Spell Compendium - Balanced OK for Pathfinder?

[Daniel Moyer]

Sooooo... the long story short of 100 posts in this thread is:

It's OK to have answers for problems, EXCEPT for Spell Resistance, which a player should never EVER have a "spell-answer" for, specifically one that deals damage to a single target like an Orb.

So whenever your party encounters say a Rakshasa who has SR, DR and high AC... it's time to make sandwiches so you can prove to your party you've done something useful. That's not even getting into Devils, Demons and Dragons.

Question and Answer:
- Locked door, Knock.
- Big thugs, Grease.
- Ninjas, Web.
- Large crowd, Fireball.(Lightning Bolt, etc.)
- Buffed Enemy, Dispel Magic.
- Spell Resistance... Oops sorry, better make some sandwiches, cuz the rest of the party is probably gonna be hungry when they're done. Hold the mayo, the Rogue is allergic.

*shrugs*

[blope]

Since the spell compendium is being discussed...there are spells in there that help you beat spell resistance. No need to rely on orbs or other no SR spells if you don't want to.

[Daniel Moyer]

blope wrote:

Since the spell compendium is being discussed...there are spells in there that help you beat spell resistance. No need to rely on orbs or other no SR spells if you don't want to.

But THOSE are also EVIL* and represent a means by which to unravel creation in it's entirity. You're simply NOT allowed to have an answer for SR, SORRY. *oodles of sarcasm*

*Also see BROKEN/OP. Not a reference to the alignment system.

[A Man In Black]

Bill Dunn wrote:

I still think they're bad in the hands of a wizard. Wizards get plenty of area control spells, as you all keep pointing out, and save-or-sit spells that usually have to contend with spell resistance. The orb spells belong on lists for spellcasters that rely on blasting and lack save-or-sit spells... mainly the warmage. Giving them to wizards is bad balance because it widens their choices of SR-beating penetrating spells - and SR is supposed to be a method of making spell-casting less reliable for those wizards.

Except for all the save-or-sit spells that don't rely on spell resistance. It's very hard to build a case that the orbs are overpowered when you have experienced wizard and sorcerer optimizers lining up to say that "I wouldn't use them even if they were available" and it's very hard to point to a case where they break the game.

[Zurai]

As a backup to that argument, a common source of "Orbs are OP!" complaints is wizard vs golem.

The problem in that is that grease (even the Pathfinder, nerfed grease) does an even better job of neutralizing golems than orb of foo does, and it's a level 1 spell.

[mdt]

Zurai wrote:

As a backup to that argument, a common source of "Orbs are OP!" complaints is wizard vs golem.

The problem in that is that grease (even the Pathfinder, nerfed grease) does an even better job of neutralizing golems than orb of foo does, and it's a level 1 spell.

Have to agree, I've played warmages and such with access to orb, and it was never overpowered. They just don't do as much damage as SR vulnerable spells over the levels. It's more like trading a moderate amount of damage that works vs lots of damage you can't use unless you beat the SR. Over time though, it averages out about the same.

And I agree, grease, stone to mud (cast on the floor under the golem, not on the golem) works wonders. Especially if you cast mud to stone afterwards. :)

[A Man In Black]

Zurai wrote:

The problem in that is that grease (even the Pathfinder, nerfed grease) does an even better job of neutralizing golems than orb of foo does, and it's a level 1 spell.

Obscuring Mist does an even better job, since it's no save.

[xorial]

My last thought on blasters. No, they may not be the best 'build', BUT people that resolve all of their problems with violence arent the best builds in reality either. That said, playing a blaster mage is FUN. Bottom line, that is what the game is all about. Plenty of characters in movies show that the guy blowing sh!7 up could do things better, but the character is fun to watch and the audience eats that up. So, to me, there is NOTHING suboptimal with the blaster. It is a personality of a character, not an optimal build choice. (Side note, I HATE it when people want to 'optimize' a character this much. Who cares? Every party that I have ran, when there is a powergamer like that makes it where the rest of the players don't even want to play anymore.)

On the orb spells. I like them, because they bypass SR. That isnt wrong, as pointed out already. I guess Superman should tell Lex Luthor, "No, you can't use kryptonite. The rules clearly state I am invincible, so you can't have anything to bypass that."