|
Sexuality is very open in my group's games. We are all adults (ranging between 30-45) and handle mature themes as such. Sex is a part of the world. As it nudity, abuse, violence, rape, drug use, and other "unpleasant truths." These things happen, and should not be tip-toed around. To do so would be as bad as ignoring them, which is what Conservatives would have many do.
My group has a mix of men and women, both of whom have played characters of both gender. It is not a big deal. Sexual promiscuity happens with both ends of the spectrum. The only thing keeping sex in a "bad place" is society's moral standards.
Now, I know every group is different, and should be handled with care. One should find out where the limits are with every person and not barge head-on into whatever style of gaming they want without considering those around them. But I've been with my group for well over 13 years and have a good handle on what is and is not acceptable with them all.
In my own campaign world, sexuality is open. The only taboo is rape (mind-control is considered such). Bisexuality is the norm. Genders are equal. Ethically, sex is an "indoor-only" activity; people aren't just going at it in the streets, but they are not afraid to talk about it in public.
Do not mistake me; my groups are not XXX fanatics in gaming. We don't go into every detail. It's usually nothing more than "I'll have sex with him/her/them" after the characters adjurn into their respective bedrooms. But we don't shy away from the subject.
None of the folks in my groups are drug-users. As such, it is not something that actually comes up that often. I can count on both hands that amount of times drug use has occured in the many games I have played. And it is usually nothing more than "I go smoke some weed." We have found that drug-addicted characters do not make for long-term adventurers.
Rape is something that has happened maybe twice in all the games I have played. Granted, descriptions have happened many more times of "orcs that raided the villages and defiled the women," but actual accounts of rape that a character has seen or interacted has been extremely limited.
I've never really encountered any books on adult-themed RPGs that I have really liked. The Book of Erotic Fantasy was well-written, but the fetishes of the writers became way too prevalent in the book, which did not make it as open/generic for sexual-gaming as one would expect. Most other books are written a little immaturish. There was the "Nymphology: Blue magic" book that was full of really childish sexual humor (there was a One-Eyed Monster in the bestiary section!). Some of the ideas were useable, but only a few.
Some of the folks in my own game group have wirtten sexually-based rules for HERO and Big Eyes Small Mouth, but nothing of great import. I really would like to see some good adult-themed books written for Pathfinder or the 3rd Edition in general. However, given how afraid of sex society is, I doubt I will see this any time soon.
My friend, Owen KC Stephens once told me that when a publishing group creates a game product that delves into sexual material (even just heavily-prevalent scantily-clad female art) that the company is soon boycotted by the more conservative gamers. I find this a sad part of our times. This is the 21st century. Aren't we supposed to be beyond this kind of behavior?
To do so would be as bad as ignoring them, which is what Conservatives would have many do.
Careful of your overly broad and factually incorrect invocation of politics where it doesn't belong.
-A conservative who is quite in support of honesty, including on matters of sex, abuse, violence, rape, drug use, and "unpleasant truths"
There was the "Nymphology: Blue magic" book that was full of really childish sexual humor (there was a One-Eyed Monster in the bestiary section!).
Don't forget Colossal Gay Al. A giant sentient dinosaur who, "travels the world talking in a high pitched voice, rolling his eyes, drinking enormous cocktails, singing show tunes, flapping ineffectually with his tiny limp dinosaur hands and devouring communities whole when he is hungry, complaining afterwards that it will go straight to his hips," and has "Be really camp," as a supernatural ability.
Yeah, there's a reason I don't use that book.
I was not talking about political conservatives. I was talking about religious conservatives.
Living in the "buckle of the Bible Belt," I can say that sex is a taboo subject with religious types.
Speaking as a practicing Catholic that doesn't shy away from adult themes in my games, you may just want to quit while you are ahead. I don't take any offense, but still, the generalities aren't doing much for the discussions.
|
When sex and violence are done right, they are done rarely, and they balance against thier implications and purposes. Humanity laughs because of incongruency, and sex/violence in stories/rpg is perfect for maximum intensity so long as the orchestra isn't "blowing" double-forte all night long.
Adult themes become more artistic and tactfully done when they are purposeful and tastefully done. Otherwise, adult themes become gratuitous and appear as shallow crowd-pleasers that leave a "bad-taste" in the audience's mouth instead.
Inuendo is fun regularly, but serious adult themes should contain a story purpose, or a story outcome to be worth including. Otherwise, a tactful GM will just say, "... and we know the rest," and move on.
Even if the players want it more intense, don't give it to them. Like sex, stories good should have an ascending series of build-ups prior to the "climax."
The garbage books that describe unseen bedroom servant spells or magic dildos +5, are unnecessary. They're true garbage.
