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Hi Pathfinder! First a little background. My group and I have switched to pathfinder from 3.5 and are loving it. I am currently DMing the Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign. After I'm done another DM will take his turn and run a different adventure path, and I want to plan a character for it.
I'm usually the party wizard, but intrigued by the new archery options I thought I would have a crack at being an archer. Seeing the new Arcane Archer changes it seemed like a perfect fit, so I made a plan up to level 15 for him, named him Llareth.
Llareth (25 Point buy)
Male Elven Wizard 1 Fighter 6 Arcane Archer 8
Alignment: N
Str: 20 (+5) [5 points, +6 enhance.]
Dex: 21 (+5) [10 points, +2 race, +5 levels, +4 enhance.]
Con: 12 (+1) [5 points, -2 race]
Int: 20 (+5) [5 points, +2 Race, +4 Enhance ]
Wis: 10 (+0) [0 points,]
Cha: 10 (+0) [0 points]
Class and Racial abilities:
Elven Racial traits
Divination School
Forewarned
Arcane Bond (Composite Longbow)
Bravery +2
Armor Training 2
Weapon Training (bows +1)
Enhance Arrows (Magic, Elemental, Distance, Elemental Burst)
Imbue Arrow
Seeker Arrow
Phase Arrow
Hail of Arrows
7th Level Arcane Casting (9th for Caster Level)
Hit Dice: 14d10+1d6 +15
Hit Points: 95
AC: 31 (+9 Armor, +5 Dexterity, +1 haste, +3 Ring of Protection, +3 Amulet of Natural Armour) [Touch 22, Flat-footed 26]
Init: +13 (+5 Dex, +1 Competence, +2 trait, +4 feat, +1 Diviner)
Speed: 60ft
Saves:
Fortitude +14 [+9 base, +5 Resist.]
Reflex +16 [+6 base, +5 Dex, +5 Resist, +1 Haste.]
Will +12 [+7 base,+5 Resist.] +2 vs fear
BAB: +14
Ranged Atk: +22/+22/+22/+17/+12/+7 (1d8+2d6+26 19/20x3)
(Attack Breakdown: 14 BAB, +5 Dex, +1 Weapon Focus, +5 Enhancement, +2 Competence, +1 haste, -2 Rapid Fire, -4 Deadly Aim)
(Damage Breakdown: 4.5 average of 1d8, +1d6 Elemental Burst +1d6 Flame arrow +5 Strength, +5 Enhancement, +2 Weapon Specialization, +5 Arcane Strike, +8 Deadly Aim, +1 Competence, First attack deals double damage.)
CMB: +19
CMD: +34
Skills:
Stealth + 23 (15 Ranks, + 5 Dex, +3 class skill)
Acrobatics +20 (15 ranks, +5 Dex,)
Perception +20 (15 ranks, +2 Elf, +3 class skill)
Knowledge Arcana (15 ranks,+5 Int, +3 class skill)
Spellcraft +23 (15 ranks, +5 Int, +3 class skill) +2 elf for identifying magic items
Traits: Reactionary, Magical Knack
Feats:
1- Wizard: Precise Shot
Scribe Scroll (Wizard bonus)
2- Fighter: Point Blank Shot (Fighter bonus)
3- Fighter: Weapon Focus: Longbow, Rapid Shot (Fighter bonus)
4- Fighter:
5- Fighter: Deadly Aim, Weapon Specialisation (Fighter bonus)
6- Fighter:
7- Fighter: Arcane Strike, Manyshot (Fighter bonus)
8- Arcane Archer:
9- Arcane Archer: Arcane Armour Training
10- Arcane Archer:
11- Arcane Archer: Improved Initiative
12- Arcane Archer:
13- Arcane Archer: Improved Precise Shot
14- Arcane Archer:
15- Arcane Archer: Improved Critical: Longbow
Spells
0-Detect Magic, Prestigitation, Read Magic, Message
1-Mage Armour, Feather Fallx2, Expeditious Retreat, Unseen Servant, True Strike, Grease
2-Invisibility, Mirror Imagex2, Spider Climb, Resist Energy, See Invis
3-Fly, Tongues, Flame Arrowx2, Haste
4-Dimension Doorx2, Arcane Eye, Greater Invisibility
Equipment:
+5 mithral Chain Shirt
+5 composite longbow (mighty +7)
Amulet of Natural Armour +3
Ring of Protection +3
belt of physical might +4 (strength and dexterity)
Headbant of Vast Intellect +6
boots of speed
greater bracers of archery
cloak of resistance +5
Pale blue Rhomboid ioun stone
Handy Haversack
40 arrows
20 Adamantine Arrrows
Money:
240,000g WBL
-
26,100
26,100
18,000
18,000
40,000
36000
12,000
25,000
25,000
8,000
2000
1200
_______
237,400
(Credit to Zurai for the character template)
So, this was my first attempt. Llareth has casting abilities to provide some tactical options, and can cast spells in his armour without spell failure if he sacrifices his swift action for that round (losing Arcane Strike). He can act in surprise rounds thanks to forewarned, and is pretty well guaranteed to act first too. His progression I feel may be awkward the first few levels, but he should be competent at level 3, and hitting his stride with his feats at levels 5 and 7. He is also pretty skilled. Weaknesses to me seem to be a perhaps lackluster attack rating when factoring in Deadly Aim, and a low hp value.
