Just a quick clarification, the DMs are the one with "D&D ADHD". They are fine when playing, just lose interest when running.
I am absolutely guilty of this. I swear my players have running bets as to how soon I end a campaign I am starting. It sucks, and I know I'm bad for it.
Just a quick clarification, the DMs are the one with "D&D ADHD". They are fine when playing, just lose interest when running.I am absolutely guilty of this. I swear my players have running bets as to how soon I end a campaign I am starting. It sucks, and I know I'm bad for it.
We don't bother with money changing hands. It's that consistent in ours : (
Just a quick clarification, the DMs are the one with "D&D ADHD". They are fine when playing, just lose interest when running.I am absolutely guilty of this. I swear my players have running bets as to how soon I end a campaign I am starting. It sucks, and I know I'm bad for it.
I have the same problem. I blame having too many great campaigns just sitting around, waiting to be run. Taunting me from the bookshelf.
What's that you say...? You're 'chock full of Paizo goodness'?
Oh, you tease.
I don't run campaigns. I run stories that have a definite number of sessions - "This story is for five characters, and will be driven largely by your character interactions. I expect the arc to run for six sessions, here are eight dates on the calendar with our regular monthly meetup. Anyone who wants to join can, but you need to describe the characters you want to play. Here's the two page gazetteer on the world."
I find I need to pick eight dates for six sessions because there will always be a date that conflicts with school, job, anniversary, birthday party or "Hey, I needed to go to the local strip club and forget about my ex."
I don't run campaigns. I run stories that have a definite number of sessions - "This story is for five characters, and will be driven largely by your character interactions. I expect the arc to run for six sessions, here are eight dates on the calendar with our regular monthly meetup. Anyone who wants to join can, but you need to describe the characters you want to play. Here's the two page gazetteer on the world."
I'm really considering doing something like this with a new Ravenloft campaign I've started. I'm thinking about placing a specific endpoint to it, instead of just leaving it open to drag out. The thing with Ravenloft is that the setting doesn't really cater to high level characters too well; some of the most powerful Darklords are only around CR12-16, so a series ender, instead of the glass ceiling 20th level, might be a good way to finish it and play something new(before I get bored lol).
The issue that I find is the two main DMs have D&D ADHD. We usually don't make it much further than 3 game sessions before there is lost interest, a "great idea for a campaign", or a switch in game systems.
Ah, let's back this train up a bit and see what we can do about this issue. This isn't really directed towards you, specifically, it's just general campaign advice.
Usually, when you hear, 'I'm just not feeling this campaign,' it means the GM is trying to run something the players aren't interested in or the way they're playing it isn't conforming to the GM's specific idea of how it should play out.
Try to keep a loose idea of how you want the game to play out, try to tailor things to what players want and don't be afraid to switch tracks and try to put more energy into concepts that affect the players rather than high concepts they may never experience.
There are story conventions that may grate on players too. If the shadow of doom starts growing into an apocalypse-level event, players might chalk it up to something they can't do anything about. Players really get sick of fighting the same looming threat or NPC week after week too, mix it up a little. Also, ask yourself if something like the death of a god years ago has current gameworld ramifications that the player will experience, or is it just a 'cool idea.' This is another reason why Paizo won't be detailing the actual events of Aroden's death, but rather focuses on how that has changed the world.
Thats an interesting point, and one worth noting.
Sometimes the GM's idea of fun, and the players, can be on different tangents. That's not to say anyone is wrong, it just becomes a "Ford v GM" debate.
To throw a little insight on how I develop my games, my technique is tho throw a bunch of pitches to my players and have them pick out what they are in the mood for - they can sort out what they want between themselves and order off the menu.
Invaders!
It was only two Summers ago that the first invasion fleets landed on the beaches of your island kingdom and since their arrival, the occupiers have managed to break almost every settlement and city to their will – very few have had the temerity to fight back against the uncompromising brutality of ‘The Men of the Hawk’. Now their stone ziggurat temples adorn the lands, carved by the black incantations of their Earth Shapers and bathed in the blood of the living sacrifices they now demand as tribute.
All is not yet lost though, as the last remaining druidic branch of the Tree Of Life have started the ages old incantations calling upon the Spirit of the Dragon to wake from its slumber, and oust the Hawks from your sacred lands. You have headed the call to join the Loyalist army, and drive the Hawks back into the sea.
