of a class should be, thanks everyone that's been involved in this thread.

Yeah, I grabbed Enlarge just as another self-buff spell, but you're probably right. Feather Fall may not be a perfect fit, but I don't think it overpowers the class, and I'm sure certain Bladesingers will be glad to have access to it when their orcish foes bull rush them off a cliff. I think it fits closely enough to be worth it, more or less.

Spider Climb, in my mind, I saw that you gave them Haste and it made sense to me. Granted, Haste gives more offensive benefits than Spider Climb does, but it made sense at least in my head.

Yeah, I guess the Bladesinger is more of a melee class. Tough call on Flame Arrow. I'd be inclined to leave it in, after all, not every Bladesinger has to use it, but I see your logic in not favoring it as well.

Glad you're enjoying it.

And to Demosthenes: Not a bad idea, but as others have said, this class isn't Drow-fighting focused. That's for other Elven PrCs (which would be fun to develop), but not the Bladesinger.


KnightErrantJR wrote:

If you are just looking for making an elf fighter/mage class, I can agree. But if we are actually talking about making the Bladesinger match up with the lore behind it, then Bladesingers didn't really go into the Underdark to fight drow, they wandered the land to prove how awesome elven swordsmen were.

Really?

Quote:
Role: While some characters may stay at home and defend the elven way, Bladesingers go out and actively promote it. They do this by seeking out their races foes and eliminating them, either through words or actions. Acting as both diplomats and one-elf armies, they insure the safety of the elven race.

That's from the 2nd edition kit description (emphasis mine).

Maybe I was mistaken about their place in the FR specifically. I realize a lot of this thread may be pulling from FR source material but as originally intended in the complete book of elves Bladesingers where the go out and kick drow butt kit.

Edit: And what you said earlier KE about paladin is somewhat right. Though I'd use the word inquisitor instead. They went out and kicked the hell out of anything that threatened the elven way of life. In most campaign settings drow rank high up on that list (though sadly the drow don't do jack in the FR).


I'm going to pitch my vote in for it being either a Bardic PrC, or a special variant bard (possibly based on feat's or susbsitition's for bardic music abilities)

I'm seeing the following as special "bladsong" bardic performance abilities - each will expend one "round" of bardic performance, granted at various points - either each being a feat with a different prereq, each being a different substitution for a "standard" bardic performance at a specific point, or each at an "odd" level of the PrC

*adding a bonus, either Int, or ranks in perform:Singing to AC (possibly taking one round of bardic performance per round, self only)

*casting a spell as a swift action while making a full attack with a long-sword.

*making an additional attack with a longsword or rapier at your full attack bonus

*defensive casting being an auto-sucsess on the concentration check


Demosthenes wrote:

Really?

A bladesinger that wanders alone into the Underdark to eliminate drow is going to need a lot more than a darkvision spell to keep from getting killed.

I honestly don't think that anything I've said is invalidated by that text. I do picture it as being much more likely that said bladesinger would wander into a community, be told about orcs or hobgoblins or a dragon plaguing the land, and set off after that threat.

Again, as I said above, everything I've said is just my impression, and no more valid than any other impression.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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MerrikCale wrote:
KnightErrantJR wrote:

Personally, the Races of Faerun version of the Bladesinger was always my favorite for the "feel" of Bladesingers. They got a limited spell list which consisted of spells that boosted their ability to fight, and they could cast a few of these limited spells in a quickened manner so they could keep fighting.

To me, that bladesinger was the "right" bladesinger

Yay! (Because that was the version I worked on! :P)


James Jacobs wrote:
MerrikCale wrote:
KnightErrantJR wrote:

Personally, the Races of Faerun version of the Bladesinger was always my favorite for the "feel" of Bladesingers. They got a limited spell list which consisted of spells that boosted their ability to fight, and they could cast a few of these limited spells in a quickened manner so they could keep fighting.

To me, that bladesinger was the "right" bladesinger
Yay! (Because that was the version I worked on! :P)

Woohoo, we got the EIC's attention!