However, coming here and seeing Zurai's Archerman, I thought I would take the model and tinker with it, and compare the result to Llareth. To me its a photo finish, here's Kharne. (Full credit to Zurai, for his initial build)
Kharne (25 Point buy)
Male Human Fighter 15
Alignment: N
Str: 20 (+5) [5 points, +6 enhance.]
Dex: 21 (+5) [10 points, +2 race, +5 levels, +4 enhance.]
Con: 14 (+2) [5 points,]
Int: 10 (+0) [0 points]
Wis: 14 (+2) [5 points,]
Cha: 10 (0) [0 points]
Class and Racial abilities:
Bravery +4
Armor Training 4
Weapon Training (bows +3, light blades +2, heavy blades +1,)
Hit Dice: 15d10+45
Hit Points: 127
AC: 30 (+14 Armor, +5 Dexterity, +1 haste) [Touch 16, Flat-footed 25]
Init: +8 (+5 Dex, +1 Competence, +2 Trait)
Speed: 60ft
Saves:
Fortitude +16 [+9 base, +2 Con, +5 Resist.]
Reflex +16 [+5 base, +5 Dex, +5 Resist, +1 Haste.]
Will +14 [+5 base, +2 Wis, +2 Feat, +5 Resist.], +4 vs fear, 1/day re-roll failed save
BAB: +15
Ranged Atk: +26/+26/+26/+21/+16/+11 (1d8+26 19/20x3)
(Attack Breakdown: 15 BAB, +5 Dex, +2 Greater Weapon Focus, +3 Weapon Training, +5 Enhancement, +2 Competence, +1 haste, -2 Rapid Fire, -4 Deadly Aim)
(Damage Breakdown: 4.5 average of 1d8, +5 Strength, +5 Enhancement, +4 Greater Weapon Specialization, +3 Weapon Training, +8 Deadly Aim, +1 Competence, First attack deals double damage.)
CMB: +20
CMD: +35 (Cannot be Grappled.)
Skills:
Stealth + 20 (15 Ranks, + 5 Dex)
Acrobatics +20 (15 ranks, +5 Dex,)
Perception +17 (15 ranks, +2 Wis)
Traits: Reactionary, Rich Parents
Feats:
1- Point Blank Shot (Fighter bonus)
Rapid Shot
Precise Shot (Human bonus)
2- Deadly Aim (Fighter bonus)
3- Weapon Focus: Longbow
4- Weapon Specialization: Longbow (Fighter bonus)
5- Iron Will
6- Manyshot (Fighter bonus)
7- Improved Iron Will
8- Far Shot (Fighter bonus)
9- Critical Focus
10- Greater Weapon Focus: Longbow (Fighter bonus)
11- Improved Precise Shot
12- Improved Critical (Fighter bonus)
13- Staggering Critical: Longbow
14- Greater Weapon Specialization: Longbow (Fighter bonus)
15- Blinding Critical
Equipment:
+5 mithral full plate
+5 composite longbow (mighty +7)
ring of freedom of movement
belt of physical might +4 (strength and dexterity)
boots of speed
greater bracers of archery
cloak of resistance +5
Pale blue Rhomboid ioun stone
Handy Haversack
40 arrows
20 Adamantine Arrrows
Money:
240000g WBL
-
35,500
51,100
40,000
40,000
12,000
25,000
25,000
8,000
2000
1200
_______
235800
Kharne has the advantage of being pure class, which is nice and consistant from a roleplay perspective. He has better saves, attack bonuses, consistant damage, and due to being both human and a fighter, gets all the goodies at level 1, which, combined with the trait Rich Parents, makes for a flying start. He is super dangerous by level 6, while only getting better from there with critical feats. I'm liking the linear progression. As an archer, Kharne is superb, but Llareth has the versatility to keep things interesting.
