Ok,
I got a player in my game that wants to do Tattoo magic. Basically, allowing him to create slotless wands or items. So, I was thinking of the following, am I making it too hard or to good or useless or just right?
Craft Tattoo
This crafting feat allows the spellcaster to craft magic directly into a subject by creating a tattoo on the subject and casting magic into it during the crafting. The exotic materials used for this are extremely rare and therefore, expensive. However, a tattoo does not take up an equipment slot.
Prerequisites
Craft (Drawing) : 10 ranks
Spellcaster Level : 12
Benefit
The spellcaster can craft any wand into a tattoo on the targets body. This tattoo is, in all regards, exactly the same as a wand, except that only the recipient of the tattoo can activate it. The recipient does not need to make a use magic device check to activate the tattoo's spell. It fallows all other rules for wands (extra costs for GP requirements in the spell, number of uses, etc). Crafting a Tattoo costs twice as much as crafting a wand of the same type. It also takes up space on the recipients body based on the level of the spell, and different locations of the body can only accept differing amounts of spells as per the chart below. The maximum level of spell the crafter can craft into a tattoo is 1 for a 12th level caster. Each additional 2 caster levels increases this limit by 1. Treat a 0 level spell as a half-level spell (thus two 0 level spells could be tattoo'd to each hand).
Levels per Body part
Head : 2 levels
Hand : 1 level
Arm : 2 levels
Leg : 3 levels
Torso : 4 levels (Front or Back)
To activate a tattoo, the recipient touches the tattoo (a swift action if the tattoo is exposed, a move equivalent action if the tattoo is concealed by clothing, if the tattoo is concealed by armor, it cannot be activated) and wills it activated. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity. When all the charges in a tattoo are used, it will immediately lose all color, turning a wane washed out grey that fades over a number of days equal to the level of spell contained within. Once it is fully faded, a new tattoo can be put in it's place.
Alternately, the caster may craft a tattoo that duplicates the effects of an item. When using the feat in this way, the tattoo fills in the area of the body that the item would normally be worn on (boots and belts take up the legs, rings or gloves take up the hands, bracers take up the arms, a cloak or robe takes up the torso, and amulets, helms or headbands take up the head), allowing no other tattoo's to be placed there. Multiply the base cost of the item by 2 to reflect the difficulty and expensive materials needed. Note that this will change the minimum caster level of most items, as the caster must still meet the level to cast the spell into a tattoo. For example, if the item requires a 2nd level spell, the caster must be CL 14 at minimum, and this is the minimum CL the tattoo can be created as.
I think the slotting is okay, but I personally despise feat bloat for crafting feats. Why don't you just rule that tattoos can be enchanted the same as any other items and use the regular item crafting feats to grant them? If he's a caster, he just takes Craft Wand, and if he's not a caster, he probably shouldn't be taking a feat that's basically Craft Wand in a new box. Unless you're okay with Magical Artisan expanding what it grants access to.
I think the slotting is okay, but I personally despise feat bloat for crafting feats. Why don't you just rule that tattoos can be enchanted the same as any other items and use the regular item crafting feats to grant them? If he's a caster, he just takes Craft Wand, and if he's not a caster, he probably shouldn't be taking a feat that's basically Craft Wand in a new box. Unless you're okay with Magical Artisan expanding what it grants access to.
Well,
I don't like expanding crafting feats either, but, I also don't like the idea of lower level casters being able to create slotless bonus's on people either. I thought this was a good compromise, it's one more feat, but it keeps it out of the hands of lower level characters. I guess to me it's a balance thing more than anything else.
During the conversion, my PFS character found out she liked to tattoo. Granted they aren't magic tattoo, but I had her take ranks in Craft: Tattoo. I think having the character take ranks in a related craft skill would work out better than having to take two crafting feats.