Approx lvl 8, main themes: Anglo Celtic/Fantasy (think Excalibur) - Druids/Ranger/Warrior/Rogue - High suspicion/fear of Wizards; Clerics mainly concerned with Natural phenomenon. Moderate wealth & Magic.
In the name of the King.
There was outrage in the capital when the Exchequer broke the news that revenues were well down, and this was clearly attributable to the lack of food taxes being paid. Of course this was in turn due to the fact that there is a kingdom wide food shortage, driven by the fact that (contrary to wiser counsel) the King had gotten rather carried away conscripting too many peasants to bolster his shiny Northern Army in order to better rattle his saber and gain more leverage in the seemingly endless diplomatic summits over the ‘Disputed Triangle’ – a rather useless piece of ground, unfit for much other than building mud huts on – but vitally important to be seen to be controlling.
The average citizen isn’t entirely sure WHY of course, but the Byzantine politics of inter-kingdom rivalries is well beyond the ken of such simple folk anyhow.
That's all good, but budget cuts MUST be found - "Belts are for tightening!" is the Kings new catch-cry.
Your Duke has been losing much sleep trying to control spending and restore order (and income) by hook and by crook (a little harmless larceny) but things are pretty tough with bands of Orcs and Ogres running amok in the outlying lands, the garrisons only being strong enough to lock the gates and scare off the half hearted war bands. Luckliy, the warbands seem happy enough to simply steal livestock and burn the occasional farmhouse so the damage has been light, but increasing in frequency. That said the villagers confidence is waning the stolen food isn’t helping the crisis.
Fortunately there are a few brave souls who have taken the opportunity to cash in on all this and have formed ‘Adventuring Parties’ to cash in on the rewards on offer to hunt down the Orcish warbands to mixed success, but this is costing the coffers a fortune – a long term (cheaper solution) MUST be found.
The Duke has charged you with the task of investigating the outlands and investigating the matter.
Approx lvl 5, main themes: ‘Standard’ D&D (think Willow/LOTR) – Classes open, players are good guys and should always been ‘seen’ as such. Require at least some ‘face skills’ in the party. Pretty lighthearted adventure.
The Black Aria.
Whilst the Clergy all agree that there should be room under the Heavens for all men, in this one case they felt they needed to make an exception.
Dark whispers and rumors had long abounded about the goings on and dark practices taking place in Lord Rothwells chateau, most being put down as being too fantastic and gruesome to be true. The Clergy eventually felt compelled to act, and engaged in the necessary acts of espionage to establish what was taking place. It is understood the spies never returned.
You marched at the vanguard of the Holy Hammer army sent to smash the keep; and in your bloody righteousness, Lord Rothwell’s forces were overcome and the chateau fell quickly. The battle didn’t come without some considerable cost, however, as many of your brothers were slain by dark minions or simply had their minds snapped with fear.
Whatever was found in the Chateau was so dark and hideous that it was immediately ordered to be razed, and all bodies killed in the battle burned.
Lord Rothwell’s body was not located, although it is believed he was dealt a mortal blow before being dragged off by his bodyguard.
You, as some of the most trusted and capable men at arms, have been entrusted with a secret mission to carry what appears to be an enruned sarcophagus back to the main temple. One of the best and most venerated Oracles is accompanying you on your task.
Approx lvl 10, main themes: Crusaders & Zealots! – Players must have AT LEAST half their levels in a martial class (ie War/Pal), no Druids/Monks. Normal Magic, though of course with a religious relic bent.
Forsaken.
The fires fell bloody from the heavens, the normal green shimmer of the northern lights replaced by a ruby hue. The Shamans all went mad, first crying blood before succumbing to the red rage and violently attacking man woman and child alike. Days later, some of those who had been subdued by the bravest warriors seem to have made some recovery, however they wander as broken men – senile as the eldest of the ancients. It would appear that their magicks have failed and the conduit to the Crying God has been severed.
The call was put out to you, as the strongest of your peoples to go forth and consult the Crone of the Tundra – far across the Great North Glacier, and into the land of the Giants.
Approx lvl 12, main themes: Nordic, brutal. ‘Viking’ background – Classes: Bar/War/Rog/Rng/Bard. Max half levels in Wiz/Bard. No Clr/Dru/Monk/Pal etc… (Overland trek involved)
I make a 'skeleton' plot outline for myself and work out what the general cut and thrust of the campaign is going to be (and an idea of how long) and then the players all get sent the above email, and then have an opportunity to ask any clarifying questions.
