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Someone on this board once said that there was an even split between the Conservative and Liberal voices on this board. I say BS.
Whatever happened to the Liberal voices here? Where is the Obamalove? Isn't gaming Satanic? That alone should make D&D a primarily Democratic pursuit. Anyone who adores the monster that is Sarah Palin should fork the sign of the Evil Eye every time Gary Gygax's name is mentioned.
So if you are a Liberal, here is the place to raise your flag. I expect Conservative invasion of the thread within the hour; but I hope that more than one or two fellow Liberals to post in here. Are there any Progressives left at Paizo.com?
Yes, we do exist and are not in foxholes. :P
Are you trying to start a flame war?
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Are you trying to start a flame war?
No. I am trying to provide a counterpoint to the Reagan thread. I don't miss Reagan. What I do miss are gamers that care more for their fellow man than for lower taxes and expecting people to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps". I see lots of Obamahate and Liberal-bashing on these boards; maybe I'm missing the pro-Libby threads? Personally, I get tired of all the Right-leaning rhetoric. Over half the country voted for change and moving away from Conservatism. So why is that split not represented on this board? Just trying to balance the scales a little.
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You should check out many of the threads in the off-topic forum. This year has included quite a number of political debates and both sides are represented. In general though, we try to keep politics to that forum so that they don't cause flame wars other places.
Well that is why I posted it in the Off-Topic forum. I do check these forums pretty much every day. I scan through them pretty diligently, and I rarely find pro-Obama or Democrat threads. And when I do, it doesn't take long before the Usual Suspects drop by to crap on them either.
I call it devil's advocacy with a lot of shades of gray.
But to be honest, I never saw gamers as a bastion of conservative stereotypes. At least not the ones I run in similar circles with. *shrug*
I'm progressive!
I think the boards are pretty well balanced, actually, though up until yesterday I hadn't posted much recently. Sorry to leave your flank unguarded! ;-)
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I call it devil's advocacy with a lot of shades of gray.
But to be honest, I never saw gamers as a bastion of conservative stereotypes. At least not the ones I run in similar circles with. *shrug*
My current Face to Face group (ROTR) has 4 players and all are relatively Liberal. My DDO VTT group (AoW) has 4 Conservative (but one is Canadian Conservative) and one Libby (my wife); but all are relative Moderate in their outlook. My WoW VTT group (ST) has 2 extreme Conservatives and 3 Moderate Liberals in it. So in real life, the trend holds to that nationwide vote.
Aw, c'mon, give the conservatives a break. They're going to have to live with 8 years of Obama after 8 years of being embarrassed by Bush. I think they've earned the right to gripe a lot. I know there was a lot of griping by the more liberal-minded during the Bush-Cheney administration.
Besides, not everyone of a liberal mind is exactly ecstatic with Obama so far.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Yes, we do exist and are not in foxholes. :P
Note to self, dig more foxholes. :P
Seriously, I'm conservative and like Sarahcudda, so neener.
I've made an arguement on one of the political blogs that I think a coalition needs to be built, but also needs to be professional enough to understand that it's always going to be in flux.
I'll reach 'across the Aisle' to fight against a 'gays can't teach in schools' law that might be proposed by the Pat Robertson branch on the right, or the Fred Phelps wing on the left. At the same time, I'll fight the death tax and look for allies where I can get them. Do I seem to have shifting loyalties? Nope, because I'm clear on where I stand and on what I can compromise. If I can't abolish the death tax, but can get it lowered, I'll take the partial victory.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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My current Face to Face group (ROTR) has 4 players and all are relatively Liberal. My DDO VTT group (AoW) has 4 Conservative (but one is Canadian Conservative) and one Libby (my wife); but all are relative Moderate in their outlook. My WoW VTT group (ST) has 2 extreme Conservatives and 3 Moderate Liberals in it. So in real life, the trend holds to that nationwide vote.I call it devil's advocacy with a lot of shades of gray.
But to be honest, I never saw gamers as a bastion of conservative stereotypes. At least not the ones I run in similar circles with. *shrug*
My old group had 3 conservatives, 1 non-aligned (the ex-wife mentioned elsewhere) and two libs. The libs were often worried to find they agreed with us.
A few thoughts to consider.
