RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
|
I'm not bashing teachers, Moff. I think schools are underfunded and students get put into classes that are much too large. I think teachers are overworked and are forced to teach towards the middle. I think students are taught to not be intellectually curious by curriculum that is often not targetting their needs and interests but those of the state. I'm not bashing teachers; I'm questioning schooling.
I taught for two years.
I've taught for thirteen (but only two was in a middle or high school exclusively).
Regardless of how you feel, teaching happens in the home. If it doesn't happen in the home, teachers spend more time actually combating that lack than actually teaching.
Agreed, kind of, in principle. Learning happens in the home. A lot of that learning doesn't involve anything that looks like teaching. If, as you've said, that learning is so very important, maybe schools/teaching should look a little more like that informal learning environment.
The way I see it, the main difference between homeschool and more "traditional" school is that with homeschool the child is FAR less influenced by others and will also not influence others as much. But in either case, if you are not teaching your children at home first, the child will take that as a cue as to how much effort they should put into it.
I'm not really arguing for home schools. I'm asking if mainstream schools as they exist today in almost all industrialized countries are really a model worth defending. Maybe we need to rethink them?
I still kind of feel like you think that you are the "majority". My experience seems to show that gamers (especially pen & paper gamers) are much more intelligent than the "norm".
I don't think I'm in the majority. I do think that a large part of what we see as intelligence has to do with environment and am suggesting schools are not the best environment for learning.
You could have done your scenario. Your kids could. My kids could. But there is a whole world out there where it wouldn't work at all.
I want my kids to have that chance but I can't afford to pay a dollar more for their education. I offer up to the state two children who enter kindergarten doing basic math, speaking two or more languages, reading three years above their age level, ... I just ask that the state not punish them for this by making them sit in classes that ask them to colour in the letter A and circle the picture with "more apples". I'm not saying that colouring the letter A and circling the picture with "more apples" is a bad thing. I just wanted differentiated instruction for my kids and I've been asking for it for years. Other parents on this thread have children with learning disabilities and want the same thing for their kids -- differentiated instruction. I agree with them. If schools can't hack it, schools need to be rethought.
Teachers get a bad rap. I taught 180 different kids a day. 6 classes of around 30 kids each.
I spend my life with teachers. I'm not attacking teachers.
How do you motivate someone who has spent the last 8 years figuring out how not to do work? Do you really think that the above scenario would have helped?
Yes. Look at biographies of troubled kids who went on to become successful learners. They may have been surrounded by caring and talented teachers but it was quite often outside of the school that the love for learning was sparked -- in prison, in the library, in the workplace. I think surrounding kids with stimulating learning environments and letting them explore their interests would be better than schooling as it looks today. Schools are very, very slowly being dragged BACK towards this way of teaching/learning.
One class was so bad and I was at my wits end. Nothing I did had any effect. Then I tried to time them on a worksheet -- "You have 5 minutes to complete this worksheet. Go." It was great -- 5 minutes of silence as they worked to do it -- why?
Level appropriate challenge? A clear goal? A well-designed task? Hands-on, engaged learning? Sounds like the kind of thing that a stimulating learning environment should contain.
Sorry, I'm rambling. I just have strong feelings about this. The teacher's job (as impossible as it is) is made easier or harder based on what happens in the kids' homes.
Agreed. But, what if we do stuff right in the homes? I'm not a perfect parent but I turn out good product. Why do I have to go around kicking myself for putting my children into a school system that is clearly not meeting their needs? It could! It could meet their needs! It wouldn't be hard. First, though, we have to kick our heads in gear and reimagine schooling.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
|
... but shouldn't the first question be 'Why schooling?'. Convince me they are worth saving.While there are all kinds of statistics going around about how great homeschooling is, I really think that a lot of these results take some things for granted. I'd be curious to find out what the average IQ of the parents are that are doing the homeschooling. I have a rather strong suspicion that it is considerably higher than average. Which tells me that as many people that are out there that can homeschool, there are many more that either can't or shouldn't.
In your opinion, what do you think would happen to the majority of kids out there if there wasn't a public school system? Sure there are problems -- especially with each individual district/school -- but that doesn't necessarily mean you should throw out the baby with the bathwater.