Any chance we may eventually see a Bladesinger class or PrC for Pathfinder, James?

*Does the Puss in Boots from Shrek face... then realizes he's probably making things worse*


My assumption is that the Bladesinger, as such, is the intellectual property of WotC.
So i don't think there could be official Pathfinder Bladesingers.
But there is always a possibility of an elite class of elves, merging blade and magic.

(no i won't say the G word)


Seldriss wrote:

My assumption is that the Bladesinger, as such, is the intellectual property of WotC.

So i don't think there could be official Pathfinder Bladesingers.
But there is always a possibility of an elite class of elves, merging blade and magic.

(no i won't say the G word)

Crud, is that setting specific? I always thought it was an elf thing non-specific to Faerun.


Bladesingers are IP of WOTC. There was a version of bladesingers that were developed for FR, but that was only one version of the class. Regardless of their place in FR or their existence as an elven tradition across other settings, that has no bearing on bladesingers being WOTC IP.


Indeed.
If the Bladesinger is not really specific to Abeir-Toril (the kit first appeared in the AD&D 2nd Edition Complete Book of Elves), it is still a creation of TSR/Wizards of the Coast.

Liberty's Edge

As a base class, i think that the Duskblade (from Player's Handbook 2) did a really good job of filling the role of the Bladesinger. I remember one person on the old WotC board's posting a version of the Bladesinger based on that. It did limit the use of the *otherwise broken* ability of Spell Channeling, by making it only viable for the spells on the Bladesinger's spell list.

As to a prestige class, I generally frown on ones that are limited by race as a prerequisite. Perform (singing), on the other hand, would be a good requirement.


Seldriss wrote:

Indeed.

If the Bladesinger is not really specific to Abeir-Toril (the kit first appeared in the AD&D 2nd Edition Complete Book of Elves), it is still a creation of TSR/Wizards of the Coast.

You can't judge what's the current IP of WotC by who created what. If that were the case, Paizo couldn't have used anything from D&D. I'm curious, how do we know for certain that the Bladesinger class is the IP of WotC? Is there a master list of what they own that I could view for future reference?


The Bladesinger was from 2nd Edition. Open content didn't even exist then, so nothing from that era is allowed unless it was specifically marked up as such in a 3E book.


Dork Lord wrote:
You can't judge what's the current IP of WotC by who created what.

Yes you can.

Everything in WotC books is their intellectual property.
BUT everything in the SRD is open content, according to the OGL.

Quote:
If that were the case, Paizo couldn't have used anything from D&D.

They used what was in the SRD, from the OGL.

Quote:
I'm curious, how do we know for certain that the Bladesinger class is the IP of WotC? Is there a master list of what they own that I could view for future reference?

Whatever is not in the SRD is not OGL.


That's interesting. So for example, the Complete Divine is owned by WotC but Deities and Demigods is not?


Dork Lord wrote:
That's interesting. So for example, the Complete Divine is owned by WotC but Deities and Demigods is not?

It's ALLLLLL owned by WotC, but they made it legal for other people to use specific aspects. Namely the contents of the SRD and a few other articles.

Among those exceptions, are pieces of Dieties and Demigods, The Epic Level Handbook, and Unearthed Arcana.


Even if you use open content, there are procedures that you have to follow to legally use that open content, because it is, indeed, owned by WOTC. Granted, in mainly consists of making sure you print certain text in the product that uses that open content, but the point is, its not that WOTC doesn't own the content.

Liberty's Edge

Open content aside, house ruling the prestige class you like the best into your pathfinder game is easy enough. Most conversions from 3/3.5 stuff to pathfinder I've found to be minimal work at best.

We have a Dervish in our current campaign, for example, and that wasn't hard to convert. Combining some skills and then we changed the Dervish's number of dances per day into rounds per day to match the Barbarian and Bard changes.

Same thing with the Bladesinger. We had been using the CW version and converted it easy peasy. Never looked at the Races of Faerun version though. I am painted intrigued!!