1) Anybody hoping to compete in RPG Superstar is wise to stay balanced and focused on RPG stuff if possible.
2) People with strong opinions aren't going to change their minds based on a messageboard post. You're better off talking it over a beer than a board.
3) Ideologies can be different, but most people want the same things. Have a decent life, with security and a couple luxuries.
Also, RPGs can be something that bring us together. I imagine some Editors and Writers don't always share the same political views as their fans. It doesn't make either appreciate the other any less.
Chucky, its sounds like you're feeling isolated and alone, and that will drive anybody crazy. I sympathize. But you might want to start looking at this site in the context of all the things you do have in common with the other people here. Like a love of gaming.
Folks here can your friends, and when they're not, they can still be your peers and colleagues.
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I'm progressive!
I think the boards are pretty well balanced, actually, though up until yesterday I hadn't posted much recently. Sorry to leave your flank unguarded! ;-)
Oh yeah, I never doubted your allegiances! Maybe it is the recent spate of Obama bashing that makes it seem unbalanced to me. But even when Bush was President, it seemed like the majority would always be there to leap to his defense about waterboarding and wiretapping and all the other stuff.
What I'd love to see is some unabashed support for Obama and his attempts to get our nation back to what it once was; something to be proud of. Yes, he has made mistakes, but compared to his predecessor, he is doing amazingly well. Good Lord, we gave Bush a second term; these people don't want to give Obama a second year! It is ridiculous.
...I'm clear on where I stand and on what I can compromise. If I can't abolish the death tax, but can get it lowered, I'll take the partial victory.
While I disagree with your stand on the death tax, I do applaud your willingness to compromise. If I were your opposite number, I would give ground on the death tax if you gave something in exchange.
The problem is that few of the people in actual power right now seem willing to do the same.
My poltitcal points of view are contrary to what most people think is sane. Therefore I keep them mostly to myself.
I thought Obama was a gamer anyway.
I'll reach 'across the Aisle' to fight against a 'gays can't teach in schools' law that might be proposed by the Pat Robertson branch on the right, or the Fred Phelps wing on the left. At the same time, I'll fight the death tax and look for allies where I can get them. Do I seem to have shifting loyalties? Nope, because I'm clear on where I stand and on what I can compromise. If I can't abolish the death tax, but can get it lowered, I'll take the partial victory.
Phelps is a leftist? Surely you jest. I may have to commit Hari Kari. :P
What I'd love to see is some unabashed support for Obama and his attempts to get our nation back to what it once was; something to be proud of. Yes, he has made mistakes, but compared to his predecessor, he is doing amazingly well. Good Lord, we gave Bush a second term; these people don't want to give Obama a second year! It is ridiculous.
I agree, though I have a strong dislike of what I perceive to be an abysmal performance on the deficit. I also wish he'd done more to roll back the Bush Administration expansion of Executive Branch powers. But I retain a healthy respect for both his intellect and his intentions.
In any event, it's far too early to judge his tenure as president, whether it lasts four years or eight. Clinton, for example, was widely considered a likely one-termer at this point in his presidency (IIRC).
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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What I'd love to see is some unabashed support for Obama and his attempts to get our nation back to what it once was; something to be proud of. Yes, he has made mistakes, but compared to his predecessor, he is doing amazingly well. Good Lord, we gave Bush a second term; these people don't want to give Obama a second year! It is ridiculous.
No offence intended, but I don't think it's a lack of wanting 'to get our nation back.. to be proud of' it's a matter of not believing the methods he impliments will do it. (At least for me).
I try to argue from data for that reason, do I fail? Hells yes. but I try.
Watcher,
I understand where you're coming from about the RPG superstar. Heck Jame Jacobs has put forth some of his views that are directly opposed to mine, as has Sean, and I respect them both. And yes, I try to keep that in mind as well since my nick has that 2009 tag on it. I've debated in asking Ross to remove it, so I could 'cut loose' more, but have decided against it as it keeps my better nature at the fore.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Phelps is a leftist? Surely you jest. I may have to commit Hari Kari. :P
I'll reach 'across the Aisle' to fight against a 'gays can't teach in schools' law that might be proposed by the Pat Robertson branch on the right, or the Fred Phelps wing on the left. At the same time, I'll fight the death tax and look for allies where I can get them. Do I seem to have shifting loyalties? Nope, because I'm clear on where I stand and on what I can compromise. If I can't abolish the death tax, but can get it lowered, I'll take the partial victory.