It's part of the me first approach that many take when it comes to the question of public funding. "I can take care of my kids, the rest can go hang." While some may homeschool thier own kids successfully, the kids that fall through the gaps become long term problems and burdens among society. I can definitely tell you from my personal experience that neither of my parents had neither the resources nor the proper inclination to be homeschoolers. Then again, practically the only thing that qualified them as parents was biology.
What we're lacking these days is more enlightenment in our self-interest, the recognition of the fact that our neighbor's problems are our own as well.
It shouldn't have to be a choice between schools as they now exist and homeschooling. We should be able to reimagine public education. C'mon, we're gamers -- more intelligent than the norm (apparently) and quite imaginative people. What would your better learning environment look like?
|
About Teachers, yes they get a bad rep, but I suspect that it's more of an American attitude.
And yet every politician of every party makes statements about how "We need to honor teachers" to great applause.
It has been my experience that most Americans honor teaching as a concept, appreciate good teachers and wish that there was some way to get rid of bad teachers protected by tenure. This has been my experience in every section of the country in which I have lived.
|
|
This is my opinion, so take it at that...
Moff, out of interest, assuming that you are correct, that the majority of children don't want to learn because of the examples at home, and thus resist learning - is the cost benefit of pumping them through the college-prep system worthwhile or should the system be re-examined to determine whether or not there might be better ways of training a workforce?
This is complicated to say the least. There are economic factors. Location issues. Even racial issues -- (I had a really smart black girl in one of my classes -- a real rarity where I was -- who started to do worse and worse in my class and I couldn't figure out why. I found out that she was "tanking" her tests because her friends didn't consider her "black" because she was smart.)
It may come down to the "lesser of two evils" -- unfortunately. I believe that there were a few kids that I was able to help influence to be more than their environment tried to make them. (I saw one of my kids recently who was getting a degree in Mathematics -- brought a tear to my eye.) If this mediocre system wasn't in place, I wonder where they would have ended up. Was it worth it? I don't know.
Should the system be re-examined? It always is. But I still don't feel that that is where the problem is. It's like fixing cancer with a band-aide. The solution is to get people to be better parents -- but you can't force that.
It's also what's important to the majority. If they can't get more or better funding in taxes for the school systems, but we pass a tax to fund a new Bronco's stadium...
Also, assuming the majority of homeschooling families are inherently more interested in academics than the norm, why should we be criticized for wanting to pull our children out of a system geared towards mediocrity and those who hate to learn?
Life is not necessarily only about academics. If my son, being in the school system, starts striving for mediocrity, then I blame myself. The other thought is -- if you take all the good out of a system, what are you left with? I want my son there as an example to others. I want him to influence others. I want him to push others for much more than mediocrity. He'll get academics regardless. How much good can he do for the system if he isn't in it?
|
|
It has been my experience that most Americans honor teaching as a concept, appreciate good teachers and wish that there was some way to get rid of bad teachers protected by tenure. This has been my experience in every section of the country in which I have lived.
There's the statement -- "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach."
Part of me loved teaching. Part of me felt that it was far too much like being an underpaid baby-sitter.
I was a good teacher. In a very difficult environment. I'm making about three times what I would had I stuck with teaching. Unless I was independently wealthy, I would not be able to make ends meet if I were still in teaching. If you want good teachers, you need to pay them.
|
|
C'mon, we're gamers -- more intelligent than the norm (apparently) and quite imaginative people. What would your better learning environment look like?
The best thing I ever did was tutor math. Give me 3 to 6 kids for about a half hour a day and I can teach them three times what would amount to "normal" for a school year -- regardless of learning level.
But while I'm dreaming, I'd like a horse too.
|
|
I just wanted differentiated instruction for my kids and I've been asking for it for years. Other parents on this thread have children with learning disabilities and want the same thing for their kids -- differentiated instruction. I agree with them. If schools can't hack it, schools need to be rethought.
This is it in a nutshell. I don't think that my training taught me to do this, but I did it anyway. Actually, the school I was in was VERY accommodating and let me re-write every kids schedule to get the kids together at similar levels. Even within the class I would work to stimulate others that could and push them to do or be more.
