In Pathfinder RPG, how can one make it so that an Abjurer is even slightly better at dispel checks?
The only effect I can find that will help in this regard is the Varisian Tattoo from the Runelords Player's Guide, and this comes with a preposterous pre-requisite (Spell Focus [abjuration]) and the second ability (more cantrips) is now totally obsolete.
I am happy to make a house rule to fix this, but it really seems like the kind of thing you should be able to have! Am I missing something?
Nothing?
Does this mean that every single caster in the game is equal with respect to dispelling magic, and that even putting all your feats toward this ability will garner you absolutely no advantage over another caster of the same level?! What on earth is the abjurer?
Since I can't find anything basic to solve this problem, I'm going to have to invent some feats.
Idea 1: Spell Focus feat grants +1 to Spell Save DC and +1 to caster level checks for the chosen school. Could have unforeseen consequences, but it does help those poor abjurers who are forced into spell focus pre-reqs.
Idea 2: "Spell Disruption" feat, grants a +2 to caster level for checks and rolls to end ongoing spell effects, as well as spellcraft checks to identify spells. Includes dispel magic, greater dispel magic, banishment, dismissal, anti-magic field, mage's disjunction, and similar effects. A greater version grants an additional +2. This is modeled after spell penetration, but I'm still on the fence as to whether is is actually worth a feat slot.
I'm open to other ideas, especially if somebody knows a solution from the core rules (or even a good splatbook).
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The thing is, spellcasters don't need all that much help; the top three "best" classes in the game are still the Wizard, Druid, and Cleric. They aren't as far ahead of the curve as they used to be, but they still win. Any kind of generic solution would be aid to the classes that need it least.
Also, dispelling a spell shouldn't be automatic. I agree that it would be nice if there was a way to focus on "anti-magic magic", but that's a more general discussion.
Most importantly, the reason abjurers aren't any better at dispelling is simple: there's not enough room in the core book to provide perfect support for every single possible build of every single possible class right out of the gate. When working on the core book, the developers had to focus on getting the core rules right, and making sure that there's enough support for enough different character concepts out of the box.
Wizards that wanted to focus on Abjuration in 3.5 were even worse off, and there's only 3ish classes and a half dozen feats that cater to that specific niche concept after eight whole years and over a hundred published books.
Pathfinder has been officially in print for less than six months, and gets to draw from roughly five of the above books.
They don't have time to worry about helping out one part of one eighth of a single class; they are still trying to deal with magic items, monsters as PCs, and filling in gaping holes in the system regarding very common and generic character concepts, like a "priest" who casts divine spells without wearing armor and not sucking.
Give them time. They will get to abjurers eventually, and I firmly believe they will expand Abjurers toolbox without making them more powerful. A bonus to dispelling spells is not game breaking, but inserting it isn't exactly a priority for the publisher at the moment.
Right, I apologize for my lack of clarity. You seem to feel I was evaluating the product as a whole based on the lack of this power. Rather, I am presuming that it can be done, and I don't personally know how.
Anyway, I don't expect the game to cover ever niche in the core book. And I don't think abjurers should have the abilities given to them just because of their school choice — more DC dependent schools must still invest in the proper feats. I am a little surprised by the lack of feats that benefit non-DC dependent casters (abjurers and others), but rather than complain about it I want to know what to do in my game about it. That means either a good house rule (which I always like advice on the unintended consequences thereof) or a rule from a sourcebook I may not have or know well.
That's all I'm asking for. Any help you can provide will be much appreciated!
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Ah, in that case, lets see.
First, there's the horribly broken Incantrix.
It's a prestige class from the 3.5 Player's Guide to Faerun.
Warning: it is horribly, terribly broken. Meaning that a Wizard 10 / Incantrix 10 was universally regarded as being better than a wizard 20, which was already universally regarded as being better than just about any other class in the game. If your GM balks at it, offer to reduce the metamagic benefits it gets, as that's not what you care about anyway.
They get auto-forced into Abjuration specialization (just make it a requirement to get in in pathfinder, and ignore the specialization notes it describes; simplifies things and brings the power down a bit, which is GOOD).
They get bonuses for dispelling summoned outsiders, get immunity to death effects, get bonus metamagic feats, and get to use metamagic easier. They also get to eat magic items.
These guys focus on exploring the boundaries of magic. Mostly the rules focus on metamagic, which leads to them being, as mentioned, horribly broken, but it's a solid concept, and I'd use it as a loose base for making a dispeller focused class from scratch.
Best of all, they were previewed on the WotC site, so you don't need to book to check them out. Link: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010803
There's also the Arcane Devotee and Spellguard of Silvermoon, from the same book. I don't have previews for them, and they aren't particularly abjuration focused, but there's potential bits you could use.
The other big one to look at is the Master Specialist, from the Complete Mage, another 3.5 book. I don't have a preview for that, either, and it is from the later days of 3.5, when the power creep was getting really bad, but it might have what you want.
I'd have to actually sit down and page through all the books I have to do better.
Worth noting: I am the GM in question, and I'm looking for some moderate measures to make a 7th level Abjurer PC happy.