Malisteen wrote:

I actually like bard as a base class for bladesingers. If they build for it, they can do that finesse melee with magical powers thing that bladesingers are supposed to do. They're also the best class for haughty elven boasting. Plus - blade'singers'. Sure, the elven bladesong is more akin to dancing. But again, dancing is still performing, and can be done while cutting a dude up with a sword.

So yeah, I'd make Bladesinger a PrC for elven bards - full BAB, Advancing casting at most levels, and adding some more combat oriented spells to their spell list. Let them expend bardic music uses to perform 'bladesongs' that they learn as they advance in the class. These would require perform (dance) checks to use and would give some melee boost, like letting the bladesinger roll perform in place of attack for a round, or channel a touch spell through a melee attack, or the like.

This is what I was going for myself, as I was just beginning to do my own Prestige Class for it.

On the other hand, I actually disagree with a completely restricted spell list. To me the 2nd Edition was the best adaptation, and I don't think they were ever meant to be " buff-thyself " combabtants only. According to the 2nd Ed Complete Book of Elves " Thier spells are, therefore, usually of an offensive nature with very short casting times ". This, if I recall correctly, were spells like Fireball and Lightning Bolt. I'm not saying they should stand up to a dedicated Evoker or War Mage, but they shouldn't be excluded from these Spells, IMHO.


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OK, so after reading this, I made my Bladesinger Prestige Class, Read and enjoy, and try to be kind, LOL....

Bladesinger

Hit Die : D8

Requirements
To qualify to become a Bladesinger, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria :

Racial : Elf Only
Weapon Proficiency : Must be proficient with a one-handed
bladed weapon.
Skills : Knowledge ( Arcana ) 5 Ranks, Perform ( Dance ) 5
Ranks, Perform ( Sing ) 5 Ranks.
Feats : Weapon Finesse, Still Spell
Special : Versatile Performance ( Dance ).

Class Skills
The Bladesinger’s Class Skills ( and the key ability for each skill ) are : Acrobatics (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy ( Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Perception (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Points at each Level : 2 + Intelligence Modifier.

BAB : Full
Saves : Good Ref and Will
Spellcasting : +1 Level of Arcane Spellcasting class

Class Features

1st Bladesong Style

2nd Song of Defense

3rd Spell Training

4th Song of Assault

5th Spell Training

6th Bladesong Flurry

7th Spell Training

8th Song of Warding

9th Spell Training

10th Song of Arcane Triumph

Class Features

All of the following are Class Features of the Bladesinger Prestige Class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency : Bladesingers does not gain any new Weapon or Armor proficiencies.

Spellcasting : At each Level a Bladesinger gains new Spells per Day and Spells Known as well as an increased Caster Level as if he had also gained a Level in the Arcane Spellcasting Class he belonged to before entering the Bladesinger Prestige Class. He does not gain any other benefit that Class would have gained. If the character had more than one Arcane Class before becoming a Bladesinger, he must decide to which Class he adds the new Level for purposes of determining Spells per Day.

Bladesong Style : A Bladesinger studies the ancient Elven Style of sword-fighting known as the Bladesong. This Style relies heavily on the Bardic Performance Ability. At 2nd Level, a Bladesinger may activate a Bladesong ability as a Move Action, and at 8th Level as a Swift Action. All other functions of Bardic Performance apply. The Bladesinger continues to add Rounds of Performance as a Bard of equal Level, and he may activate his normal Bardic abilities with this Style as well. When in an active Performance, the Bladesinger may wield any single one-handed weapon, while having nothing in the other hand, with the Weapon Finesse Feat ( such as a Long Sword ).

Song of Defense (Ex) : When this Performance is activated by the Bladesinger, and if he is wearing Light or No Armor and not using a Shield, the Bladesinger adds 1 point of Intelligence Bonus ( if any ) per Bladesinger Class Level to his Dexterity Bonus to modify his Armor Class while wielding a melee weapon. If the Bladesinger is caught Flat-Footed or otherwise denied his Dexterity Bonus, he also loses this Bonus. This Bonus also applies to his Concentration check to Cast Defensively.