Registered Democrat, devout (pun intended) Al Gore fan. On the more political blogs I will often put 'Fred Phelps (D-Hell)' because I hold him in contempt. He's claimed by the left about as much as David Duke and Pat Buchannan are by the right, but there he sits. A pimple on the left butt cheek of humanity.
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A few thoughts to consider.
1) Anybody hoping to compete in RPG Superstar is wise to stay balanced and focused on RPG stuff if possible.
2) People with strong opinions aren't going to change their minds based on a messageboard post. You're better off talking it over a beer than a board.
3) Ideologies can be different, but most people want the same things. Have a decent life, with security and a couple luxuries.
Also, RPGs can be something that bring us together. I imagine some Editors and Writers don't always share the same political views as their fans. It doesn't make either appreciate the other any less.
Chucky, its sounds like you're feeling isolated and alone, and that will drive anybody crazy. I sympathize. But you might want to start looking at this site in the context of all the things you do have in common with the other people here. Like a love of gaming.
Folks here can your friends, and when they're not, they can still be your peers and colleagues.
This is a thoughtful post. But I don't feel isolated and alone, at least not in the real world. I've got great charisma and have many RL friends (in at least 5 states no less). I'm happily married and have 4 great cats that I spoil. I have over 300 FB friends (and I argue politics with many of them as well). No I am doing fine as far as companionship goes.
But I am passionate about politics. And I am often victim to my passions versus my rational judgment. Can I change the views of folks like David Fryer or Matthew Morris? I'm certainly not fool enough to believe that. But neither can I sit idly by while people say flamebait things like "Obama couldn't carry Reagan's jockstrap." I mean, think about how asinine and stupid a statement like that is. It's also wrong. People that make statements like that need to be shown the error of their ways.
Will my futile resistance make a difference? Hell no. But it makes me feel better. Hell, it SCARES me that there are people in the same world as I live in that think Sarah Palin is qualified to do anything other than raise a family. But it's a free country, even if the fringe elements are making it a scary place to exist in right now.
The question is: do we really WANT to be friends with people that have fringe views like that? What is more crucial: that I share a love of gaming with these people or that they hold views that run extremely counter to my value system? Where do we draw the line and how seriously do we take the things some people write on a message board?
Wow, that got a lot more serious than I ever meant it to. Must be the weather. Carry on.
Watcher,
I understand where you're coming from about the RPG superstar. Heck Jame Jacobs has put forth some of his views that are directly opposed to mine, as has Sean, and I respect them both. And yes, I try to keep that in mind as well since my nick has that 2009 tag on it. I've debated in asking Ross to remove it, so I could 'cut loose' more, but have decided against it as it keeps my better nature at the fore.
I hear ya. The contest has found me writing many posts, only to cancel them out or delete them second later. And just like you, part of me wonders if that isn't just for the best anyway.
I am sympathetic to Chucky though.. It sucks when you view a place as your community and as a social network as well as a hobby network.. only to suddenly feel isolated and alone.
EDIT: Chucky, disregard the last paragraph.. we cross posted and I'm reading your new post responding to me.
...but neither can I sit idly by while people say flamebait things like "Obama couldn't carry Reagan's jockstrap." I mean, think about how asinine and stupid a statement like that is. It's also wrong. People that make statements like that need to be shown the error of their ways.
Will my futile resistance make a difference? Hell no. But it makes me feel better. Hell, it SCARES me that there are people in the same world as I live in that...
That's the key, man. It's flamebait. Treat it as such.
The fact is Obama is better educated than Reagan, He's almost certainly smarter. Will he make a better president? I certainly hope (and expect) that he will, but time will tell.
Bear in mind that there will be people that logic just can't reach, and don't beat your head against that wall. You'll be happier for it.
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Flag raise.
I try to avoid political arguments on message boards, but sometimes I feel I gotta pipe up when I see baseless attacks. Then I once again realize that arguing with a conservative is like arguing with a brick wall.
Also, when I say conservative, I am talking about the new version of conservative; like the Palins and the Bushies that think it is conservative to legislate what the rest of us do while at the same time calling for less gubbament.
