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It's an interesting idea, but I think it would take a lot of the fun out of social encounters. Mostly, I enjoy social encounters because they provide an excellent roleplaying opportunity to my players and serve as a nice contrasting 'yang,' to the 'yin' that is combat.
Honestly, though, the idea of insult swordfighting from the Monkey Island games immediately popped into my head while reading this. :)
In terms of adding a mechanical aspect to roleplay and other non-combat situations I actually like the 4E skill challenge concept. I always used to do something like it but never tried to formalize it.
What I do now is for social situations I have something that looks kind of like a flow chart. Where one successful skill check (which gets bonuses or penalties for good roleplaying) leads to a new social challenge or new skill.
IE the players need to talk their way into an event they are not allowed in. A disguide check, or forgery (is that linguistics now?) can boost their bluff checks to get through the guards, then diplomacy and bluff to fit in with the crowd. All the while I am responding in character for the NPC's and the Players are Roleplaying the skill checks. If they have enough successful rolls before a certain amount of failures, then they have succeffully blended in and it goes to a straight roleplay encounter without skill checks neccesarily needed, and I give out experience for it.
I use trap dcs to set CR appropriate DCs, and give out experience, which I always did for Roleplaying but now its a little less arbitrary. I dont know if that kind of a mechanic would work for you, but it is what I generally use.
I can completely understand for the bulk of the population of roleplayers out there that a really involved system mechanic for social interaction is something that isn't desired.
That's not quite true. White Wolf's WoD series has a universal mechanics for physical and social interactions, and it worked superbly for roleplayers. As a matter of fact, a lot of my friend (eternal Vampire players) look down on anything D&D for its inability to handle social encounters (which I don't think is quite true but anyways...)
So I think it CAN be done, but I'm not too sure if I like the idea of having a social AC, even if the exercise of figuring out what conditions would make you socially flat-footed or denied a Wis bonus to Social AC would be fun.
In a way, it comes down to what system properly represents what type of game. I don't believe in systems that do EVERYTHING, I prefer systems that are suited for a certain type of game without clogging the mechanics with additional sub-systems to answer every possible situation. The White Wolf system for example, work really badly when it involves normal being without supernatural powers of some sort.
However, using an already existing mechanic would be the way to go. I encourage you to build something-up and surprise us.
'findel
I was really excited when I first heard about skill challenges and we started using them, even before 4e was released. However ultimately they died off. The players just didn't really get how to use them, and went into their normal tactical min-max mode. In the end the system loosened up to the point that we were just doing things as normal, with extended skill encounters where people rolled whatever skill was needed on an ad hoc basis.
The major problem there was that skills often present an success/failure event collapsed into one roll. While skill challenges are meant to lengthen that and bring some sense of "hit points" into the mix with a series of successes and failures, the overall architecture can't be easily strategized.
I think what's being aimed at with a different system is trying to get a tactical feel to a social conflict and being able to engage in the drama where resources are being expended and depleted.
You definately have to make an effort to get used to skill challenges, but the key, at least for me was to make them less apparent. If a player failed a bluff or diplomacy roll I dont just end the conversation, the next dc is just a little harder, and so long as he doesnt fail too many before succeeding ultimately, it works. The key is for players to understand they have a chance to try again, which can be presented through the actions and words of the npc.
It's not a d20 game, but the Suzerain RPG from Talisman studios has a social combat system (as well as a mental/logic combat system). You can get their rules system for free, which details the basic combat structure, then look up their Social Maneuver and Mental Maneuver feats at The Vault. The whole system is a fairly standard "random number plus attribute" concept, so should be readily adaptable to a d20 system.
Talisman is also releasing this as a Savage Worlds title and they have a beta out for free, but I haven't checked it out to see if the above system is incorporated.
Characters aren't just builds. Social interaction is where the "who am I" part of a character shines and should not be dictated by combat-type mechanics. It's also a good way of getting problem players to meld into a group. I know in one game I'm in, one player is absolutely terrible with dice rolls - she rarely rolls above a 10 on d20, regardless of the die, and usually overshoots badly with percentile dice (Palladium system). But when she's in character, it's great. That's her chance to shine. If social interaction were another system, she'd probably be lousy at that too.
It's a concept I'd never incorporate in a game I was part of.
There are, however, some options that social and mental combat systems open up that can be beneficial for the game. Take, for instance, a socially awkward player that wants to play a socially adept character (and the same can hold true for someone trying to play a super-genius). I have seen the positive results of having a mechanical system to help such players along, eventually giving them enough confidence to move beyond the system to more roleplaying.
Another useful implementation is in mirroring "court intrigue" and the like. Just as there are streamlined systems for handling sieges and mass combat, a social combat system can be used to play out the back-and-forth of social character trying to tear down an opponent. Such a process could take days/weeks in campaign time and hours in game time that the rest of the party may not enjoy. The mental combat system can likewise be used to resolve a logical dialogue/court case/etc. that might otherwise bore half or more of the party.
Now, I definitely don't advocate using such systems to replace all roleplaying in a game, but they do indeed have a constructive place in the overall game.
There are, however, some options that social and mental combat systems open up that can be beneficial for the game. Take, for instance, a socially awkward player that wants to play a socially adept character (and the same can hold true for someone trying to play a super-genius). I have seen the positive results of having a mechanical system to help such players along, eventually giving them enough confidence to move beyond the system to more roleplaying.
Another useful implementation is in mirroring "court intrigue" and the like. Just as there are streamlined systems for handling sieges and mass combat, a social combat system can be used to play out the back-and-forth of social character trying to tear down an opponent. Such a process could take days/weeks in campaign time and hours in game time that the rest of the party may not enjoy. The mental combat system can likewise be used to resolve a logical dialogue/court case/etc. that might otherwise bore half or more of the party.
Now, I definitely don't advocate using such systems to replace all roleplaying in a game, but they do indeed have a constructive place in the overall game.
my concern would be how to implement it. This mental combat will likely take as long as regular combat to enact, you are going to need to find a way for non-social characters to participate in a meaningful way. I am not sure how that can be done without creating like dual characters or something.
my concern would be how to implement it. This mental combat will likely take as long as regular combat to enact, you are going to need to find a way for non-social characters to participate in a meaningful way. I am not sure how that can be done without creating like dual characters or something.
It can actually be implemented during combat in some circumstances (brainiac has to overcome the mental challenge while everyone else keeps the bad guys from killing him). My group generally enjoys watching scenes unfold, so they also wouldn't mind doing some sideline items (keeping an eye on the crowd, etc.) while this type of thing occurs. But I know not all groups are so amenable. I also do sidebars with my players on a semi-regular basis anyway, say when the party is split or something is happening to some while others are unaware. Sometimes it just comes down to "look, this player has to suck it up while you go through every tactical option for inflicting maximum pain--it's you're turn" but that's fairly rare for me.