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Can a spellcaster cast a spell at a lower level. That is to say, they are 10th level, but for whatever reason, they want to cast a spell as if they were a lower level, can they?
Wizzo the 10th level Wizard wants his fireball to go off at 4d6 damage instead of 10d6, for example.
He's using the same spell slots and all.
Thanks.
Can a spellcaster cast a spell at a lower level. That is to say, they are 10th level, but for whatever reason, they want to cast a spell as if they were a lower level, can they?
Wizzo the 10th level Wizard wants his fireball to go off at 4d6 damage instead of 10d6, for example.
He's using the same spell slots and all.
Thanks.
Yes. That is how casters can create wands with a lesser cost if they dont need the full affect as an example.
Sort of a threadjack, so I apologize.
It's sort of a Vancian vs Power Point issue, but your question struck something interesting to me. If the caster decides that he doesn't want to fuel the full potential of the spell when casting, it would be nice to have the 'reserves' for that 'untapped' resource to be channeled / funneled to overchannel another spell.
It would probably be too cumbersome or broken, I suspect. But it's an interesting idea.
I read a story once in which a powerful D&D wizard deliberately cast spells at a lower level in order to infiltrate an adventuring party. That way, they'd be completely unprepared when he revealed his true power.
Wizzo the 10th level Wizard wants his fireball to go off at 4d6 damage instead of 10d6, for example.
Thanks.
Do note that the minimum caster level for fireball is still 5th, so the minimum damage would be 5d6. Just like when scribbing scrolls, you can lower the caster level as much as you want, but you must still meet the requirement for the spell level via your caster level (eg. fireball 3rd level spell = 5th caster level for a wiz, or 6th for a sorc).
I read a story once in which a powerful D&D wizard deliberately cast spells at a lower level in order to infiltrate an adventuring party. That way, they'd be completely unprepared when he revealed his true power.
Sounds like an interesting idea.
Do note that the minimum caster level for fireball is still 5th, so the minimum damage would be 5d6. Just like when scribbing scrolls, you can lower the caster level as much as you want, but you must still meet the requirement for the spell level via your caster level (eg. fireball 3rd level spell = 5th caster level for a wiz, or 6th for a sorc).
Interestingly enough, this is not the case. Item creation explicitly requires that you make the item at the minimum level required to cast the spell; however, I've seen more than one situation where a caster level penalty creates e.g. a 3d6 fireball (in one case this was the actual example). So I'm pretty sure you're allowed to fudge down as far as you want as long as you're qualified in the first place.
however, I've seen more than one situation where a caster level penalty creates e.g. a 3d6 fireball (in one case this was the actual example). So I'm pretty sure you're allowed to fudge down as far as you want as long as you're qualified in the first place.
Is that an intext exemple or inplay exemple ?
Ability pt damage, penalty and drain are relevent to this discussion certainly. Would you allow the use of power attack if a fighter has one of those conditions that lowers his Str score under the feat requirement ?
In the same spirit i'd say if your caster level is reduced below the minimum casting requirement you simply can't cast the spell.
Jelly
Is that an intext exemple or inplay exemple ?
Text. Unfortunately, while I remember the 3d6 fireball quite clearly, I don't remember where it was. :P
Would you allow the use of power attack if a fighter has one of those conditions that lowers his Str score under the feat requirement ?
In the same spirit i'd say if your caster level is reduced below the minimum casting requirement you simply can't cast the spell.
A character with a 12 Int can never, ever cast a 3rd level wizard spell, just as a character with a 12 Str can never, ever power attack. However, a character who gains power attack as a bonus feat at 5th level can use the feat despite suffering negative levels, just as a 5th level wizard can cast fireball despite negative levels. (Hey, there's your in-play example.)
Do note that the minimum caster level for fireball is still 5th, so the minimum damage would be 5d6. Just like when scribbing scrolls, you can lower the caster level as much as you want, but you must still meet the requirement for the spell level via your caster level (eg. fireball 3rd level spell = 5th caster level for a wiz, or 6th for a sorc).Interestingly enough, this is not the case. Item creation explicitly requires that you make the item at the minimum level required to cast the spell; however, I've seen more than one situation where a caster level penalty creates e.g. a 3d6 fireball (in one case this was the actual example). So I'm pretty sure you're allowed to fudge down as far as you want as long as you're qualified in the first place.
Other than the rare cornercase described above, what Jellyfulfish said holds. And in a case where you're having a penalty... I'm not sure it's appropriate to award it like that (For instance, in the above example *your* caster level would still need to be 5th, to get a 3d6 effect, so it would make sense to have to craft it at 5th price, and still get the 3d6 effect - no reason your scribed/crafted spells would be more effective than your cast spells).