But I'm not sure that teachers are trained in how to do this. I was also lucky to have a good administration to work with me towards this.
But then it goes to pay -- there are people out there who would make GREAT teachers. But what is the incentive if they are making three times what they would as teachers?
|
|
Life is not necessarily only about academics. If my son, being in the school system, starts striving for mediocrity, then I blame myself. The other thought is -- if you take all the good out of a system, what are you left with? I want my son there as an example to others. I want him to influence others. I want him to push others for much more than mediocrity. He'll get academics regardless. How much good can he do for the system if he isn't in it?
I would be hard pressed to think of anything the school system could provide that we can't as homeschoolers. Aside from a spot on the local football team - but none of us are natural athletes so thats a bit of a wash.
But I disagree that one should send one's children into the system in order to promote the system even if it ends up damaging the children in the end. Not to mention that for some reason the "reforms" are always promised as being a generation away. That's all well and good (if its true) for the generations after us but in the meantime you can excuse me if I think that if something should be done its better done sooner rather than later. Besides which, I don't have any faith in it. Reforms to the system were being promised when I was in school twenty years ago.
The school system is a means, not an end and I think this is something that is lost on many. What needs to be asked is what is the end result we desire from education. For myself, I want children who love to learn, can read and conprehend anything they desire to read, are well grounded with a classical liberal arts education, and who have been encouraged in creative thinking skills. Anything else, in education, is secondary.
There's the statement -- "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach."
Part of me loved teaching. Part of me felt that it was far too much like being an underpaid baby-sitter.
I was a good teacher. I'm making about three times what I would had I stuck with teaching.
That's almost exactly my own story as well. After seven years, an assistant principal finally asked my what made me think I was hired to actually teach the kids anything. So I asked for babysitting pay instead: $3/hour per kid. With that being refused as well, I filed my resignation. I'm now proving the "can't vs. do" statement to be absurdly wrong. I'm excelling at doing, am far less stressed out as a whole, I get vastly more respect from the general public, and I can now start to save towards a house, kids, retirement, etc... as Moff said, it's amazing what you can do when you triple your salary.
|
|
If you want good teachers, you need to pay them.
If you want good teachers you have to hire good teachers.
My mother is a teacher and a good one. I am, myself, a good teacher and I like teaching people. I appreciate being in the classes of good teachers and always have.
My mother has a hard time finding work as a teacher because most school systems are geared towards employing people for reasons other than teaching excellence. In the middle school/high-school (rural PA) I went to, most of the teachers were graduates of the high-school or were (or were married to) coaches of some sport or another. The chemistry teacher, who had been there for years, was rumored to keep a still in his closet and was habitually drunk. The art teacher was a known cocaine user and dealer*. There were some good teachers but the majority of them were best described as mediocre. The problem was not an issue of being paid or even of being paid well. It was a problem conflated by the teaching union on the one side and the school board on the other. The teachers union was more concerned with protecting its membership and the school board was apparently more concerned with sports and maintaining a certain community spirit.
* I've been slightly out of touch with the community but I think the art teacher was finally let go after a run in or two with the law.
The problem was not an issue of being paid or even of being paid well. It was a problem conflated by the teaching union on the one side and the school board on the other. The teachers union was more concerned with protecting its membership and the school board was apparently more concerned with sports and maintaining a certain community spirit.
Agree stongly on one hand, and disagree on the other.
Many of my so-called "colleagues" were unqualified to wash out the test tubes in my classroom. Part of the reason for that is that the standards for teachers are so abysmally low: anyone with the IQ of tinfoil could qualify. The thing is, there is almost ZERO incentive for anyone with any more ability than that to teach! Pay is indeed an issue.
P.S. The union never protected me at all; mostly they just took my dues and left me alone. The problem was that I had to be a member in order to get personal liability insurance, without which I could not teach.
|
|
But then it goes to pay -- there are people out there who would make GREAT teachers. But what is the incentive if they are making three times what they would as teachers?
If you could guarantee that you could fire a teacher who was not doing the job then I would probably be with you in advocating paying them more. The problem with the current system is that the schools are forced to pay the bad teachers just as well as they pay the good teachers.