What's your opinion on each, any advice you have, or mistakes you notice?
Thanks for your time, and thanks to the Pathfinder team for swooping in so gallantly on 3.5's behalf.
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I think I'm liking Kharne better.
It does look like you changed something mid-stream, 'though, as he's listed as having a +6 enhance to Strength, but should only have a +4 (from the physical might item), and the Dexterity modifiers are a mess. Not counting the level bonuses (which should be +3, not +5), his Dex should be 22.
Putting two of those level bonuses into Strength puts Strength where you have it listed, and still leaves him with a nice 23 Dex, ready to hit 24 with his level 16 ability-up.
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Nice catch on the level up bonuses, I had no idea. The six strength is coming from 4 for the belt and the 2 for the ioun stone, I was pretty confident they would stack. Is there any way to edit my initial post?
No editing after an hour, unfortunately.
The Belt and Ioun Stone are both enhancement bonuses, so no joy there. So you can save some cash on that, at least.
I totally missed which sort of Ioun stone that was. I see them listed all the time in character statblocks as 'Fuschia Dodecahedron Ioun Stone' or 'Periwinkle Lozenge' or 'Scintillating Taupe Cabochon' or whatever and I'm like 'WTF does that one do again? Is it worth looking up?' Generally, as in this case, I err on the side of laziness and don't bother. :)
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Right, so no love on the ioun stone front, good to know :). Heres the updated versions with dexterity that adds up, strength sans ioun stones, and correct feat placement.
Llareth
Male Elven Wizard 1 Fighter 6 Arcane Archer 8
Alignment: N
Str: 20 (+5) [5 points, +2 levels, +4 enhance.]
Dex: 23 (+6) [10 points, +2 race, +1 levels, +4 enhance.]
Con: 12 (+1) [5 points, -2 race]
Int: 20 (+5) [5 points, +2 Race, +4 Enhance ]
Wis: 10 (+0) [0 points,]
Cha: 10 (+0) [0 points]
Class and Racial abilities:
Elven Racial traits
Divination School
Forewarned
Arcane Bond (Composite Longbow)
Bravery +2
Armor Training 2
Weapon Training (bows +1)
Enhance Arrows (Magic, Elemental, Distance, Elemental Burst)
Imbue Arrow
Seeker Arrow
Phase Arrow
Hail of Arrows
7th Level Arcane Casting (9th for Caster Level)
Hit Dice: 14d10+1d6 +15
Hit Points: 95
AC: 32 (+9 Armor, +6 Dexterity, +1 haste, +3 Ring of Protection, +3 Amulet of Natural Armour) [Touch 24, Flat-footed 26]
Init: +14 (+6 Dex, +1 Competence, +2 trait, +4 feat, +1 Diviner)
Speed: 60ft
Saves:
Fortitude +14 [+9 base, +5 Resist.]
Reflex +18 [+6 base, +6 Dex, +5 Resist, +1 Haste.]
Will +12 [+7 base,+5 Resist.] +2 vs fear
BAB: +14
Ranged Atk: +23/+23/+23/+18/+13/+8 (1d8+2d6+26 19/20x3)
(Attack Breakdown: 14 BAB, +6 Dex, +1 Weapon Focus, +5 Enhancement, +2 Competence, +1 haste, -2 Rapid Fire, -4 Deadly Aim)
(Damage Breakdown: 4.5 average of 1d8, +1d6 Elemental Burst +1d6 Flame arrow +5 Strength, +5 Enhancement, +2 Weapon Specialization, +5 Arcane Strike, +8 Deadly Aim, +1 Competence, First attack deals double damage.)
