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I been playing DDO the past few weeks and I notice that with solo play consideration melee combat has a few alterations to what we know in the PnP equivilent.
It got me thinking though, would it be thesible to have an iterative attack at level 1?
The Attack would be with your primary weapon at -5 and usable only as a full round action. This would ideally provide a fighter using sword and shield a reason to use the full attack action (which atm he has no reason to use until he gets iterative attacks unless hes using his shield as an offhand weapon)
Some considerations for balance that I can see first off. Additional attacks like this could have a huge impact on monsters, and the bogging down it would produce with the DMs dice rolls, so first rule I considered is that it only applies to the 11 core classes. NPC classes do not gain this extra attack neither do monsters (unless they have class levels).
Second thought was the impact this would have on TWF / Sword n Shield / 2 Handed. Simple enough to solve, if your using TWF you lose your iterative attack in favor of an offhand attack until your BAB is +5 (at which point you gain interative attacks as normal). 2 Handers can only use the interative attack against another opponent in range, much like how cleave works, this is considered a glancing blow and does Str X 1.
I think its certainly worth playtesting this to see how it works in play - it does appear at first to boost the melee strength over casters at lower levels. I dont know how it would affect higher end play given the fact that as monsters AC climbs so too does the chance of those iterative attacks missing, however a chance at hitting is still better than no chance at all.
If anyone else see any glaring problems with this idea please post and discuss :)
So..
Correct me if my paraphrase is wrong:
You want to give sword and board fighters a boost in such a fashion as to be sure not to provide a boost to anyone else?
(no monsters, no casters, no rogues, no 2h'ers, etc.).
Why not just write a rule to give a damage boost to sword and board fighters?
Maybe a feat that requires you to wield a shield as a preq?
I'm terrible at writing non-abusable rules.. but.
"in any round a character wields a one handed weapon and a shield while not attacking with the shield, the character who uses a full attack action recieves a damage bonus of (x) to the first successful melee attack made"
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just insert requirements as necessary.
(i.e. maybe all martial weps, and BAB+1 and shield prof, or whatever).
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It doesnt just affect sword and shield although those will be the most common "fighters" to benefit from it.
It would also benefit that rogue carrying a lantern for the party, the mage lugging his spellbook around, the cleric brandishing a holy symbol and his deities weapon in the other, the bard carrying his instrument, or the sorcerer carrying a wand.
There is also the glancing blow addition for two handed weapon fighters.
I think your comment does carry some weight though as it does seem to take the shine away from TWF which does require a feat and light weapon restriction to be better than this extra iterative attack.
Also i didnt look at ranged combat either...
Technically only full BAB classes would bet an iterative attack with throwing weapons at 1st level since until then drawing a weapon requires a move action until your BAB is +1 and using your full BAB with throwing weapons requires Quickdraw.
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I must admit the more I consider this the more complex I seem to be making it. So how about this cut down version...
Iterative attacks. All classes get an iterative attack at a -5 penalty with their primary weapon. this attack is considered a glancing attack and does minimum damage if it hits and cannot threaten a critical. When a characters BAB is +6 the restrictions are lifted...
The BAB progression would then look something like this for a fighter
+0/-5*
+1/-4*
+2/-3*
+3/-2*
+4/-1*
+5/-0*
+6/+1
+7/+2
+8/+3
+9/+4
+10/+5
+11/+6/+1
...
* Secondary Attack deals minimum damage and does not threaten a critical.
This would then benefit all attack types.
Quijenoth
That doesn't sound that bad to me.
As I understand it Trailblazer (I am thinking this is where your getting it from) itterive attacks allow for two attacks at certain levels and minus are taken away but they only ever allow for two attacks.
So what you are suggesting rather than getting them as a standard action you get a benfit for full round attacking.
This seems fine if your intend to use iterative attacks later and everyone is aware of the effect on the game.
Why no third iterative attack at +5/+0/-5 or +6/+1/-5 ??
I don't think the concept in the OP is a bad idea, but as a fighter, from L1 through L5, I'm looking forward to L6 and my BAB increasing to gain that iterative attack.
Granted, I'd get it from L1 now, but it'd suck to have to wait until L10 or L11 to get the third attack.
And I'm a whiner.
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Much better write-up, mirror. I would not have any prereqs on it. If you buy it you can try it.
I would make a modification that it is part of a full-round attack action, among a few other tweaks:Desperate Strike
As part of a full-round attack action, you can make one extra attack in melee combat. This attack is at a -5 penalty and you may not apply extra damage from strength, feats, or class abilities to this attack. Precision-based damage (sneak attack) and special attacks (stunning fist) or combat maneuvers are not also not applicable. Otherwise, the attack is resolved as normal.
The only problem I see with it being a feat is that unless you specifically mentioned it, you couldnt use this feat with other combat feats as part of a full attack action. So characters using two weapons can either use TWF for an extra offhand attack or use desperate strike for an extra main hand attack. they couldnt use both for 3 attacks.
This would put the power selection back on the emphasis of the fighter (due to extra feats) which is fine but its not exactly the effect I was looking for.
My intent is to increase the overall actions of players at low levels (hence why I didnt increase the extra attacks beyond 6th level) so that players feel they are contributing to the game more round by round. It also increases the parties survival at low levels allowing for more oppoenents to be felled per round without taking just as many attacks back taking the ratio to 2/1 in the parties favor.
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I also considered the effects on mages and this would put an emphasis back on the weapon wielder over the spell slinger. For this I considered adding in the following feat.
Arcane Volley.
Requirement: Ability to cast Cantrips
Benefit: As a full round action you can cast a single cantrip that uses an attack roll (acid splash, disrupt undead, ray of frost, or touch of fatigue) at your full base attack bonus granting you a second attack in a single round. The cantrip used applies to all attacks in the round, you cannot cast a different cantrip in the same round (a wizard casting ray of frost cannot use acid splash on his iterative attack). Treat this extra attack in all respects as other iterative attacks (-5 to hit, minimum damage, cannot confirm criticals, etc).
Special: You may select this feat as one of your bonus feats from arcane spellcasting levels.
Again though, I'm considering giving this feat to wizards and sorcerers for free at 1st level, or simply including it into the description of cantrips.
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I would change Arcane Volley to "Magical Volley" (no reason to exclude divine casters from the same trick). I also wouldnt give it to them for free. Alternately, you could make it a trait instead.
The only problem there is that Clerics and Druids dont get any Orisons that use an attack roll. Even bards luck out with this ability. I suppose in future products some kind of 0 level attack spell might appear for them though and I dont really want to open up this to non-attack spells, that could open up a whole host of abusive issues.
It would be cool to allow a wizard or sorcerer to apply this ability to wands that store cantrips too.
I spoke to one of my players about this today and he also thought about using the trait system since they dont really fill the feat roll well while being perhaps a little too powerful to include as a standard rule.
I suppose if you lifted the restrictions on the iterative attacks and allowed arcane casters to gain iterative attacks with higher level spells you could make them viable for the feat cost. The latter would probably be a metamagic feat at which point your entering the realm of 3.5 feats like twin spell.
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Yeah that could certainly work.
As a side note, if it remained a feat or rule, do you think this ability should be opened up to include school/bloodline power attack spells?
This affects acid dart, acidic ray, blinding ray, corrupting touch, dazing touch, elemental ray, force missile, grave touch, heavenly fire, laughing touch, telekinetic fist and hand of the apprentice.
I hadn't noticed before but the claw attack powers actually do let a sorcerer attack with both as a full attack action without any penalties!