Personally, the older I get, the more I think an apprenticeship system has a lot going for it. Most people enjoy teaching what they are good at. And most people don't want to quit what they are good at or love doing in order to teach. Why drag productive people away from their profession so that they can make less money while teaching others to follow that profession. Its much more sensible to continue working while teaching and as the groups would tend to be smaller, the education would be better.
|
|
I don't think I'm communicating well or clearly.
I would be hard pressed to think of anything the school system could provide that we can't as homeschoolers. Aside from a spot on the local football team - but none of us are natural athletes so thats a bit of a wash.
I want my child to experience the bad as well as the good. I want him to be bullied. (At least some.) I want him to have a bad teacher. As I said, my children will learn academics well -- regardless of school. But I also want him to learn to deal with life's "crap". Life is a harsh teacher. I want him to know how to deal with it.
But I disagree that one should send one's children into the system in order to promote the system even if it ends up damaging the children in the end.
The "system" exists. Whether you promote it or not. I really don't see it changing. Maybe it's a bit pessimistic, but I feel that all we can do is do our best to make the best out of a bad situation. Many people don't have a choice. We are not an island. By pulling our kids out, are we not making it worse for the others who don't have a choice?
Not to mention that for some reason the "reforms" are always promised as being a generation away. That's all well and good (if its true) for the generations after us but in the meantime you can excuse me if I think that if something should be done its better done sooner rather than later. Besides which, I don't have any faith in it. Reforms to the system were being promised when I was in school twenty years ago.
A "generation" is 4 years. (or possibly 8 depending on how the election went.) In order for true reform to happen, you need to get everyone to agree and buy into it. There are too many people -- and most of those people don't understand the whole picture. Don't count on reform.
The school system is a means, not an end and I think this is something that is lost on many. What needs to be asked is what is the end result we desire from education. For myself, I want children who love to learn, can read and conprehend anything they desire to read, are well grounded with a classical liberal arts education, and who have been encouraged in creative thinking skills. Anything else, in education, is secondary.
I agree. But I also feel that I define the "ends" -- not the school.
|
|
If you could guarantee that you could fire a teacher who was not doing the job then I would probably be with you in advocating paying them more. The problem with the current system is that the schools are forced to pay the bad teachers just as well as they pay the good teachers.
Oh yes. I've always felt that was a SERIOUS problem with teaching and the whole union thing. What other job out there do you get paid more for doing mediocre to crap work? There is no incentive for a teacher to do more or do better or to even be a great teacher. They will still get paid based on time and what degree(s) they have. If there's no reward for doing well, why try harder?
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
|
the waynesboro/charlottsville area is heavy counrty/ultra christian. So you see theirs something here for everybody.
Srsly? My wife and I have a home in Cville and it's a big hippie town. Ultra-liberal academia.
Also I'm a NC native! Gamed for more than a decade in and around Fayetteville.
|
the waynesboro/charlottsville area is heavy counrty/ultra christian. So you see theirs something here for everybody.Srsly? My wife and I have a home in Cville and it's a big hippie town. Ultra-liberal academia.
Also I'm a NC native! Gamed for more than a decade in and around Fayetteville.
I guess it really depends. I lived in the RTP area for 6 months. 50% of the people I met were ultra-conservatives, the other 50% were liberal fluffies.
My dad thinks that it's going to come to a point where "they" are going to sort out children at a certain age to allow some to excel at learning and some to excel at physical activity and some to go directly to jail to keep the others in line.
Sometimes I think he's a crank and sometimes I think he's right on. I work for the library and we go to the 'alternative' schools here to supplement their tiny libraries. Some of these kids could be something (they show me art that they do, because I keep some of the best stuff on a corkboard to show to others). If an artist or musician could take these kids and teach them some fundamentals, I think they could avoid having the 'stigma' of flunking out of highschool.
The 'time limit' test Moff mentioned above is genius! Making it seem like a game show. Turn it around on them.
Totally agree that parents (and older siblings) are where kids get their lasting impressions and a kid with a hostile home life has a MUCH harder road to get to success than a kid in a loving home.