CMB: +19
CMD: +34
Skills:
Stealth + 24 (15 Ranks, + 6 Dex, +3 class skill)
Acrobatics +21 (15 ranks, +6 Dex,)
Perception +20 (15 ranks, +2 Elf, +3 class skill)
Knowledge Arcana (15 ranks,+5 Int, +3 class skill)
Spellcraft +23 (15 ranks, +5 Int, +3 class skill) +2 elf for identifying magic items
Traits: Reactionary, Magical Knack
Feats:
1- Wizard: Point Blank Shot
Scribe Scroll (Wizard bonus)
2- Fighter Precise Shot (Fighter bonus)
3- Fighter Weapon Focus: Longbow, Rapid Shot (Fighter bonus)
4- Fighter
5- Fighter Deadly Aim, Weapon Specialisation (Fighter bonus)
6- Fighter
7- Fighter Arcane Strike, Manyshot (Fighter bonus)
8- Arcane Archer
9- Arcane Archer Arcane Armour Training
10- Arcane Archer
11- Arcane Archer Improved Initiative
12- Arcane Archer
13- Arcane Archer Improved Precise Shot
14- Arcane Archer
15- Arcane Archer Improved Critical: Longbow
Spells
0-Detect Magic, Prestigitation, Read Magic, Message
1-Mage Armour, Feather Fallx2, Expeditious Retreat, Unseen Servant, True Strike, Grease
2-Invisibility, Mirror Imagex2, Spider Climb, Resist Energy, See Invis
3-Fly, Tongues, Flame Arrowx2, Haste
4-Dimension Doorx2, Arcane Eye, Greater Invisibility
Equipment:
+5 mithral Chain Shirt
+5 composite longbow (mighty +7)
Amulet of Natural Armour +3
Ring of Protection +3
belt of physical might +4 (strength and dexterity)
Headbant of Vast Intellect +6
boots of speed
greater bracers of archery
cloak of resistance +5
Handy Haversack
40 arrows
20 Adamantine Arrrows
Money:
240,000g WBL
-
26,100
26,100
18,000
18,000
40,000
36000
12,000
25,000
25,000
2000
1200
_______
229,400
Kharne
Male Human Fighter 15
Alignment: N
Str: 20 (+5) [5 points, +2 race +4 enhance.]
Dex: 23 (+6) [10 points, +3 levels, +4 enhance.]
Con: 14 (+2) [5 points,]
Int: 10 (+0) [0 points]
Wis: 14 (+2) [5 points,]
Cha: 10 (0) [0 points]
Class and Racial abilities:
Bravery +4
Armor Training 4
Weapon Training (bows +3, light blades +2, heavy blades +1,)
Hit Dice: 15d10+45
Hit Points: 127
AC: 31 (+14 Armor, +6 Dexterity, +1 haste) [Touch 18, Flat-footed 25]
Init: +7 (+6 Dex, +1 Competence)
Speed: 60ft
Saves:
Fortitude +16 [+9 base, +2 Con, +5 Resist.]
Reflex +17 [+5 base, +6 Dex, +5 Resist, +1 Haste.]
Will +14 [+5 base, +2 Wis, +2 Feat, +5 Resist.], +4 vs fear, 1/day re-roll failed save
BAB: +15
Ranged Atk: +27/+27/+27/+22/+17/+12 (1d8+26 19/20x3)
(Attack Breakdown: 15 BAB, +6 Dex, +2 Greater Weapon Focus, +3 Weapon Training, +5 Enhancement, +2 Competence, +1 haste, -2 Rapid Fire, -4 Deadly Aim)
(Damage Breakdown: 4.5 average of 1d8, +5 Strength, +5 Enhancement, +4 Greater Weapon Specialization, +3 Weapon Training, +8 Deadly Aim, +1 Competence, First attack deals double damage.)
CMB: +20
CMD: +35 (cannot be grappled.)
