Question about the mage in thistle top

[Tonydd]

Me and my party just went to the final battle at thistle top and one of our characters was blinded by the spell from the mage. Our DM said that the fortitude save target roll for her spell was 18. He is a new at pathfinder and after thinking about it I was wondering if he had made a mistake. From what I can tell that would mean she has an int of 22. 10 plus spell level 2 plus relevant modifier which would need to be +6 hence 22. That seems really high for a relatively love level character. Is that correct, does she have a 18 save target on her blindness spell? Tx Tony

[Zaister]

It seems your GM has customized the adventure because as printed no NPC has the blindness/deafness spell prepared or even in their spellbook.

If the mage you are referring to is Lyrie, as printed the DC against a 2nd level cast by her spell would be far less then 18.

[Charles Evans 25]

lolo969 wrote:

Me and my party just went to the final battle at thistle top and one of our characters was blinded by the spell from the mage. Our DM said that the fortitude save target roll for her spell was 18. He is a new at pathfinder and after thinking about it I was wondering if he had made a mistake. From what I can tell that would mean she has an int of 22. 10 plus spell level 2 plus relevant modifier which would need to be +6 hence 22. That seems really high for a relatively love level character. Is that correct, does she have a 18 save target on her blindness spell? Tx Tony

Some sort of customization seems to me as if it may have been carried out, from what is as written, but whether any maths is correct I do not know.

The base save DC for a spell is 10+Spell level + other modifiers.

If the caster is a arcane caster (Bard/Sorcerer/Wizard) blindness/deafness is a second level spell, whereas if the caster is a Cleric it is a third level spell.

So an arcane Caster has a minimum DC of 12+ other modifiers on the spell, a cleric a minimum DC of 13 + other modifiers.
Besides ability score modifiers to spell DCs (for which 22 or 23 would be needed for +6, 20 or 21 for +5, 18 or 19 for +4, and 16 or 17 for +3) there are feats such as Spell Focus (Necromancy) and Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy) which will boost the save DC of Necromancy spells by +1 each. (In theory a 15th level Arcane bloodline sorcerer under PFRPG rules would have +2 to their favourite school as well, but I think a 15th level sorcerer would have been doing a little bit more than tossing around blindness/deafness at a low level party.) There are also 'buff' spells or potions that provide a temporary boost to abilities such as Eagle's Splendour (+4 to Charisma score for the duration) which translate into a temporary +2 to DC of saves against spells cast by techniques associated with that stat. I think that in theory it's possible that one of the low level NPCs around Thistletop could be customized to have a DC 18 save on a second level spell, but that would indicate to me anyway that the DM had been rewriting the stat blocks.

Questions:
1) Blindness/deafness aside, did everyone enjoy the experience in general?
2) After the game was over, did you (taking 10 on your Diplomacy check) express your surprise over how high the save DC of that particular spell was to the DM? If something has left you feeling slightly aggrieved, and there was a genuine error with the maths which a novice DM could profitably learn from for the future, then it doesn't achieve much to keep quiet about it. Try to be polite when you raise such things though, as (most) DM's are human beings too, and if it was an unintended mistake it won't do much good ranting at your DM about it.

[Evil Lincoln]

10
+3 (int 16)
+1 (Pathfinder human Int bonus)
+2 (fox's cunning)
+1 (spell focus)
+2 (spell's level)
= 19.

Not the stats for that character as printed, but well within the realm of possibility. My guess is that they took her printed stats and added in the +2 human ability bonus to Int, and one or two of the above buffs.

Every NPC you encounter in Runelords should be customized in some way, since they're 3.5 stats and these NPCs will be pushovers otherwise.

Even if I'm wrong and your GM has made a mistake, your job is not to question him, but to survive. Even if that means running away. It is well within the GM's right to make an encounter harder because they feel like doing so — they know the plot and you don't. Remember this: there are encounters in this campaign it is best to run from.

Just remember, Challenge Rating is a GM tool, not a contract with the player.

Good luck!