I really hate when a kid comes on the bookmobile and tells me with a smile on their face that they got suspended. Like that is an achievement!
|
|
My dad thinks that it's going to come to a point where "they" are going to sort out children at a certain age to allow some to excel at learning and some to excel at physical activity and some to go directly to jail to keep the others in line.
Part of me likes this and part of me doesn't. As I was growing up, I never felt like I had any limitations. We didn't have a lot of money, but I saw people who were pilots, teachers, law enforcement, engineers, etc. I knew that I could do whatever I set out to do. A lot of the kids that I taught didn't and don't have that. I always wanted to do more to communicate that. The one girl I gave as an example -- I wanted to shake her and tell her that she was a very smart female minority and that if she really pursued her studies that she could have a full ride scholarship to almost any school she wanted. But it was incredibly difficult for her to see past McDonalds.
Then I had the other side. I had a kid tell me he didn't need math because he was going to be a skateboarder.
"Great" I said. "But you should have a backup plan."
"What do you mean?"
So I did a little math for him. "How many people are there in the US that you think are making a decent living skateboarding?"
"Lots" he says.
"100?"
"Maybe not that high."
"Ok, but let's stick with 100 for now. How many skateboarders 16 or older do you think live in Colorado Springs?"
"Lots"
"100?"
"Probably a lot more."
"Well let's assume there are 100 people of working age here that skateboard. Let's also assume that there are at least two cities the size of Colorado Springs in each of the 50 states. That makes 10,000 people of working age that skateboard of which only 100 can make a living at it. That means that you have a 1% chance of making a living at skateboarding -- and really less than that since I was erring on the side of caution. In other words, out of all the people that are here that skateboard, only one will be good enough to make a living at it. While that one person could be you, the odds are against you -- have a backup plan."
After that conversation, he had this glazed look over his eyes. Not sure if I got my point across, but I tried.
|
|
Something else that was really tough for me as a teacher that no one told me about -- coming up with a name for my own children. "Curtis?" "Oh, please no -- anything but that name."
Funny story time.
I spent some time processing orders for a company that makes those creepy 'looks-like-your-kids' dolls. This was in the early 00's, so the Gen X kids were naming.
Examples of the horrors:
M'kayla (Which you'd think I'd like since it's pronounced like my name)
Ashleigh
Haleigh
Harleigh
John Thomas (Though the form said "John John Thomas"... I nearly fell out of my chair laughing)
|
|
Funny story time.
Nancy Drew was in my home room. She was black. One of the best students I ever had. One day I asked her if her parents knew what they were naming her. She said that she was supposed to be a boy. They had everything picked out -- names, clothes, etc. -- for a boy. When she came out a girl, mom looked around for "inspiration", saw "Nancy" on a magazine and named her on the spot.
But as a teacher, every name reminds you of someone. And when you teach 180 kids a year, it doesn't take long to fill up the list of potential names.
|
|
Examples of the horrors:
M'kayla (Which you'd think I'd like since it's pronounced like my name)
Ashleigh
Haleigh
Harleigh
John Thomas (Though the form said "John John Thomas"... I nearly fell out of my chair laughing)
One of the most popular names right now is "Nevaeh". Not only is it not really a name, people don't say the name as if it's a name. They don't say "This is my daughter Nevaeh". They say "This is my daughter Nevaeh, it's 'Heaven' spelled backwards". Any name that needs an explanation is not a good name.
|
|
Funny story time.Nancy Drew was in my home room. She was black. One of the best students I ever had. One day I asked her if her parents knew what they were naming her. She said that she was supposed to be a boy. They had everything picked out -- names, clothes, etc. -- for a boy. When she came out a girl, mom looked around for "inspiration", saw "Nancy" on a magazine and named her on the spot.
But as a teacher, every name reminds you of someone. And when you teach 180 kids a year, it doesn't take long to fill up the list of potential names.
The one thing I love about my job right now is the names that come across my screen. I've had customers with absurd names, long and complex names and I've even met my share of famous folk (including a former Food Network show host)
Quite possibly the best, IMO, is a person whose actual legal last name was "Zenon"
|
|
One of the most popular names right now is "Nevaeh". Not only is it not really a name, people don't say the name as if it's a name. They don't say "This is my daughter Nevaeh". They say "This is my daughter Nevaeh, it's 'Heaven' spelled backwards". Any name that needs an explanation is not a good name.Examples of the horrors:
M'kayla (Which you'd think I'd like since it's pronounced like my name)
Ashleigh
Haleigh
Harleigh
John Thomas (Though the form said "John John Thomas"... I nearly fell out of my chair laughing)
...