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Watcher,
I understand where you're coming from about the RPG superstar. Heck Jame Jacobs has put forth some of his views that are directly opposed to mine, as has Sean, and I respect them both. And yes, I try to keep that in mind as well since my nick has that 2009 tag on it. I've debated in asking Ross to remove it, so I could 'cut loose' more, but have decided against it as it keeps my better nature at the fore.
I hear ya. The contest has found me writing many posts, only to cancel them out or delete them second later. And just like you, part of me wonders if that isn't just for the best anyway.
I am sympathetic to Chucky though.. It sucks when you view a place as your community and as a social network as well as a hobby network.. only to suddenly feel isolated and alone.
EDIT: Chucky, disregard the last paragraph.. we cross posted and I'm reading your new post responding to me.
I probably should enter the RPG Superstar thingy. I've been DMing for over 30 years now and have created my fair share of content. However, I've just finished a full-time stint as a student to reinvent myself for the job market (no one hires QC/proofreaders anymore), DM 3 monthly D&D groups, keeping duties as a full-time househusband until I can get a job again, run my Browncoats guild in the DDO MMO, and try to keep up with around 20 hours of television a week. Did I brag yet about how I finished up my degree with a 4.0 GPA? Sorry, but keeping that GPA was a time-consuming and stressful process, so I am kind of proud of it. And as of Monday, the job search begins. So maybe next year....
I'm so liberal I fear that my touch will sear the flesh of my conservative counterparts.
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But I am passionate about politics. And I am often victim to my passions versus my rational judgment. Can I change the views of folks like David Fryer or Matthew Morris? I'm certainly not fool enough to believe that. But neither can I sit idly by while people say flamebait things like "Obama couldn't carry Reagan's jockstrap." I mean, think about how asinine and stupid a statement like that is. It's also wrong. People that make statements like that need to be shown the error of their ways.
When did I ever make a statement like that? I try and keep my comments as polite as possible, because you attract more bees with honey than you do with vinegar. In fact I voted for President Obama because I believed that he would be a new kind of president. However, I have not seen that yet. To be honset I would rather sit down and talk with liberals than I would with conservatives, because I can learn more from talking to liberals. In the past few monthes I have been in more disagreementswith people that you would list as "being on my side" then on the other side of the political spectrum. In fact I have spoken out against the idea that politics is a gmae where we choose sides and one team has to loose for the other side to win.
Edit: And I would never go so far as to call someone out as an example of something they haven't done.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Flag raise.
I try to avoid political arguments on message boards, but sometimes I feel I gotta pipe up when I see baseless attacks. Then I once again realize that arguing with a conservative is like arguing with a brick wall.
Also, when I say conservative, I am talking about the new version of conservative; like the Palins and the Bushies that think it is conservative to legislate what the rest of us do while at the same time calling for less gubbament.
Hmm, I'm not sure 'new conservative' means the same thing to both of us. Not aware of Palin wanting to legislate behaviour (something the states do all the time) and most of the staff at NRO now are comparable in age as I and they're still the 'conservative flagship'.
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But I am passionate about politics. And I am often victim to my passions versus my rational judgment. Can I change the views of folks like David Fryer or Matthew Morris? I'm certainly not fool enough to believe that. But neither can I sit idly by while people say flamebait things like "Obama couldn't carry Reagan's jockstrap." I mean, think about how asinine and stupid a statement like that is. It's also wrong. People that make statements like that need to be shown the error of their ways.
When did I ever make a statement like that? I try and keep my comments as polite as possible, because you attract more bees with honey than you do with vinegar. In fact I voted for President Obama because I believed that he would be a new kind of president. However, I have not seen that yet. To be honset I would rather sit down and talk with liberals than I would with conservatives, because I can learn more from talking to liberals. In the past few monthes I have been in more disagreementswith people that you would list as "being on my side" then on the other side of the political spectrum. In fact I have spoken out against the idea that politics is a gmae where we choose sides and one team has to loose for the other side to win.
Edit: And I would never go so far as to call someone out as an example of something they haven't done.
You didn't make that statement. It was some guy with "Houston" in his name. Sorry if there was an insinuation otherwise in my statement above.