That might be overpenalizing, and totally up to DM discretion, but the rewarding would be a DM decision as well.
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Text. Unfortunately, while I remember the 3d6 fireball quite clearly, I don't remember where it was. :P
You remember the lower d6 fireballs from the Necklace of Fireballs, which can go as low as 1d6. I think there were also some 3.0 (as opposed to 3.5) items that were lower than the caster level typically assumed.
You remember the lower d6 fireballs from the Necklace of Fireballs, which can go as low as 1d6. I think there were also some 3.0 (as opposed to 3.5) items that were lower than the caster level typically assumed.
Actually, no. It definitely wasn't a wondrous item, it was something which would normally be assumed to have a 5d6 minimum for fireballs. I remember it had something to do with an actual caster, who had access to spells but an explicit caster level penalty below those spells' normal level. Or possibly someone who could create a spell trigger item (wand?) at a lower level than normal (artificer?). Really, this was a long while back, I never played the class/option/whatever, but it stuck in my head as "you can voluntarily lower caster level below the level at which you gain the slot."
Wish I remembered it better, heh. :P
Ability pt damage, penalty and drain are relevent to this discussion certainly. Would you allow the use of power attack if a fighter has one of those conditions that lowers his Str score under the feat requirement ?
If the fighter suffers Str damage he still can use power attack.
Diseases, poisons, spells, and other abilities can all deal damage directly to your ability scores. This damage does not actually reduce an ability, but it does apply a penalty to the skills and statistics that are based on that ability.
If it's drain; then no. Ability drain actually reduces the relevant ability score.
In the same spirit i'd say if your caster level is reduced below the minimum casting requirement you simply can't cast the spell.
Negative levels are also treated as a penalty...
The creature is also treated as one level lower for the purpose of level-dependent variables (such as spellcasting) for each negative level possessed. Spellcasters do not lose any prepared spells or slots as a result of negative levels.
I read this so our 5th level wizard with 2 negative levels can still cast fireball and it deals 3d6 damage.
And for willingly lower your caster level:
Caster LevelA spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell.
You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.
In the event that a class feature or other special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as range, duration, and damage dealt), but also to your caster level check to overcome your target's spell resistance and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both the dispel check and the DC of the check).
This applies also to crafting. The necklace of fireballs is a set, the cheapest one(type I) dealing in total 11d6 damage split between 3 beads.
Is that an intext exemple or inplay exemple ?Text. Unfortunately, while I remember the 3d6 fireball quite clearly, I don't remember where it was. :P
A character with a 12 Int can never, ever cast a 3rd level wizard spell, just as a character with a 12 Str can never, ever power attack. However, a character who gains power attack as a bonus feat at 5th level can use the feat despite suffering negative levels, just as a 5th level wizard can cast fireball despite negative levels. (Hey, there's your in-play example.)Would you allow the use of power attack if a fighter has one of those conditions that lowers his Str score under the feat requirement ?
In the same spirit i'd say if your caster level is reduced below the minimum casting requirement you simply can't cast the spell.
There is no level requirement for power attack and you don't lose feats with negative levels.
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I believe that Artificers were able to scribe a scroll with a caster level of 3. Something about how they made things using UMD. I believe that they used fireball as the example for the reduced damage.
Then your creating something like a wand, potion or scroll, your more then capable of making it at a higher caster level so it's said. You just end up paying more for it.
It'd probably be up to your GM to decide if they want magic to work like that in the game. I'd probably allow you to pull your caster level but you wouldn't get any sort of discount on it, and if you prepare spells your going to have to do it at the time your memorizing it.
Is that an intext exemple or inplay exemple ?Text. Unfortunately, while I remember the 3d6 fireball quite clearly, I don't remember where it was. :P
I believe you are speaking of this:
PRD -> Glossary -> Enegy Drain and Negative Levels:
"For each negative level a creature has, it takes a cumulative –1 penalty on all ability checks, attack rolls, combat maneuver checks, Combat Maneuver Defense, saving throws, and skill checks. In addition, the creature reduces its current and total hit points by 5 for each negative level it possesses. The creature is also treated as one level lower for the purpose of level-dependent variables (such as spellcasting) for each negative level possessed. Spellcasters do not lose any prepared spells or slots as a result of negative levels."
...which basically can lead to a 5th-level Wizard hit by a couple of Wights who can only cast 3d6 (caster level 3, due to 2 Negative Levels) Fireballs.
EDIT: wow, ninja'ed by nidho TWO DAYS ago... what a slowpoke I am...