......
Ok, now that's just silly.
One of the most popular names right now is "Nevaeh". Not only is it not really a name, people don't say the name as if it's a name. They don't say "This is my daughter Nevaeh". They say "This is my daughter Nevaeh, it's 'Heaven' spelled backwards". Any name that needs an explanation is not a good name.
Ugh. That's as bad as the guy I heard about awhile back that was trying to convince the citizens of his town to answer their phones saying "heaven-o" because "hello" has the word "hell" in it...
|
|
Ugh. That's as bad as the guy I heard about awhile back that was trying to convince the citizens of his town to answer their phones saying "heaven-o" because "hello" has the word "hell" in it...
One of the most popular names right now is "Nevaeh". Not only is it not really a name, people don't say the name as if it's a name. They don't say "This is my daughter Nevaeh". They say "This is my daughter Nevaeh, it's 'Heaven' spelled backwards". Any name that needs an explanation is not a good name.
Heard about that one.
|
|
Ok, now that's just silly.
Possibly -- however, according to Social Security it was the 34th most popular name last year and the 31st most popular name in '07. (It was also number 984 for people who can't seem to spell "heaven" backwards.)
|
|
At school, as we're trading name horrors, mine aren't forenames, but, well, I went o school with a Sherlock and a Holmes. For why this is a problem, look at the name attached to this post. Fortunately, we didn't have many classes in common.
Since we got way off topic anyway ...
People who are interested in studies on names should check out Freakonomics. (It's a good book to check out anyway.) One of the sections is the effect that names have on people. One study followed two kids where the father named them "Winner" and "Looser". Winner was anything but and Looser became a captain in law enforcement and shortened his name to "Lou".
The thing that bugs me is when people want their child to have a "youneek" spelling -- forever dooming that person to getting their name spelled wrong.
Examples of the horrors:
M'kayla (Which you'd think I'd like since it's pronounced like my name)
Ashleigh
Haleigh
Harleigh
John Thomas (Though the form said "John John Thomas"... I nearly fell out of my chair laughing)
A friend of mine who's a teacher has her own personal "aaaargh" name in one of her students: a hispanic boy whose legal name is actually apparently Saviour Ourson (last name here).
Another thing I've noticed may be a need for more male teachers.+1
I'm working on it... High School, Music with a minor in English.
It's generally when they're Democrats or the occasional moderate Republican edging to get endorsements from the teacher's union. In office though, they generally look at education as the first place to balance the budget. State lotteries were touted as means to fund state education. But once they were in place, the money that came in for education was more than matched by what was slashed out of New Jersey's education budget.
In many ways, there's no alternative to cutting education to balance the budget... aside from raising tax revenues and that's hardly politically correct these days.
Using Wisconsin as an example, the bulk of the state budget is made up of 3 things - primary education, university education, and support to municipalities. When we have to cut, it's hard to cut support for municipalities, they have too many mandates to cover on their own revenue sources. That leaves making most of the cuts from education. Lately, it's the university system that's been taking the most cuts because primary education is compulsory. The university, by comparison, is strictly voluntary and can raise tuition.
I'm not really arguing for home schools. I'm asking if mainstream schools as they exist today in almost all industrialized countries are really a model worth defending. Maybe we need to rethink them?
I think they are worth defending. Despite failures in a number of very serious cases, mainly in certain large cities, the current mainstream school system probably still serves more kids than it fails (the highest suggested rate of dropout is 1/3, but even that leaves twice as many finishing). That doesn't mean that we can't rethink exactly how it works, how it's structured. There may be models that will do better and the same model may not be appropriate absolutely everywhere.
|
|
It's generally when they're Democrats or the occasional moderate Republican edging to get endorsements from the teacher's union. In office though, they generally look at education as the first place to balance the budget. State lotteries were touted as means to fund state education. But once they were in place, the money that came in for education was more than matched by what was slashed out of New Jersey's education budget.