Once all that is done I can flesh out whatever the selection was.
Zen and the Art of Dungeon Mastering and Roleplaying Tips. (Also, GM Gems and PC Pearls.) How to craft a good campaign is pretty much exactly the same as crafting a good story. I have a diagram posted next to my computer that I keep for reference, here's the breakdown.
[list]
Regular stuff going on
Beginning of your campaign or adventure - here is where you introduce your PCs to each other, and it helps to have a unifying element of some sort beyond "they meet at the tavern." It could be they went to school together, were (or are) a part of a mercenary company, slaves, members of the thieving guild, etc.
Some sort of problem
This is your bait, and sometimes players don't take the bait. If it's a new campaign, trying to figure out your PCs motivations can take a bit of flexibility, but if your players have already made even a minor one paragraph backstory, TAKE IT AND RUN WITH IT.
Wonderful post...I'll keep this by my computer as well.
The issue that I find is the two main DMs have D&D ADHD. We usually don't make it much further than 3 game sessions before there is lost interest, a "great idea for a campaign", or a switch in game systems.Ah, let's back this train up a bit and see what we can do about this issue. This isn't really directed towards you, specifically, it's just general campaign advice.
Usually, when you hear, 'I'm just not feeling this campaign,' it means the GM is trying to run something the players aren't interested in or the way they're playing it isn't conforming to the GM's specific idea of how it should play out.
I can see how having the players not on board might be an issue but am unsure if 4 or 5 sessions is really adequate to make that kind of conclusion. I mean if you abandoning campaigns after five sessions I think its perfectly possible that your abandoning a campaign that all the players will actually immensely enjoy - something like five sessions is too soon to make any kind of real judgment call on whether or not this is right or wrong for your group unless the players are pretty much telling the DM in no uncertain terms that this won't work for them. This early in the game players are still just getting to know their characters and just beginning to come to terms with the what their going to do and how things are going to develop.
Sure its perfectly possible that by this point the players have come to realize that they really are uncomfortable with the basic premise being presented but that strikes me as generally an unusual event reserved for campaigns not in the 'heroic' vein and which make your players uncomfortable.
I'm not certain what the root cause of the DM ADHD is - it could be that being a game master is a lot of hard work and execution is a lot tougher then thinking up the cool idea. Of course its also possible that the opposite is true - a potential DM with a lot of spare time might work out the basic details for one Fantasy Campaign only to choose to explore some kind of cyberpunk story even while the players are just starting on the Fantasy Campaign.
In the end I'm not sure it really matters which is the case. In truth the potential DM needs to have enough time to prep for the current campaign and should work to remain focused on that. On the other hand if all reasonable prep for the current campaign is complete then lay off the prep work. Developing more then is needed just leads to wasted work. Developing 'next years' campaign leads to distraction - find something else to do with ones time.
Sure its perfectly possible that by this point the players have come to realize that they really are uncomfortable with the basic premise being presented but that strikes me as generally an unusual event reserved for campaigns not in the 'heroic' vein and which make your players uncomfortable.
Yeah that's part of the rationale behind my 'pitch' tactic mentioned above - if you might be going off on tangents, a good rider that allows the players to sniff this can give them the opportunity to either run with it, or shy away early.
I'm not certain what the root cause of the DM ADHD is - it could be that being a game master is a lot of hard work and execution is a lot tougher then thinking up the cool idea. Of course its also possible that the opposite is true - a potential DM with a lot of spare time might work out the basic details for one Fantasy...The issue that I find is the two main DMs have D&D ADHD. We usually don't make it much further than 3 game sessions before there is lost interest, a "great idea for a campaign", or a switch in game systems.Ah, let's back this train up a bit and see what we can do about this issue. This isn't really directed towards you, specifically, it's just general campaign advice.
Usually, when you hear, 'I'm just not feeling this campaign,' it means the GM is trying to run something the players aren't interested in or the way they're playing it isn't conforming to the GM's specific idea of how it should play out.
I usually see 3 reasons for the loss of a campaign: Campaign derailment, Loss of interest, and Squirrel.