Song of Assault (Ex) : When a Bladesinger uses this Performance, he may make one extra attack in a Round, as long as he takes a Full Attack Action. This attack, and all such attacks in the Round, suffer a -2 Penalty “ To Hit ”. This Penalty applies until the Performance is ended and applies to Attacks of Opportunity and so on.

Song of Warding (Su) : When using this Performance, the Bladesinger weaves Arcane Wardings around his body, shielding him from magical harm. He gains Spell Resistance equal to 11 + his Character Level.

Song of Arcane Triumph (Su) : This Performance is the pinnacle of the Bladesinger’s Art, allowing him to channel the raw energy of his magical Power into his Performance. Once per Round, as a Standard Action that includes a single attack he can tap into his Spell Power and transform it into Sonic Energy. If the attack hits, he may spend a Spell Slot which causes 1D6 points of Sonic Damage per spell Level of the expended Spell Slot to the target of the melee attack. A Fortitude Save ( DC 10 + half the Bladesinger’s Level + his Charisma Modifier ) halves the Sonic Damage dealt. If the attack was a Critical Hit, the target is Deafened for 1D4 Rounds, No Save. Apply the Deafened condition, even if the target is Immune to Critical Hits.

Spell Training (Ex) : At 3rd Level, a Bladesinger gains training in Elven Battle Magic. He may add any one Spell of the Abjuration, Conjuration, Evocation or Transmutation Schools to his list of Spells Known. These are in addition to the Spells gained at each Level. He gains this ability again at 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th Levels.

Bladesong Flurry (Su) : At 6th Level the Bladesinger learns to blend Spellcasting with a flurry of attacks. When using this ability, the Bladesinger may Cast a Spell as a Free Action as part of a Full Attack with his Blade. Doing this has no effect on the Spell’s effective Level or Casting Time. A Bladesinger must make at least one attack with his Blade, and have nothing in his off hand, when he uses this ability. He can make an attack roll with the Spell, if it is required. A Bladesinger can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1 + his Dexterity Modifier ( minimum of 1 ).

Notes

Bladesong Flurry is a rip from the Daggerspell Mage in Compelete Adventurer. It seemed very fitting for the Class.

Song of Arcane Triumph is taken from Monte Cook's Transcendence Book for the Bladesong substitution levels for his Mageblade Class. I tweaked it slightly, and think it too fits the Bladesinger well.


How did I miss this?

Thank you, Bladesinger!


With the arrival of the elven curve blade, did you consider allowing this for bladesingers?


what about half-elf and drow??
the drow had bladesingers too....

so does your bladesinger allow for light armored casting??
I seemed to missed it if it did


The Drow had their own techniques and half-Elves were never taught, as the training could easily take upwards of five decades.


To answer a few question....

1 ) No, the Curve Blade would not be used, because the Bladesong Style is a one-handed weapon and spell casting hand free style.

2 ) In the original 2E fluff, as Arakhor stated well, Drow had their own style or varient thereof, and Half-Elves didn't live long enough, really, to sudy it effectivly. Also, the Elves had a real paranoia about someone using against them, so they neer taught it to non-Elves. Ever. Period.

3 ) since this Prestige Class works off of the Bard as the Base Class to enter it, Light Armored Casting is already implied.

4 ) btw, just so everyone is clear, the reason I added Spell Training, was to give them some offensive Spell or buff Spell not normally on the Bard list to help with the Fighter / Mage concept. This is also a nice little customization, as it allows for Elven ' individuality ' to peak through.


but what if you enter it as a fighter/wizard....


You don't seem to need to, according to Bladesinger's writeup. You could be an Elven 5th level Wizard and then take 10 levels in Bladesinger. (Unless that Versatile Performance is something special that only Bards get)

Hrm, I'm not sure I like the light requirements for the class. As it stands, there's not much drawback to being a 10th level Wizard/10th level Bladesinger aside from missing out on your level 20 Specialist School Capstone ability.... and even then, I'm not positive you wouldn't get it.

