Magic Items Creation Question

[shea83]

Hi, I've a question about costs of magic items with "restrictions".
Following rules for example a Belt of Giant Strength +4, which cost is 16,000gp, should cost 8,000gp of raw materials for crafting.
In the rules about magic items creation it says that some "restrictions" can lower the price of the item:
FROM THE CORE BOOK:
Item Requires Skill to Use: Some items require a specific skill
to get them to function. This factor should reduce the cost
about 10%.
Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use: Even more
restrictive than requiring a skill, this limitation cuts the price
by 30%.
Prices presented in the magic item descriptions (the gold
piece value following the item’s slot) are the market value, which
is generally twice what it costs the creator to make the item.

So, technically, if i would create a Belt of Giant Strength restricted for "class fighter" or "alignment CN" should cost me:
(16,000 / 2) - 30% = 5,600gp instead of 8,000gp.
Is it right ?

[meabolex]

shea83 wrote:

So, technically, if i would create a Belt of Giant Strength restricted for "class fighter" or "alignment CN" should cost me:

(16,000 / 2) - 30% = 5,600gp instead of 8,000gp.
Is it right ?

The magic item creation rules are more DM guidelines than hard and fast rules. In this case, the item already exists (Belt of Giant Strength) and is priced in the magic items section, so it seems from a balance standpoint for a DM to not allow altering the price of the item. The DM *can* allow it, but it's extremely questionable to allow a "random" cost reduction that mechanically won't have any effect other than saving you some gold.

The situations where this guideline should be used is when you're creating an item that doesn't exist and thematically it makes sense for it to have such a restriction.

[Draeke Raefel]

Also if said item were being created specifically for the purpose of selling it, I believe it should be allowed. However, if you are trying to make it cost less to make a belt of Giant Strength for the party fighter, it should definitely not get the discount as the restriction doesn't really effect it's intended use. Those rules are not supposed to be used to allow you to circumvent normal item cost.

[shea83]

Thanks for answering :)
So if i'm about to create a new item not listed like mhmm a "vest of hide&protection" with some powers like invisibility on command word, shield & magic armor permanent on it (so a brand new magic item)could I be able to create restricted for "wizard" class and "spellcraft 15ranks" as requirements for lowering its craft price ?

[Draeke Raefel]

That is completely up to your gm. The problem comes when you are trying to build an item for yourself so that the restrictions don't come into play. If I were GMing I would be very hard to convince that you should get the discount. The discount in base market value occurs because the potential market for buyers is decreased by the restriction, not because it is easier or less expensive to make an item with a restriction placed on it. In fact, from an effort point of view, it is another effect you are adding to the item. I am not sure that it was meant to be factored in when determining the creation cost of the item, only the market value( which the book states is generally twice the cost to create the item ).

So, in short, I think the restriction discount on market value was purely their to reflect the decrease in possible consumers who would buy the item and not presented as a mechanism to change the creation cost of a magic item.

EDIT: If one of the devs wants to correct me, I am cool with that too... It would make my crafter wizard a bit more productive :)

[meabolex]

shea83 wrote:

Thanks for answering :)

So if i'm about to create a new item not listed like mhmm a "vest of hide&protection" with some powers like invisibility on command word, shield & magic armor permanent on it (so a brand new magic item)could I be able to create restricted for "wizard" class and "spellcraft 15ranks" as requirements for lowering its craft price ?

I can see the creation of a wizard's robe -- but why the spellcraft? I could see a spellcraft requirement if there was something that uses spellcraft as part of the item.

A good starting point for the creation of items is to look at already existing items.

There are already a ring of invisibility and bracers of armor. There has been discussion on these boards as to what permanent shield would cost, but it's generally in the range of 35k.

35,000gp -- most expensive ability (shield)
+
16,000gp * 75% (12,000 gp) -- multiple similar bonuses (mage armor)
+
20,000gp + 50% (30,000 gp) -- separate ability added on an item (invisibility)
*
70% -- 30% reduction in cost for being wizard only

Which comes to about 54k market price and 27k crafting cost (prereqs shield, mage armor, invisibility, creator must be a wizard)

[Draeke Raefel]

I don't think shield and mage armor should count as multiple similar abilities. They both add to armor, but one provides an armor bonus and one provides a deflection bonus. I think that is more for +5 to spellcraft/+5 to Knowledge( Arcana ) item.

[shea83]

Ok, it's totally reasonable that a "crafter" can't break game with ludicrous tricks for powerplaying.
Now i have a last (i hope) question about what meabolex said:
"permanent shield is considered about 35k"

Analyzing corebook i read :
SPELL EFFECT: use-activation or CONTINUOUS -> spell level x caster level x 2000gp.
One of the notes at the bottoms says:If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of
the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.

So, being Shield a 1°lvl spell, with duration of 1minute:

1 x 1 (using lower caster level possible) x 2000gp x 2(spell is 1minute/level) = 4,000gp

what's wrong in my reasoning? need help ^_^

[Sigurd]

Typically, I will allow magic items to be made less expensively if they are made with, game available, better ingredients. So if you wanted to make a belt of Giant Strength and you had plans to find and kill a particular Giant, there would likely be a game compatible way to make it so.

Other things my players have done is get help from famous item makers or have patrons sponsor them for a portion of their magic Item price.

In general I agree with Draeke. If you are making an item for a fighter that can only be used by fighters that is actually an advantage not a limitation. The item is less appealing to steal. If you can tune an item to only one person that would be a huge safety feature for that person.

shea83 - There is as much to learn from the games premade items as the rules of creation. I generally defer to the premade items and point to them when the final arbiter of item price is power and appeal. The prices that don't make sense have generally been adjusted for game balance. They demonstrate the limitations of the creation rules.

The real achievement of the rule is to make character improvement challenging and have fun. Monty Haul characters don't face the same level of challenge and I don't think they are much fun.

S

[meabolex]

Draeke Raefel wrote:

I don't think shield and mage armor should count as multiple similar abilities. They both add to armor, but one provides an armor bonus and one provides a deflection bonus. I think that is more for +5 to spellcraft/+5 to Knowledge( Arcana ) item.

One bonus is a shield bonus and one is an armor bonus. But I get what you're saying.

Then the difference is 25% of 16k, or 4k increase before the class-specific restriction. The final balance would go to 56.7k or a difference of 2.7k.