About Teachers, yes they get a bad rep, but I suspect that it's more of an American attitude.And yet every politician of every party makes statements about how "We need to honor teachers" to great applause.
I feel compelled to point out that an appreciation for education is not really a conservative versus liberal issue. It is possible, even probable, that one can be a conservative republican and think that the education of children is a noble goal, necessary for the continuation of a strong nation.
What is disagreed upon perhaps is the best way in which to promote a better education. It is entirely possible to hold the simultaneous thoughts that good teachers should be honored and well paid, teachers unions should be abolished and that the NEA is unnecessary and unconstitutional. I'm not really wanting to debate these points - just point out that they are not self contradictory.
|
|
A friend of mine who's a teacher has her own personal "aaaargh" name in one of her students: a hispanic boy whose legal name is actually apparently Saviour Ourson (last name here).
Having grown up in a very densely Hispanic area, I know I can think of at least 4 kids in my school named "Jesus Cristo" *last name* 3 of them went by JC, one just went by his last name.
the waynesboro/charlottsville area is heavy counrty/ultra christian. So you see theirs something here for everybody.Srsly? My wife and I have a home in Cville and it's a big hippie town. Ultra-liberal academia.
Also I'm a NC native! Gamed for more than a decade in and around Fayetteville.
MMM well I guess my friends wound up in a wrong part of town then. Like I said I can only relate what was told to me from their side so your probabbly right.
I have no children at all let alone school age chidren so I will defer to your expertise as a local of the area.
Fayettville on the other hand is my stomping ground I know that place like the back of my hand and love it there. The gameing stores I went to were the dragons lair before it closed, then the hobbit but mostly I get my books from Ed McKays.
Were you there as a civilian or part of Ft. Bragg or Pope?
If you could guarantee that you could fire a teacher who was not doing the job then I would probably be with you in advocating paying them more. The problem with the current system is that the schools are forced to pay the bad teachers just as well as they pay the good teachers.Oh yes. I've always felt that was a SERIOUS problem with teaching and the whole union thing. What other job out there do you get paid more for doing mediocre to crap work? There is no incentive for a teacher to do more or do better or to even be a great teacher. They will still get paid based on time and what degree(s) they have. If there's no reward for doing well, why try harder?
It's cool to see someone from Colorado Springs here!
I'm not sure how long you've lived and taught here. I've lived here since I got stationed at Ft Carson in '87. The local suspicion of increasing funding for primary and secondary education is founded in experience. Back in the early '90's we approved quite a few increases in different districts. We were told teachers would be paid better, more teachers would be hired, class sizes would shrink, and things would get better. No matter how many times we voted for property tax bumps, bond issues, and mill levy increases the opposite of what was promised occurred. If we are going to have a crap education system why pay a lot more for it? We stepped up and voted them more money, and they screwed us. Outside of districts 12 and 20 I can't think of a school funding issue that has passed in ~8 to 10 years. The amount of spending per capita per annum is not the main driver in educational success. The system requires radical reform for funding increases to be relevant. I homeschooled my daughter for part of her secondary education, and she went to college at 17. We live in district 3, and she did OK in spite of it. There were some genuinely good dedicated teachers here, but those few teachers were peaks in a wasteland of intellectual apathy laziness and mediocrity. The system is simply failing.
Steve
I don't trust some lump of a teacher who is just shoving kids through an education system with my children (and it seems like a majority of them are from my experiences).
Having taught a few years at a public university while working on my graduate degree, education majors were pretty much near the bottom in every way possible, from blatantly obvious instances of academic dishonesty to comprehension of pretty much anything, and so on. That was not a big surprise at all, as I can count on only a single hand the number of high school teachers (not counting foreign language instructors, of course) whose apparent or expressed knowledge of the subject matched my own. I have absolutely zero faith in the public education system's ability to educate my child.
(I also have a seething hatred for all thing Piaget, blaming blind adherence to the defined age intervals for his developmental theory causing educators to flat out ignore above-average abilities in children, because "according to developmental theory, children shouldn't be able to do that yet. I'll blank it out of my mind and just pretend that kindergarten student over there is only *looking* at the newspaper and not actually reading it.")