On one final personal note, I'm not sure there is any descriptive or story value in the depiction of the more horrible sexual acts of violance on women nor men. In fact, if a campaign has degenerated this far, its probably incapable of ever recovering, and the end is near. That is, like an orchestra's loudest blast, once the GM has chosen to "blow his wad" he will never recover the story. Good gaming, like good drama, is something that is more akin to the tea kettle that wants to boil and whistle, but never does. Suspense comes from this, and there is sometimes more intensity in a whisper or what is not said than things that are explicit.
My 2 token cp on that subject...
This is exactly how I feel about the subject. Every time certain themes have been added to my games they have always served a story purpose.
|
|
There was the "Nymphology: Blue magic" book that was full of really childish sexual humor (there was a One-Eyed Monster in the bestiary section!).
Don't forget Colossal Gay Al. A giant sentient dinosaur who, "travels the world talking in a high pitched voice, rolling his eyes, drinking enormous cocktails, singing show tunes, flapping ineffectually with his tiny limp dinosaur hands and devouring communities whole when he is hungry, complaining afterwards that it will go straight to his hips," and has "Be really camp," as a supernatural ability.
Yeah, there's a reason I don't use that book.
Excuse me? I am really happy I never picked up that book. I...don't know what to say. I can laugh at myself. I very often do. But that seems absurd.
|
|
My group is perfectly happy with the G/PG rated game. My blog has been called Disney-esque and I don't mind at all. It is a very "The Hobbit" meets Fafhrd & the Gray Mouser meets Zothique as if Lord Dunsany was editing the latter two to keep them in a Disney vein.
We grew out of all the adult themes in our early twenties. Now we enjoy getting back to the innocent (except for the slaying of any monster within eyesight) path.
Plus, it is nice to feel comfortable around one player's two pre-teen children, they can approach the table and watch the game at any time (and they often do) without us losing our flow. However, we retain this style of play even without children present.
As a reader of your blog, I have never thought of your material as Disney-esque. Well, at least how some might use the term. It is simply good old D&D fun. If it is Disney-like, it is in its view of the world. Good and evil are clearly delineated. I enjoy that. And, quite frankly, it is something I enjoy about Disney.
There is nothing wrong with innocence. Well, as innocent as a game like D&D can be. My games are always very clear about good and evil, wrong and right, and up and down. Morality is simple and easy to understand because that is how I wish our world operated. Our current campaign is very much a dungeon exploration game with very little in the way of adult themes. They are simply unnecessary.
|
|
I do think it is important to designate a difference between adult themes and extreme adult themes. The first simply recognizes there might be occasional sex, strong violence, or other themes more appropriate for adults. But such a game doesn't go out of its way to put characters into those situations or even discuss them for very long during the game session. The second deals more with extreme attributes such as rape, obscene violence, other themes of a disturbing nature. The purpose is to shock and it often has some level of detail to insure the shock value is recognized.
Honestly, both of these subjects can be used in a puerile fashion. Going to pay for a prostitute can be just as puerile as rape fantasies. Extreme adult themes can be anything but adult if used by the wrong people. I have used certain themes for shock value and story purposes. But never to revel in it. Though I am know for a fact I have crossed the line at times and I severely regret that fact. It was part of the learning the process and understanding how such themes should be implemented. Themes from both categories can be used with a clear cut, simple view of the world. In fact, I sometimes find it is easier to do so as it means certain actions are clearly evil and off limits for the players.
Which is a good point I forgot to bring up in my last post. I ban evil characters at my table. I will not have my players participating in depravity as I find that difficult for me to deal with. And I make it clear that any kind of evil act I describe is repulsive and disgusting to me. I create the darkness to emphasize the light the characters represent. But then, as others have said, I only use some more adult themes when playing with people I know well and understand. And then I use it sparingly, to make a point. Not every evil creature is a blood soaked, depraved servant of darkness, for instance.
As I said, I like a clear idea of good and evil. And I especially like when the players clearly banish such evil from the world. I always emphasize good over evil. No exceptions.
|
It seems like every time I look at this thread it's people espousing how much trouble they have with the thought of all this 'adult' stuff, especially the 'extreme adult' material.
*snip*
To me, one of the things that makes a campaign great is the converging storylines and goals.
Kyrt, thank you for saying almost verbatim what I was thinking.
The great thing about gaming, to me, is the variety that it presents. I can go from Bunnies and Burrows to Book of Erotic Fantasy and have just as much fun with either. Some of my very favorite games were Bunnies and Burrows, and others were very dark, gritty and even a bit harsh.
That said, I am not other people. I am me. Not everyone likes Bunnies and Burrows. And not everyone likes BoEF. Some people are happy fluctuating between those poles, some are happy in the middle and some play at one over the other by preference. Each has a valid and genuine preference. My hat's off to those who know what they want, and I'll fight to defend that with my last breath.
In short, there is no WRONGBADFUN as long as those involved are having FUN. When the fun stops, a reevaluation is needed to make it start again. Elements can and should be tweaked for the good of all. If the good of ALL can't be reached, the good of MOST should be the goal.