Well, didn't say they had to have Craft Wand, just be a spellcaster 12. So they could only make tattoo's. I just wanted to limit them to level 4 spells or replication of equipment. And honestly, that's another reason to make it a feat. To do both of those would require Craft Wonderous Items and Craft Wands. This one feat let's you do both of those but only in a limited way, with the tattoo's. I would probably also let someone with both those feats make the tattoo's following the same rules (CL 12, 10 Ranks in Craft (Drawing) or Craft (Tattoo's))
I think the slotting is okay, but I personally despise feat bloat for crafting feats. Why don't you just rule that tattoos can be enchanted the same as any other items and use the regular item crafting feats to grant them? If he's a caster, he just takes Craft Wand, and if he's not a caster, he probably shouldn't be taking a feat that's basically Craft Wand in a new box. Unless you're okay with Magical Artisan expanding what it grants access to.Well,
I don't like expanding crafting feats either, but, I also don't like the idea of lower level casters being able to create slotless bonus's on people either. I thought this was a good compromise, it's one more feat, but it keeps it out of the hands of lower level characters. I guess to me it's a balance thing more than anything else.
Honestly, I think you're making it needlessly complicated. Except possibly for pricing, Craft Wondrous Item will already do everything that you want.
If the character wishing to make the magical tats is not a spellcaster, have him take Magical Artisan to grant access and have him take the Craft Drawing skill as part of it along with Craft Wondrous Item. If he is a caster, let him a little Craft Drawing if he likes for flavor, but just have him go with Craft Wondrous Item.
Enchanting a tat is pretty much the same as enchanting any other wondrous item, including the costs. Rather than a complicated and possibly broken mechanic to give a person the ability to use a wand without Use Magic Device, just follow the pricing of a Chime of Opening vs. a Wand of Knock. Any wand can be turned into an item of the same nature, and if it's a Tattoo of a Key instead of a Chime of Opening, what difference does it make?
The possible trouble of slotted vs. unslotted is also taken care of pretty neatly. If someone wants an unslotted tattoo, it costs twice the price of a slotted one.
Let's say someone wants a tattoo of wings on his back which he can turn into real wings when he wants. It's a cool effect, but no need to not use the pricing for Wings of Flying, since that's what the wing tat counts as. It also uses the Cloak slot, so if the guy with the wings tat suddenly wanted to wear some magic cloak too, he could go back to the original artist, pay him the same amount of money again (doubling the price for unslotted, as per the rules) and have the artist add some extra embellishment to the old tat, which now works the same way, but doesn't interfere with the wearing of cloaks, since the wings are now unslotted.
Basically, the tat is just an alternate media, and not even that alternate because Craft Wondrous Item can basically do everything that's not a weapon or maybe a rod. Tats can't be stolen which is a positive but they also can't be easily swapped out, which is a negative, so it basically evens out.
|
Honestly, I think you're making it needlessly complicated. Except possibly for pricing, Craft Wondrous Item will already do everything that you want.
Same deal for the other feats, really. A one-shot tattoo could be made with Brew Potion. A one-shot tattoo that only works for someone who has the spell on their spell list could be made with Scribe Scroll. The advantages of having the 'potion' or 'scroll' inked on your body instead of put in a bottle or on a slip of paper would be mitigated by the limitation of being unable to give the potion to a friend, or sell the scroll.
If you Craft Wondrous Item to make patterns on your hands that give you an enhancement bonus to Dexterity, you can just pay the price for Gloves of Dexterity +X. Advantage over gloves? You can't lose them. Disadvantage over gloves? You can't take them off to put on other gloves, or sell them, or loan them to your buddy.
IMO, 'Brew Potion' should cover any sort of expendable spell items, including little origami paperfoldings that you unfold to release the magic, or tiny clay faences that you shatter at your feet to unleash their effect, and 'Scribe Scroll' should cover any sort of expendable spell item that can only be used by someone with the spell on their spell list, including, just to be utterly contrary and confusing, special elixirs that, when imbibed, allow the drinker to cast that spell as if he'd prepared it that day, making a 'scroll' out of a 'potion.'
Instead of filling up books with feats and PrC abilities like 'Gem Magic' and 'Candle Casting,' I just allow anyone who takes one of these feats to designate what sort of item they craft and how it is used. We've used that since 2nd edition, back in Al-Qadim, when the Complete Sha'ir's Handbook have people who weave spells into silk patterns and then tear them to unleash the spells, while other magicians would tinker up little clockwork devices to unleash magical effects. We called them Craftsmages, and made up a custom Kit with some annoying three-layed matrix of cost vs. time to prepare vs. time to cast to try and balance out the differences (since a gem magic was spending more money, while a clockwork mage was taking more time, and a paperfolder had to instead be required to craft their spells on the fly, since their preparation time / equipment costs were so much cheaper than the others).