What was surprising was how well the Design, Housing and Merchandising students performed, given they were denigrated for being part of the College of Human Environmental Sciences, which pretty much every other major referred to as "The College of Home Ec."
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
|
Having taught a few years at a public university while working on my graduate degree, education majors were pretty much near the bottom in every way possible, from blatantly obvious instances of academic dishonesty to comprehension of pretty much anything, and so on. That was not a big surprise at all, as I can count on only a single hand the number of high school teachers (not counting foreign language instructors, of course) whose apparent or expressed knowledge of the subject matched my own. I have absolutely zero faith in the public education system's ability to educate my child.
Perhaps the university you taught at doesn't have much in the way of an education program. In the thirteen years I've been teaching teachers, I've found most teacher-candidates to be either (1) diligent, clever, and slightly conservative with excellent study skills (the majority); or (2) intuitively brilliant, left-leaning, and with not so excellent study skills (a minority). (The latter can be a pain but they are fun to have in class discussions.)
(I also have a seething hatred for all thing Piaget, blaming blind adherence to the defined age intervals for his developmental theory causing educators to flat out ignore above-average abilities in children, because "according to developmental theory, children shouldn't be able to do that yet. I'll blank it out of my mind and just pretend that kindergarten student over there is only *looking* at the newspaper and not actually reading it.")
Most teacher candidates I know are highly suspicious of Piaget's stages of development and most professors of education are aware of challenges to developmental stages such as Vygotsky's.
What was surprising was how well the Design, Housing and Merchandising students performed, given they were denigrated for being part of the College of Human Environmental Sciences, which pretty much every other major referred to as "The College of Home Ec."
Maybe your teaching style appeals to these students. I'm sure the education students could identify modes of instruction that you used that appeal to different types of student (auditory learners, kinesthetic learners, and visual learners, etc.).
Don't be so quick to bash teachers. I agree that we should do more to reward quality in education and find ways to make teaching an attractive enough profession that people who have been successful in other fields will consider whether they have the qualities that would make a great teacher. However, other than being a bit too conservative, I find most teacher education students to be wonderful and dedicated.
|
|
I don't know about Canada but in the US when I was in college, it was my observation that college students that did not know what they wanted to study opted to either pursue business or teaching degrees because these were percieved to be the easiest diplomas to obtain. Thus, while there were some really excellent teaching students who were part of the program because they really wanted to be a teacher, there was a majority of them who were intellectually and academically lazy. Likewise, there were a good many teachers in my High School who I thought were there mainly because they thought it was an easy paycheck. Curiously, In Elementary and Middle School grades, I always got the exact opposite impression. Most of those teachers I always felt really wanted to teach me something.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
|
I don't know about Canada but in the US when I was in college, it was my observation that college students that did not know what they wanted to study opted to either pursue business or teaching degrees because these were percieved to be the easiest diplomas to obtain. Thus, while there were some really excellent teaching students who were part of the program because they really wanted to be a teacher, there was a majority of them who were intellectually and academically lazy. Likewise, there were a good many teachers in my High School who I thought were there mainly because they thought it was an easy paycheck. Curiously, In Elementary and Middle School grades, I always got the exact opposite impression. Most of those teachers I always felt really wanted to teach me something.
I'm not sure about the US, but the faculties of education I've worked in require a lot from their students. In fact, a lot of students who come into education after having done a BA in another discipline find it challenging.
It may be less rigorously theoretical than other disciplines in the humanities but the workload is heavier with many more smaller assignments. The assumption is that learning is a process and writing two or three big essays (as many other areas of the humanities ask you to do) doesn't reflect the slow, deliberate, reflective nature of the process. On top of these numerous smaller assignments, students of education have to spend time in their practicum where they do practice teaching. This is very time consuming and yet requires them to be at their best.
Most of the students I see in enrolled in education courses aren't there for an easy paycheck but they do like the idea of a paycheck; they see their degree as leading to employment in a way that an English BA or a Cultural Studies BA might not so clearly do. (Most of them will not actually find employment as teachers.) More than anything though, students in education seem to be people who liked school. I think we should be highly suspicious of people who enjoyed high school but that's just me.