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I'm talking about trying to make laws to block equal rights to certain groups of people, trying to make laws to force science teachers to teach nonsense instead of or along side real science. These things are not conservative values, they are more government intrusion, which is the opposite of what conservatives call for.
But I am passionate about politics. And I am often victim to my passions versus my rational judgment. Can I change the views of folks like David Fryer or Matthew Morris? I'm certainly not fool enough to believe that. But neither can I sit idly by while people say flamebait things like "Obama couldn't carry Reagan's jockstrap." I mean, think about how asinine and stupid a statement like that is. It's also wrong. People that make statements like that need to be shown the error of their ways.
When did I ever make a statement like that? I try and keep my comments as polite as possible, because you attract more bees with honey than you do with vinegar. In fact I voted for President Obama because I believed that he would be a new kind of president. However, I have not seen that yet. To be honset I would rather sit down and talk with liberals than I would with conservatives, because I can learn more from talking to liberals. In the past few monthes I have been in more disagreementswith people that you would list as "being on my side" then on the other side of the political spectrum. In fact I have spoken out against the idea that politics is a gmae where we choose sides and one team has to loose for the other side to win.
Edit: And I would never go so far as to call someone out as an example of something they haven't done.
The way I read that, you were only mentioned in the first sentence as a true believer of your political ideals, impossible to sway. The second part was unattributed to a single person, and aimed at specifically aggressive, inflammatory things that some people say.
But I am passionate about politics. And I am often victim to my passions versus my rational judgment. Can I change the views of folks like David Fryer or Matthew Morris? I'm certainly not fool enough to believe that. But neither can I sit idly by while people say flamebait things like "Obama couldn't carry Reagan's jockstrap." I mean, think about how asinine and stupid a statement like that is. It's also wrong. People that make statements like that need to be shown the error of their ways.
I'm with ya.
Sometimes it seems easy to just hurl names right back. I don't think that does anything to dial back the rhetoric. It just heightens and escalates everything.
On the other hand, you're right.. when you stand back and do nothing they just roll over you. Other people (not you) really do start to feel isolated and alone, because they don't hear any other voices.
I noticed that Obama, whatever you think of him, doesn't get pulled off his square very easily. He doesn't take a lot of the baiting. (It happens sometimes though!) He lets his rivals exhaust themselves, and then reasserts his position. It certainly worked in the election. Take that as inspiration. Tell them you can't take cheap shots, name-calling, and histrionics as legitimate mature political discourse, and if they expect to be taken seriously- then they need to go back and try again.
I guess I wanted to step in as a voice of moderation when I read someone accusing you of starting a flamewar. I didn't want to see you get smeared. It looks like this will be a more balanced response.
I hope.
Registered Democrat, devout (pun intended) Al Gore fan. On the more political blogs I will often put 'Fred Phelps (D-Hell)' because I hold him in contempt. He's claimed by the left about as much as David Duke and Pat Buchannan are by the right, but there he sits. A pimple on the left butt cheek of humanity.
Thank goodness I'm an Independent. Else I'll have to slit my wrists knowing I share any affiliation with that guy. He reminds me of Randall Flagg from The Stand. :P
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I'm talking about trying to make laws to block equal rights to certain groups of people, trying to make laws to force science teachers to teach nonsense instead of or along side real science. These things are not conservative values, they are more government intrusion, which is the opposite of what conservatives call for.
As a conservative, I believe that government just needs to get out of the marriage buisness. It is the only way that the First and Fourteenth ammendments can be fully satisfied. However, if there has to be a law, I would like to see a law like DC just passed. I believe that outside of broad guidelines the government should not be telling teachers what to teach at all. It has gotten so bad that in some districts in Utah, teachers have to have their lesson plans preapproved to ensure that they don't teach anything that could get them in trouble. I also believe that compassion is not measured by how many people a government program can help, but by how many people we help to not need them anymore. If you want I can go on.
Anyone who adores the monster that is Sarah Palin should fork the sign of the Evil Eye every time Gary Gygax's name is mentioned.
We didn't star the Flame War, it was always going since the world was turning.
Really a Monster??? many on the Conservative side would say the same about your beloved Obama or Nancy Pelosi i.e. in one of the local Dutch newspaper's today they declared Obama better then Jesus!!