For 3E, the introduction of crafting feats just meant the concept got moved over to crafting. So Fang-Liu's 'potions' are sticks of incense that he prepares and lights and Siobhannon's 'scrolls' are rune-engraved stones that only unleash their magic for someone who knows the runic spell engraved upon it, tracing it with their finger while speaking in dwarvish to coax the magic out.
It's all the same, mechanically. Just flavor, for the most part. Nothing worth blowing a Feat on, or taking the Blood Magus or Candle Caster PrC for.
Why not just follow the same rules for slotless items / no space limitation?
Create the item as normal, then multiply the cost by 2. It is basically how Ioun Stones are done.
Given the breadth of many of the craft skills, I could see expanding that to Craft: Body Modification (including piercings, branding, scarification, tattooing). Look at everything a weaponsmith or blacksmith or carpenter can make.
-Weylin
"No, a magical ring will NOT work if it is dangling from your nose! I don't care if you are playing a minotaur."
Ok Ok,
I yield. :)
So, how about this then. No special feat, but just the existing ones? I guess even limiting the tattoo's to reasonableness would be handled by the monetary cost involved. I think everyone is in agreement that if the tattoo does not take up a slot then it costs 2X normal. And if it takes up a slot, then Normal cost for item it is replacing?
I am going to require a craft check for it. In my games anything magical is considered a Mastercraft item (it makes no sense to me to require Mastercraft on weapons and armor but not on wonderous items). It's not hard to make a mastercraft item (DC 20 in the appropriate craft, so wands are Woodworking (DC20), Gloves are Leatherworking (DC 20) or Armorsmithinng (20), I'm pretty flexible, as long as the craft you have is reasonable, I don't allow Basketweaving for making Weapons or Horseshoes, but I might allow it for bamboo armor, if you're weaving strips of bamboo). So, any approprite craft check DC 20 to make the tattoo's, could be Drawing or Body Modification or Tattoo's.
Ok Ok,
I yield. :)
You may yield, but I don't. (Threats of oozes not withstanding).
I'm the one who had the bright idea about the magic tattoo.
I've read over the thread and realized that people are looking at it as jaded players who have seen it all and read all the books.
Instead of looking at it from a player perspective, look at it from the character's perspective. It is a new discovery that hasn't be spread all around the multi-verse as yet.
Craft Wands, Craft Staff, and Craft Rods could all be made the same feat as well, but common thought is that they don't have enough similarities to be put under one feat.
Wayyyyy back in the days of yore, the World Tree was young, and the great god Gygax was yet a minor god (aka AD&D 1st edition), every single magic item had to be researched seperately. Even if you made the same item multiple times, you had to research it each time. Also, making the items took a physical toll on you (-2 CON).
Things got a bit better in later years (AD&D 2nd Edition) and you didn't have to research the item each time, but it still took that physical toll on the crafter which still made it difficult to craft.
Due to a world shaking discovery (3.0 and 3.5) it was discovered that many magic items had, despite thoughts to the contrary, many similarities when it came to being enchanted. These rules were codified into the specific areas of training we have now (Crafting Feats), though it still took a toll on the wizard (XP loss).
Yet another breakthrough has made it even easier to make various magic items (gold cost only). It hasn't been this easy to make magic items since the golden age of magic. (After all, all those magic items that people found in AD&D 1st Edition had to come from somewhere.)
The art of crafting tattoos capable of storing magic and the art of enchanting them (Craft Magic Tattooo) is in its infancy. Currently, to properly infuse the tattoo with the magic, the wizard has to create the tattoo himself over a period of days. The inks need to be carefully crafted (Craft Alchemy), but they don't have to be made by the wizard, but they are expensive.
It took someone with the training (Craft Drawing and being a wizard) and the curiousity to realize that it was possible and to experiment and research how to do it.