Skills:
Stealth + 22 (15 Ranks, + 7 Dex)
Acrobatics +22 (15 ranks, +7 Dex,)
Perception +17 (15 ranks, +2 Wis)
Traits: Reactionary, Rich Parents
Feats:
1- Point Blank Shot (Fighter bonus)
Rapid Shot
Precise Shot (Human bonus)
2- Deadly Aim (Fighter bonus)
3- Weapon Focus: Longbow
4- Weapon Specialization: Longbow (Fighter bonus)
5- Iron Will
6- Manyshot (Fighter bonus)
7- Improved Iron Will
8- Far Shot (Fighter bonus)
9- Critical Focus
10- Greater Weapon Focus: Longbow (Fighter bonus)
11- Improved Precise Shot
12- Improved Critical (Fighter bonus)
13- Staggering Critical: Longbow
14- Greater Weapon Specialization: Longbow (Fighter bonus)
15- Blinding Critical
Equipment:
+5 mithral full plate
+5 composite longbow (mighty +7)
ring of freedom of movement
belt of physical might +4 (strength and dexterity)
boots of speed
greater bracers of archery
cloak of resistance +5
Handy Haversack
40 arrows
20 Adamantine Arrrows
Money:
240000g WBL
-
35,500
51,100
40,000
40,000
12,000
25,000
25,000
2000
1200
_______
227800
Right, so no love on the ioun stone front, good to know :). Heres the updated versions with dexterity that adds up, and strength sans ioun stones.
** spoiler omitted **...
Small thing with the Elf-dude.. Point blank shot is pre req for precise shot, so they need to be switched around...
-Gworeth
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Small thing with the Elf-dude.. Point blank shot is pre req for precise shot, so they need to be switched around...-Gworeth
Good call, I'll edit the spoilered spread above appropriately
Either two of the level ups or the racial +2 for the Human. A 20 Str will also be handy for those times when the archer has to get out a melee weapon and bust some heads.
Also done.
Right, so no love on the ioun stone front, good to know :). Heres the updated versions with dexterity that adds up, and strength sans ioun stones, and correct feat placement.
** spoiler omitted **...
I would go with Kharne too.
Initially because elves are sissies and humans appeal more to me.Aside from that I favor Kharne's durability and higher precision.
A single classed fighter is only as boring to play as you make it. There is a lot of room for versatility and he will probably offer more challenges than the elf. You will have to think more tactically and exploit enemy and terrain to a higher degree.
I like Kharne best.
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I prefer Paladin/Sorcer arcane archers; archery lines don't have anywhere close to as many feat requirements as melée, and the save buff and quick-action 3d6 healing is great. Actually my next Society character; kinda a dramatic change from my borderline-evil melée bard.
The fighter does have advantage of falling back to melée, but the paladin is more resiliant and can fall back onto his 7 levels of caster, plus his arrows get a stupid number of keywords from pally-buff AND archer buff.
I would go for Kharne too.
Thing about Arcane Archers, is they are really more for a fighting/spellcasting mix.
Qualifying with one level of Wizard leaves your spellcasting too weak to make much use of that.
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See, I would go similar to your build for AA, but again, pal 4 / fighter 1 / sorceror 2 / arcane archer 8. You end up with a slightly lower to hit (-4 relative to straight fighter) but higher damage output, way higher saves (will post build at home, but my saves are Fort +26, Ref +23, Wil +21), and you heal 2d6 per round 6 rounds / day (my build is also non-Str based, but higher con, so 145 hp at level 15). And smite is "dumb good". But mostly i'm a save hoar, and the extra fighter feats pale to +6 to all saves higher caster level and the smite-awesomeness a pally induces.
I disagree on caster being irrelevant; 8 levels of caster (10th caster level) is nothing to sneeze at. Arcane sight fixes lots of issues, and alter self, haste (boots are only 10 rds / day), etc. It really does a good bit.
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That sounds like a very strong build Thalin. Does having 3 base classes however get you an xp penalty in Pathfinder? Especially as an elf without wizard, for arcane archer. Or is that something that doesn't exist in pathfinder, I'm still ironing out the kinks.
No exp penalty, but as long as you stay within your favored class (which you choose at 1st level, although half-elves can pick *two* favored classes), you get your choice of +1 hp or +1 skill point for that level. With his class, your best bet would be FC Paladin, for four bonus points.