Compare the prerequisites to that of the Eldritch Knight. The Bladesinger gives everything the EK gets and then some with less prerequisites. I'm not convinced it's balanced.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Dork Lord wrote:
You don't seem to need to, according to Bladesinger's writeup. You could be an Elven 5th level Wizard and then take 10 levels in Bladesinger. (Unless that Versatile Performance is something special that only Bards get

Which it is. Versatile Performance is a class ability of Bards only that allows them to make Perform checks in place of 2 skills, depending on which type of Perform they've chosen to make Versatile.


Personally, I really like the idea of doing the Bladesinger as a Bard Prestige Class. The Bard spell list will mainly support the Buff/Versatility idea without getting top heavy in Sorcerer/Wizard attack spells.

Of course, thats not to say a Wizard 3/Bard 2 or something couldn't take the class as well and then apply the spellcasting levels to their Wizard class instead.

To be honest though, I'd imagine there are some Bladesingers that would go this route. It would also give some extra variety to those folks that have the PrC.


personally I don't. Mainly because I don't play bards.


Bards have a worse rep than they deserve imo. No one seems to want to play one but when there's one in the party no one forgets about their buffs.


oh no, they dont have a bad rep from me, after all if they survive and mine doesnt, they sing at my chars funeral ......

its just that I cant play a bard...., I like to get in melee and well I get the character dead faster than my ranger.


OK, a few more clarifications then....

1) You must have 2 levels of Bard to enter the class, as it requires Versitile Performance. Bard totally fits the Bladesinger motiff ( and I could do a stright Bard and call him a Bladesinger just on Feat choice, truthfully , especially given the 2nd Ed fluff, which is what I was sticking to ).

2) You could add Fighter or Wizard Levels, and this wouldn't be a bad thing, but see #1 Above. Also, if you take the Spellcasting Levels in Wizard, they suffer the normal Arcane Spell Failure. Only the Bard Spells would be free of such problems, so there is incentive to just stick with Bard. Wizard can not enter this class alone, so there can be no Wizard 10 / Bladesinger 10.

3) I included Spell Training to shore up the Bard Spell list so multi-classing wouldn't be all that necessary, unless you the player, deemed it necessary.

As a side note, I am thinking another pre-requisite to shunt them into the Bard fully. Any suggestions ?

Dark Archive

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I wrote this about a month ago. My basic idea is that they have 2 "songs", bladesong, and spellsong. So all the abilities are based on those two concepts (pure fluff).

EDIT: It seems the formatting didn't quite make it. As for balance, in the end it's a bit powerful, but nothing too broken outright. But add in 3.5 stuff, and who knows? Also, after writing the class, I discovered Item Familiars in 3.5 Unearthed Arcana, which is pretty much what I wanted to do, so using those rules might be better. I tried to make the fun and cool abilities sooner than 3.5 since that version sucked, and it was a pain to wait for all the fun stuff.

The table won't edit, so hopefully it's readable

Bladesinger prestige class for Pathfinder engine.

Hit Dice: d10

Requirements
Race: Elf or half-elf.
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Acrobatics 3, Concentration 3, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Spellcraft 2, Perform (dance) 1 or Perform (song) 1.
Feats: Weapon Finesse (of appropriate weapon), Combat Casting, Combat Expertise
Spells: Able to cast arcane spells of level 1.

Class Skills
Acrobatics, Concentration, Knowledge (arcana), Perception, Spellcraft, and Stealth.
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + INT modifier.

Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficicency: Bladesingers gain no proficiency with any weapon. They gain proficency in light armor.

Spells per day: At every even-numbered level gained in the bladesinger class (2, 4, 6, 8, 10), the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in an arcane casting class she belonged to before adding the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before becoming a bladesinger, she must decide to which class she adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.