There are enough similarities with the other enchanting methods that it doesn't take a physical toll on the wizard, but not enough similarities have been found to tie it into the other areas of training.
Obviously, this is all from a roleplaying point of view and my opinion.
From a roleplaying point of view, Master Helzeburne makes knots in a length of cord, Lady Gwyntalianion prepares magic fruits and enchanted vegetables, Su-Kim-Hee folds these complicated little paper things, and Mbhoso the Wise pokes people with a branding iron that leaves beautiful raised scars. From a mechanics perspective, all four mages have Brew Potion, even if none of the items they make look like traditional potions or are made with Craft Alchemy. If they later got Craft Wondrous Item or Forge Ring, they could make items that looked similar to their "potions" but were created using different feats. And while Su-Kim-Hee and Mbhoso the Wise might at first look at each other's origami sculptures or raised scars as strange foreign magic, once they did a Detect Magic and Spellcraft, they'd realize they were just looking at a "potion" made with a different media and different Craft skill. And if they found a traditional potion in a traditional potion flask, they'd eventually figured out that some strange ancient mage used Craft Alchemy to the same ends that normal mages would use Craft Origami or Craft Scarification.
And Master Helzeburne the master of magical knots can easily have ranks in Candle Caster without ever touching a candle. He instead knots magical knots that release their magic in the same manner as they unravel. Or he could mix them with gunpowder and have them be fuses. Or he could use them as wicks of candles if he so pleased, where the candle is completely unmagical but the wick on the other hand is.
Swapping in one craft for another is simple. Unless a new item creation feat actually provides a significant new mechanic, I don't see any reason to use it.
Craft Talisman is just Brew Potion with different media. Easier to just consider them the same feat and let characters with them make both forms if they feel like it.
Hmmm,
Ok, what would you all say about a 3 level prestige class to handle this? Before you all howl, let me flesh it out a bit :
Mystic Tattooist
Requirements
Craft (Draw or Art) : 5 ranks
Spellcasting : Ability to cast 1st level spells
The tattooist is a specialist in the merging of magic with living organisms. This merging is done through the use of applying magically active inks (Craft Alchemy, DC 20) to a living body and then binding a spell within.
BAB : Poor
Saves : Fortitude & Reflex (Poor), Will (Good)
Spellcasting : At each level, gain one additional level of spells known/prepareable/castable as if you gained a level in the spellcasting class used to qualify for this class. If you had more than one spellcasting class that qualified you for this class, choose only one to advance in. You may add your levels in Mystic Tattooist to this class for calculating Caster Level, familiar level, and all other level dependent benefits except specific class features (such as additional uses of wild shape per day). A cleric could gain additional domain spells and abilities, but not a class feat, in other words.
Tattoo Crafting : At 1st level, the Mystic Tattooist can use any Craft Feat they have to create an equivalent effect as a tattoo on the body of the target. When duplicating effects, they are considered slotless by default and cost 2X the normal price of creating the item normally. The Mystic Tattooist may, instead, assign a tattoo to a body 'slot' and pay only normal price for the enchantment. Crafting a tattoo requires a Crafting (Art or Tattoo) check equal to 15 + 2X the level of the spell used in crafting the item. Weapon and Armor enhancement bonus's can only be applied to Natural Weapons and Natural Armor, and use a DC of 15 + 1/2 the Caster Level required for the enhancement. As normal, DC can be voluntarily increased to speed up crafting.
Glorious Tattoo : At 2nd level, the Mystic Tattooist becomes a master of making vibrant living tattoos. The Mystic Tattooist may incorporate movement into the tattoos when they are active at no increase in price or DC. Additionally, the Mystic Tattooist may reduce the GP cost of a tattoo by 5% plus 5% per level in Mystic Tattooist.
Resplendant Tattoo : At 3rd level, the Mystic Tattooist masters the art of magic tattoos. All tattoo's created by the Mystic Tattooist are considered masterwork (magical or not), and the Mystic Tattooist may incorporate movement into non-magical tattoos while creating them. The Mystic Tattooist gains a +5 Competence bonus to all crafting checks to make tattoos, and may reduce the time required to make Mystic Tattoo's by 25%.