Campaign Derailment can come at any time. Sometimes this is in the form of GM/PCs gone "wild", but can also come from GM/PC frustration (can't figure out what to do next).
Loss of interest is pretty self explanitory where either the PCs or GM just don't want to play the campaign any more.
The third, Squirrel, is what I usually refer to as the "ADHD". The "uncertain" of the three where a new campaign is started with no reason. Though my experience has been more toward the GM side, it can also come from a PC saying "Hey, I'd like to do this..."
So after my guys have had a bit of time to toss around what 'campaign' they wanted from my list, I can now go about putting all the meat on the skeleton I designed, and start to firm up the way the plot connects (in this case resembling a bowl of spaghetti) and have a general thrust on the likely directions the players will take.
The key point is to have enough meat at the early stages so that they can get their teeth (and daggers) right into the story, but not over detail the back end too much, as the players actions will start having impacts and chains of consequence that need to be built in. So no setting the end in stone until the time comes for it :0
In this case the story is 'sandbox', but there is an overarching storyline they will drift across at various points. At the end of the day a red herring is a black fish :)
By offering a selection to the players up front, and having them obtain a bit of a grasp of what 'sort' of adventure they might be up for, it allows them to put some thought into their backstory and how they all relate - in this case it becomes a little simpler in the end as they are all working for the same guy - they just have to work on how they got to that point.
As they have also taken the time to debate what campaign they are interested in from a list, one would expect they take a bit more ownership of it, and also, that a fair bit of interest was generated 'before the game', as opposed to the the laissez faire attitude of "oh another campaign huh? I better start rollin'..."
Tasters were at here.
Theme chosen:
In the name of the King.
There was outrage in the capital when the Exchequer broke the news that revenues were well down, and this was clearly attributable to the lack of food taxes being paid. Of course this was in turn due to the fact that there is a kingdom wide food shortage, driven by the fact that (contrary to wiser counsel) the King had gotten rather carried away conscripting too many peasants to bolster his shiny Northern Army in order to better rattle his saber and gain more leverage in the seemingly endless diplomatic summits over the ‘Disputed Triangle’ – a rather useless piece of ground, unfit for much other than building mud huts on – but vitally important to be seen to be controlling.
The average citizen isn’t entirely sure WHY of course, but the Byzantine politics of inter-kingdom rivalries is well beyond the ken of such simple folk anyhow.
That's all good, but budget cuts MUST be found - "Belts are for tightening!" is the Kings new catch-cry.
Your Duke has been losing much sleep trying to control spending and restore order (and income) by hook and by crook (a little harmless larceny) but things are pretty tough with bands of Orcs and Ogres running amok in the outlying lands, the garrisons only being strong enough to lock the gates and scare off the half hearted war bands. Luckliy, the warbands seem happy enough to simply steal livestock and burn the occasional farmhouse so the damage has been light, but increasing in frequency. That said the villagers confidence is waning the stolen food isn’t helping the crisis.
Fortunately there are a few brave souls who have taken the opportunity to cash in on all this and have formed ‘Adventuring Parties’ to cash in on the rewards on offer to hunt down the Orcish warbands to mixed success, but this is costing the coffers a fortune – a long term (cheaper solution) MUST be found.
The Duke has charged you with the task of investigating the outlands and investigating the matter.
Approx lvl 5, main themes: ‘Standard’ D&D (think Willow/LOTR) – Classes open, players are good guys and should always been ‘seen’ as such. Require at least some ‘face skills’ in the party. Pretty lighthearted adventure.
If you want a synopsis of what is set to happen just lemme know :)
If you want a synopsis of what is set to happen just lemme know :)You should probably start a new Thread HERE and then place a link in this one to it.
R.
Well I would probably email it to the OP - as my players frequesnt these forums and I wouldn't want to give the game away :p
I'm more trying to provide the OP an insight as to how I do it and how it plays out as it also happens to be something I'm doing at the moment...
On a side note, I don't really get why all those guys print up all that info for their campaigns... is it an idea swap meet or something?
Ah ... didn't realize "you" from the original was singular ... I thought it was to the thread-readers in general.
Ahh well anyone who was specifically interested really (other than the payers involved - who can find out the hard way!)
Gamers like to trade stories. I think it's really just a cyber campfire.
No worries, I just see a lot of guys posting, with not a lot of replying... so was wondering if it was sorta like posting into space :)