But I don't come to the Paizo boards to drink my red Kool-Aid and if I want to anger the liberal base I just pop on Huffingtion Post and ask why Keith Olbermann is too afarid to debate differing opinions.
I come here to talk about the joys of D&D and my love of Satanism in all it's forms.
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I'm with ya.
Sometimes it seems easy to just hurl names right back. I don't think that does anything to dial back the rhetoric. It just heightens and escalates everything.
On the other hand, you're right.. when you stand back and do nothing they just roll over you. Other people (not you) really do start to feel isolated and alone, because they don't hear any other voices.
I noticed that Obama, whatever you think of him, doesn't get pulled off his square very easily. He doesn't take a lot of the baiting. (It happens sometimes though!) He lets his rivals exhaust themselves, and then reasserts his position. It certainly worked in the election. Take that as inspiration. Tell them you can't take cheap shots, name-calling, and histrionics as legitimate mature political discourse, and even they expect to be taken seriously- then they need to go back and try again.
I guess I wanted to step in as a voice of moderation when I read someone accusing you of starting a flamewar. I didn't want to see you get smeared. It looks like this will be a more balanced response.
I hope.
And I very much appreciate that. Thank you.
I suppose in a way, I did feel isolated, on these boards at least. The Liberal voices here (as in the real world) tend to be quieter than the Conservative ones. I think we Dems can learn some lessons from those on the right. Lessons like the loudest voice in the room is the one that gets heard, and that the "take no prisoners" attitude often beats a more compassionate and gentle approach. The Republican party has always been great at putting up a staunch defense and being obstructionists. When they are against something, they pull together like 300 Spartans and hold the line. Democrats could use a little more of that aggressive backbone in their methodology.
Guess I'd like to see the Liberals get a little more aggressive here as well; to put up a better fight. I've never been one to "turn the other cheek." :)
Will my futile resistance make a difference? Hell no. But it makes me feel better. Hell, it SCARES me that there are people in the same world as I live in that think Sarah Palin is qualified to do anything other than raise a family. But it's a free country, even if the fringe elements are making it a scary place to exist in right now.
The question is: do we really WANT to be friends with people that have fringe views like that? What is more crucial: that I share a love of gaming with these people or that they hold views that run extremely counter to my value system? Where do we draw the line and how seriously do we take the things some people write on a message board?
I truely love when the tolerance preaching left get on a roll and post things so sexist and hateful as this. Thinking Sarah Palin can be more than a brownie baking housewife is a 'fringe' view? Really? I bet you think she said she could see Russia from her back yard and believe that she called Santa a socialist. Don't ya?
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As a conservative, I believe that government just needs to get out of the marriage buisness. It is the only way that the First and Fourteenth ammendments can be fully satisfied. However, if there has to be a law, I would like to see a law like DC just passed. I believe that outside of broad guidelines the government should not be telling teachers what to teach at all. It has gotten so bad that in some districts in Utah, teachers have to have their lesson plans preapproved to ensure that they don't teach anything that could get them in trouble. I also believe that compassion is not measured by how many people a government program can help, but by how many people we help to not need them anymore. If you want I can go on.
No need, I agree with everything you have just said.
My current group is one liberal (who is developing Libertarian leanings), a conservative (also developing Libertarian leanings), and 4 Libertarians.
Personal freedom, personal choice.... as the Constitution states (paraphrased - don't have a copy on me), any rights not specifically spelled out within as reserved for the states or the federal government shall rest with the individual. A principle that has not just been forgotten, it has been actively run over, shot, stabbed, hung, drowned, and poisoned.
Conservatives drive me crazy for their tendencies to restrict what women can do with their own bodies, what personal freedoms its ok to violate in the name of a little security, and what can or can't be taught in our schools.
Liberals drive me crazy for their tendencies to give away money to those who aren't willing to earn it themselves, to protect the minority (be it ethnic, religious, or creed) at the expense of the majority, and what can or can't be taught in our schools.