I think I'm in for 1pp at this point, so another 2cp shouldn't hurt. *grins*
|
|
Very well said Mikhaila, just let me add two more styles to the list.Heroes of Horror + Book of Vile Darkness (can be tons of fun if your in the right mood)
and
Opportunistic Mercenaries of Fortune.
Hee! I think I like those combinations a lot. I think I might have to dredge up my copies of HoH and BoVD. Don't have OMoF. (Assuming that's the title?)
As a female gamer that pretty much only plays female characters, I find that I have to create quite asexual characters 99% of the time to keep the game from becoming uncomfortable for me. If I create a normal female character with normal attitudes toward sex, she's pretty much immediately assumed to be a slut and it's open season on her. That's just not fun to play for more 2 minutes every couple of sessions. Heck, I've played characters that are cold and uninterested and still have problems.
I have to know a group really well before I allow my character to let down her hair, and even then it's caused problems, because my character that actually had a relationship with an NPC must now be willing to whore herself out to any male humanoid the party comes across in order to gain favors for the party.
::sigh::
It ends up feeling like every time I try to create a character that's not an ice princess, I get punished for it. So I pretty much stopped trying.
Yeah. ;)
As a general rule, in games with my group, sexuality is something that is implied, or else dealt with through a kind of British-sitcom double-entendre style.
The general tack we take is an assumption that the handsome, rogueish members of the party "do 'it' on their own time".
That said, we once had a Bard character play in a game who took the Perform skill, with specialiasation "In Bed", which had us in stitches for some time. He essentially was a songwriting, womanising con-man, and the player enacted his outrageous and flirtatious antics with style and aplomb.
That said, it comes down to group mechanics entirely. I have a feeling that all-male gaming groups probably lean a bit more towards some bedroom based humour than those gaming groups with females present... That's been my experience, anyway.
|
|
Heh, that's another gaming style, awesome to get another added to the list.
What I personally was thinking of though, was using Heroes of Horror and the Book of Vile Darkness for PC's.
Where you have, for example, a PC that sacrifices babies in dark rituals to it's diety before eating their brains.
I understand now.
You know, despite the fact I don't allow that at my table, I would like to see something like that done well.
Geoffrey McKinney wrote something similar for the Old School Renaissance known as Carcosa . Not Pathfinder, but is along the lines of what you are thinking. Created an interesting rift in the OSR as people debated the value of the product. Personally, I found it interesting.
As a female gamer that pretty much only plays female characters, I find that I have to create quite asexual characters 99% of the time to keep the game from becoming uncomfortable for me. If I create a normal female character with normal attitudes toward sex, she's pretty much immediately assumed to be a slut and it's open season on her. That's just not fun to play for more 2 minutes every couple of sessions. Heck, I've played characters that are cold and uninterested and still have problems.
I have to know a group really well before I allow my character to let down her hair, and even then it's caused problems, because my character that actually had a relationship with an NPC must now be willing to whore herself out to any male humanoid the party comes across in order to gain favors for the party.
::sigh::
It ends up feeling like every time I try to create a character that's not an ice princess, I get punished for it. So I pretty much stopped trying.
I've fiddled with this quite a bit myself. I find that this problem happens a lot less often if your character can snap everyone else's character's neck. It can help if she's a lesbian (or make matters much worse). Or if she has a resplendent beard.
*Loves her dwarven matrons.*
I'm also fond of running the crazy old witch. Particularly ones with an oddly intelligent pig familiar named "Hubby." >:D
For everything else, there's the wedding band. Guys tend to be a lot less pushy around characters who're already married. One of my favorites was a halfling of mine whose husband was her air mephit familiar. :P
Then, there's multiing up. One character I've been meaning to run is an empty-nester whose wife's past away, all her kids have grown up, and now she's out looking for adventure. Factotum, methinks... though maybe some sort of ninja. :P
Depends on the group, for me: I've had games in which everyone had known each other for 20 years+, and absolutely nothing was off-limits -- some of the excesses there still make me giggle. Conversely, in most college games with dudes, I was very happy to keep everything rated G. I've more recently played in games in which the players, although relatively new to each other, didn't mind a bit of goofy sterotyping: one female player vocally described her rogue character an ex-prostitute, for example, and it was accepted in the spirit it was given (all in fun).
Currently, I'm DMing one of the games that Jess Door plays in. I've got two of the players from the third group I described above, a new player who's pretty laid back about everything (but cracks devastatingly funny double-entendre jokes), and Jess, whose previous negative experiences show like a spotlight -- almost completely genderless characters, and zero tolerance for pushing the envelope -- it kind of makes me want to beat up the people who forced that attitude on her. I like having Jess in the game, more than enough to keep "on table" things PG-13 (with hints that, off-screen, the game world itself is NC-17). Jess has yet to walk out, so hopefully I'm keeping it within the tolerance range.