So the problem is, you make an Abjurer, you play him to 7th level, and you realize then that you are no better at dispelling effects than the next guy. I actually like his concept, and I don't think he should be left out in the cold like this. I'm happy to houserule it, but only once I've fully explored the existing options (as house rules cause chain reactions in my experience).
Prestige class isn't really a solution as far as I'm concerned, I'd like to be able to do this within the framework of the abjurer... which means it's probably going to be a feat. I really feel this should be an ability on par with spell focus or spell penetration — using a whole prestige class is overdoing it.
Plus, those PrCs come with a ton of plot baggage, and as a GM I find it distasteful to use them in a vacuum like that.
It's an interesting problem, and you should go ahead and provide something for your player to take.
My suggestions:
Is 3.5 allowed? If so, there are several options.
As the DM - a simple option would be to allow your player to take the Master Specialist PrC from complete mage.
It got 1/2 its level in bonus to dispel magic checks.
Thanks Majuba!
Probably just give the cantrip at will though.
We're in Pathfinder RPG — the cantrip is already at-will. I'm open to suggestions. Granting a 1st level spell for times-per-day as given for cantrips in the feat description seems overpowered to me.
Dispel Focus feat - +3 to caster level checks to dispels (or *maybe* also to the other checks mentioned above). +2 is too little, +4 would be an awful lot. No "greater" version. This swings an even encounter to 65/35 (2:1 success). With Varisian Tattoo, 70/30.
I dunno, +2 might be a little weak, but +4 is not too powerful considering you sank two feats into it.
Augment Protection (?) - perhaps create some equivalent to Augment Summoning for Abjuration.
This is an interesting idea, because Augment Summon is very similar in concept — you get better at one specific kind of spell within a school. Any suggestions for an Augmented Dispel feat that would differ somehow from Dispel Focus above?
We need some kind of Dispelling Feat, but how much of a bonus to this one application is worth a feat slot?
Majuba's ideas sound like a good start.
Varisian Tattoo certainly seems to come with plot baggage,
but if you LIKE said baggage, no problem, right?
re: the cantrip, I would make it one more (abjuration) cantrip slot, at-will like the rest.
In parallel, you could have a Feat making the Abjurer's OWN spells HARDER to dispell/disjoin/etc.
I could see a Feat allowing a successful Spellcraft (or an opposed Caster Level check, using any Dispel bonuses) to grant a bonus to Targetted Dispels (vs. single ID'd effect), which counters the Save-or-Suck vs. Multiple Chances to Suck aspect of Targetted vs. "Whatever" Dispels.
Maybe also make the bonus apply to Counter-Spells, since that is effectively a Readied Dispel, whether or not you use a Dispel Magic spell or not... (On that note, a way to reduce the spell level adjustment for Quicken ONLY for Counterspelling could be a useful ability for this type of Caster)
Thanks Majuba!
Augment Protection (?) - perhaps create some equivalent to Augment Summoning for Abjuration. This is an interesting idea, because Augment Summon is very similar in concept — you get better at one specific kind of spell within a school. Any suggestions for an Augmented Dispel feat that would differ somehow from Dispel Focus above?
We need some kind of Dispelling Feat, but how much of a bonus to this one application is worth a feat slot?
For Augment Protection type, something like a 50% extending on the duration of abjuration spells. Perhaps +2 to any resistance it grants? (DR 12 from stoneskin, Resist 12 from resist energy, etc.)
I think +3 from a single slot is appropriate. I do think +4 (especially with *anything* that can stack with it) is getting to be too much, even for two feats. This is primarily because the "edge" of a caster level advantage is a main part of the power of a higher level caster's power - too easy dispelling would make for very quick and boring encounters. So give a good bonus, just don't let it stack up too much.
Extra side note: Varisian Tattoo would make resist energy do 20 and 30 resist a level earlier as an extra bonus.
In parallel, you could have a Feat making the Abjurer's OWN spells HARDER to dispell/disjoin/etc.
I had made a line of feats that related to this.
Spell Connection: "awareness" of spell within long range (as in, you know if any of your active spells have been dispelled, triggered, etc.), and +2 vs. Dispel within that range.
Greater Spell Connection: "Aware" out to 1 mile/level, +2 vs. Dispel to that range, +4 w/in long range, dismiss spells as a move action.
Epic Spell Connection: "Aware" on same plane, +2 vs. dispel, +4 at mile/level, +6 w/in long range, dismiss as a free action.
Majuba's ideas sound like a good start.
Varisian Tattoo certainly seems to come with plot baggage,
but if you LIKE said baggage, no problem, right?
Yeah. But the Abjurer in this case is not only Varisian, he is very Varisian. So it isn't plot baggage, it's part of his core concept. Not the case with a prestige class.
Good ideas all around. I'm curious about finding a suitable conversion for Varisian tattoo, I'll start another thread for that in the conversion forum.
There's always Compelling Caster for Sorcs from Ultimate Feats... it allows you to add your Charisma bonus to all caster level checks like dispelling and defeating SR.
We made a similar feat going on the basis that Wizards should have access to it as well called Intellectual Caster, which lets you add your Int bonus instead.