Still, I'm a realist and know that short of bloody revolution or a complete breakdown in our society, no 3rd party candidate will ever be President (at least, not in my lifetime). So every four to eight years, I alternate which of the big two parties I vote for. The rationale for this is that each party is screwing up our country, but at least they do it in opposite directions so hopefully we'll remain at least a little steady. (Bush, though... wooo - gonna take a while to fix that cluster)
As a conservative, I believe that government just needs to get out of the marriage buisness. It is the only way that the First and Fourteenth ammendments can be fully satisfied. However, if there has to be a law, I would like to see a law like DC just passed. I believe that outside of broad guidelines the government should not be telling teachers what to teach at all. It has gotten so bad that in some districts in Utah, teachers have to have their lesson plans preapproved to ensure that they don't teach anything that could get them in trouble. I also believe that compassion is not measured by how many people a government program can help, but by how many people we help to not need them anymore. If you want I can go on.No need, I agree with everything you have just said.
+1 again. Refreshing to see that there are some things we can agree on. I just wish that was the focus instead of "winning" every argument.
Also, David, you've stated before that you do not approve or enjoy the right's embrace of religion along with politics. Are there many other conservatives who agree with you? Or have they been cowed into silence, as many believe?
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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So, who wants in on the betting pool for how many posts it will take before this thread gets locked? I'm going with 114 - it's early enough in the morning in Seattle that the Paizo guys will take a while to respond, but it's already burning hot enough that it'll get to page 3 within an hour.
It's $20 to enter the pool.
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Anyone who adores the monster that is Sarah Palin should fork the sign of the Evil Eye every time Gary Gygax's name is mentioned.We didn't star the Flame War, it was always going since the world was turning.
Really a Monster??? many on the Conservative side would say the same about your beloved Obama or Nancy Pelosi i.e. in one of the local Dutch newspaper's today they declared Obama better then Jesus!!
But I don't come to the Paizo boards to drink my red Kool-Aid and if I want to anger the liberal base I just pop on Huffingtion Post and ask why Keith Olbermann is too afarid to debate differing opinions.
I come here to talk about the joys of D&D and my love of Satanism in all it's forms.
Ah, Keith is the man!
This is why this is in the Off-Topic forum. Hey, when the Obama (and Pelosi) haters stop coming to Paizo to vent their bile; then I'll rein my bile in too.
Sometimes I think Paizo should have the EnWorld policy of no politics or religion on their messageboards. But then, I also have to admit that I find that EnWorld policy to be stifling and Draconian and I applaud Paizo for their bravery and open-mindedness. So it will ever be a warzone for politics!
But you can always avoid the political threads I suppose. I certainly try (and fail) to avoid them daily myself.
Good to see my bait worked. Bad to see it caught the wrong fish.
Way to go, Palpatine.
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So, who wants in on the betting pool for how many posts it will take before this thread gets locked? I'm going with 114 - it's early enough in the morning in Seattle that the Paizo guys will take a while to respond, but it's already burning hot enough that it'll get to page 3 within an hour.
It's $20 to enter the pool.
Nah, this isn't burning that hot. Otherwise, they would have locked the Reagan thread a long time ago.
Well if you want a liberal gamer, I'm about as liberal as they get. I'm a male feminist, I am part of my university's LGBTQIA Safe Space Committee, I recycle, I think Obama is awesome, and I live in the Los Angeles area.
I do voice my political views on this board quite frequently. However, I think they tend to get drowned out a little by the more conservative posts. I don't think that means that there aren't any liberal voices on the board. As a former conservative myself, I find that conservatives are just a little louder and more brazen about voicing their opinions. Liberals tend to be a little softer. I can't say why that is in general, but I have found that I tend to win over more people by simply laying out facts rather than taking a particular stance on issues.
I'll reach 'across the Aisle' to fight against a 'gays can't teach in schools' law that might be proposed by the Pat Robertson branch on the right, or the Fred Phelps wing on the left.
Speaking as a Kansas Democrat, just because Phred calls himself a dem, doesn't necessarily make it so. You could proclaim yourself the last Emperor of China, but history may suggest otherwise. He did support Gore in the 80's, but quickly rescinded that support after Gore's opposition to gay rights proved to be transient.
This is akin to claiming that Lieberman is a liberal just because he caucuses with the Democrats.
As far as gaming groups. Mine contains Christians, atheists and at least one pagan/wiccan. Liberals, conservatives and independents. We all get along just fine and even occasionally discuss matters of the world not related to gaming.
People who don't think exactly as I do are idiots and not worthy breathe the same air I do is an asinine and pigheaded way to think. And those (On all sides) who do, really need to get over themselves.