Bladesinger Oath: A bladesinger must dedicate herself to one specific weapon. This weapon must one that she can apply the Weapon Finesse feat to. The bladesinger forms a magical bond with the chosen weapon that creates the basis where all bladesinging abilities develop from. Once formed, the bladesinger cannot carry or wield other weapons. In addition, she always know where the general direction of the blade is, or if the blade has been destroyed. If the bladesinger does not possess her blade for more than a week, she loses all class abilities except for spell progression and is unable to gain bladesinger levels (although she can still gain XP). If lost, she must recover the blade. If destroyed, the bladesinger immediately loses XP to put her in the middle of the previous level. Forming a bond with the blade takes a week and costs 1000 gp per level of the bladesinger in cost and materials and must occur in a quiet secluded area in nature.
The bladesinger gains the Weapon Focus feat for this chosen weapon. The bladesinger applies her INT bonus (if any) as a bonus on damage rolls with her chosen weapon.

Bladesong Style (Ex): A bladesinger has learned the first steps of bladesong. When wielding the chosen weapon (and nothing else in the other hand), a bladesinger gains a dodge bonus to her AC. If the bladesinger wears medium or heavy armor, she loses all benefits of the bladesong style. This bonus increases by 1 at level 3, 5, and 7.

Spellsong Style (Ex): A bladesinger has discovered the first steps of spellsong. Once per day, a bladersinger of 2nd level or higher may quicken a single spell of up to 2nd level, as if she had used the Quicken Spell feat, but without any adjustment to the spell's effective level or casting time. A bladesinger may only use this ability when she can use Bladesong Style. Additional uses per day at level 4 and 6.

Dance of Steel (Ex): A bladesinger has found the balance between bladesong and spellsong. A bladesinger of level 4 or higher ignores arcane spell failure chances when wearing light armor.

Dance of Song (Ex): A bladesinger has greater understanding of how song and steel meld together. A bladesinger of level 6 or higher can take 10 when making a Concenration check to cast defensively. When a bladesinger must roll a Concentration check to maintain a spell after suffering damage, she can add her bladesinger level to the Concentration check as a competence bonus.

Greater Bladesong Style (Ex): A bladesinger of level 7 or higher has greater understanding of bladesong. She gains a +6 bonus on all checks made to resist being disarmed. She cannot be flanked except by rogues 6 levels higher than the bladesinger level. When using Combat Expertise, she can take a penalty upto her base attack bonus instead of the max of 5.

Great Spellsong Style (Ex): A bladesinger of level 8 or higher has a greater understanding of spellsong. Once per day, a bladersinger of 8nd level or higher may quicken a single spell of up to 4th level, as if she had used the Quicken Spell feat, but without any adjustment to the spell's effective level or casting time. A bladesinger may only use this ability when she can use Bladesong Style.

Dance of the Master Bladesinger (Ex): A bladesinger has mastered the dual arts of bladesong and spellsong. She is able to wield her blade and weave her spell with unnatural grace, skill, and speed. When performing a full attack action, the bladesinger can perform 1 additional attack using her highest base attack bonus. All attacks performed this way suffers a -2 penalty that lasts until the next round. In addition, the bladesinger can cast a spell as an immediate action between the attacks of the full attack action. The bladesinger must make a Concenration check DC 25 or lose the spell.

Table: The Bladesinger

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spells/Day
1 1 0 1 1 Bladesinger Oath, Bladesong Style (+1) 0
2 2 1 1 1 Spellsong Style 1/day +1
3 3 1 2 2 Bladesong Style (+2) 0
4 4 1 2 2 Dance of Steel, Spellsong Style 2/day +1
5 5 2 3 3 Bladesong Style (+3) 0
6 6 2 3 3 Dance of Song, Spellsong Style 3/day +1
7 7 2 4 4 Bladesong Style (+4) 0
8 8 3 4 4 Great Spellsong Style +1
9 9 3 5 5 Greater Bladesong Style 0
10 10 3 5 5 Dance of the Master Bladesinger +1

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