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Used your template, tried to generally keep items etc the same, though you can't pass up on the Luckstone at 15th level :). For the record, I would generally just buy a +1 Holy Shocking Icy bow and have my Cleric pal GMW it up to +3 for 15 hours at this level, but I kept to the +5 because my Cleric friend isn't here.
Also note that the stats assume you don't use that Wand of Divine Favor, which adds +5 to each attack and damage (50 charges for 11K). Also, above you undercharged for the bow, which is 50K, not 26100.
Like Divine Favor, one really nice thing is he can pick up ANY hand magic item and use it that happens to be around, notably CLW wands post combat (750 gold for 50 charges, many people complain these are too efficient). I also like the "Dumb but loveable" guys more :).
Llareth the Holy (25 Point buy)
Male Half-Elven Paladin 4 Fighter 1 Sorcerer 2 Arcane Archer 8
Alignment: N
Str: 14 [5 points]
Dex: 22 (+6) [13 points, +2 race, +3 levels, +4 enhance.]
Con: 14 (+2) [5 points]
Int: 7 (-2) [4 point gain]
Wis: 7 (-2) [4 point gain]
Cha: 22 (+6) [10 points]
Class and Racial abilities:
Half-Elven Racial traits (Favored Classes Arcane Archer and Paladin, Skill Focus: UMD)
Arcane Bond (Composite Longbow) - sure we'll copy this one over and put you in Arcane school for sorcery, because Troll likes arcane bonds.
Heal 2d6 8 times per day and remove Fatigue.. swift action on self if not Arcane Striking
Immune to all diseases, Immune to fear
Smite Evil 2 times / day … declare evil foe, all attacks +6 to hit, +4 damage vs that foe... +12 if the foe is Evil Extraplanar, Undead, or Evil Dragon (and god help the evil extraplanar Dracolith).
Paladar (detect evil at will)
Caster 8th (10th caster level) Sorcerer, 4th level (1st caster level) Paladin
Enhance Arrows (Magic, Elemental, Distance, Elemental Burst)
Imbue Arrow
Seeker Arrow
Phase Arrow
Hail of Arrows
Hit Dice: 13d10+2d6 +30
Hit Points: 118
AC: 32 (+9 Armor, +6 Dexterity, +1 haste, +3 Ring of Protection, +3 Amulet of Natural Armour) [Touch 23, Flat-footed 27]. With Shield spell 36
Init: +9 (+6 Dex, +1 Competence, +2 trait)
Speed: 30ft (60 When hasted)
Saves:
Fortitude +26 [+4 Pal base +2 Fighter Base +4 AA +4 Con +6 Pal +5 Resist +1 luck.]
Reflex +24 [+1 Pal base +4 AA base, +6 Dex, +5 Resist, +1 Haste +6 Pal. +1 luck]
Will +19 [+4 Pal base +2 Sorc Base +3 AA -2 Wis penalty +5 Resist +6 Pal +1 luck]
BAB: +14
Ranged Atk: +24/+24/+24/+19/+17/+12 (1d8+2d6+26 19/20x3)
(Attack Breakdown: 14 BAB, +6 Dex, +1 Weapon Focus, +5 Enhancement, +2 competence, +1 luck, +1 haste, -2 Rapid Fire, -4 Deadly Aim).
(Damage Breakdown: 4.5 average of 1d8, +1d6 Elemental Burst +1d6 Flame arrow +2 Strength, +5 Enhancement, \+5 Arcane Strike, +8 Deadly Aim, +1 Competence, First attack deals double damage.)
(Note that both of these assume he doesn't use his wand of Divine Favor, which lasts 15 minutes for a charge. If he does, +5 attack and +5 damage, and he taps the UMD on this; he'll generally do this when going into a dangerous area, wand charges are 255 GP each, which honestly isn't much at this level).
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Only Llareth has the bow at 26100, due to it being his arcane bond, he crafted it himself at half price. That character is pretty impressive Thalin, and I like the idea about going for an elemental bow over a straight +5, that just makes sense in a world of hours/day Greater magic weapon. I've decided to go with Kharne, thanks for everyones input, I've learned alot.