What I'd say is that you're taking effects that should be available to any mage anyway and packing them into a prestige class to keep them special and elite. And the prestige class's other effects are basically dumpy.
Having a tattoo move and look sparkly is entertaining, but is basically something that could be done with Prestidigitation because it has no effect beyond looking kewl. And having the tats be masterwork is mostly pointless because it's sort of assumed that they'd be to get enchantments on them to begin with.
If you want the process of putting magic on living flesh to be a little more exclusive, require Craft Graft in addition to the other crafting feats so you can do tattoos, scarification, or any other intriguing bits and bobs.
Once you've defined a magical tat as a graft for rule purposes, this explains why it can't just be picked up and used by someone else.
To make your tattoo magic prestige class sexy to players beyond the RP--and even enhancing the RP--I recommend the following rules:
1. Tattoo magic in general requires Craft Graft + Other Appropriate Item Crafting Feat + related skill. This explains why they can't just be ripped off.
2. Magical tats are generally a pain for the recipient, literally, because of all the time it takes to tattoo the flesh. It's hard to find customers.
3. Members of the Tattoo prestige class get a mechanical benefit from having their tattoos move around: If they have a slotted tattoo, they can move it to another appropriate spot. For example, the Head and Cloak slots are considered appropriate for Charisma enhancers. If the Tattoo mage had an eagle tattoo on his shoulders that gave him extra charisma, he could have the eagle fly to his cheek for the same effect, basically wearing the tattoo in a different slot. Unslotted tats can be worn anywhere, but the tattoo mage can still move them around as he likes.
4. At the next level of power, the tattoo mage can take a tattoo from his own body and let it flow onto a willing recipient to take an appropriate slot on their body. He may also remove a magical tat from a willing recipient, assuming he has space on his own. Note that corpses are not defined as willing, so he can take tats off the dead or put them on. The undead are fine, so long as they're willing, but not the merely dead.
5. At the final level of power, willing is no longer an issue. If he has someone grappled, incapacitated, etc. he can take their tats for himself. This includes dead bodies. He can also forcibly give others his tattoos, which might seem less than useful until you realize that sometimes there are cursed tattoos and someone has to wear them. Curses can also be disposed of by placing them onto corpses, and if the corpse has Gentle Repose on it, it won't decay and the tats will not be damaged.
The coupon-clipping powers for tat magic are fine, but they need to be coupled with some actual power.
|
|
You dont actually need a new feat to make magical tatoos. Master Craftsman feat covers that really.
Just need to figure out what the cost of one would be.
As someone mentioned upthread, standard magic item costs for tattoos that take up body slots, and x2 cost for items that don't take up item slots, makes sense (with scrolls and potions, etc. never taking up body slots, so they'd use standard prices).
There's the advantage of not being able to lose the item, and the disadvantage of never being able to sell, loan or trade the item, or allow an ally to 'drink your potion,' etc.
LOL
It appears no-one will be happy no matter what. :)
There are those who think it should have a mechanic because it's no in the base book, so they will not be happy using existing feats because it feels like cheese.
There are those who think it should use existing feats because it is not worth extra rules for.
So...
Everyone feel free to use whatever you wish in your games. I'll figure out exactly what to do in mine. :)
|
|
I think this rocks. I think it deserves its own crunch. I would change Craft: Drawing to Craft: Tattooing to reflect the unique differences between pencil/paper drawing and inking a person's body. Tattooing would allow for drawing on paper/pencil but not vice versa. My logic there is that if you've ever watched a tattoo artist work, they draw the art first on paper, then on the transfer to the body. This is just my heavily tattooed self speaking and you may disregard that.
Overall, I love this mechanic. I think it's well written and I really wouldn't change anything except as above.
It's balanced by the fact that armor prevents touching to activate. It's balanced by charges.
It's balanced by skill required.
+1
I think this rocks. I think it deserves its own crunch. I would change Craft: Drawing to Craft: Tattooing to reflect the unique differences between pencil/paper drawing and inking a person's body. Tattooing would allow for drawing on paper/pencil but not vice versa. My logic there is that if you've ever watched a tattoo artist work, they draw the art first on paper, then on the transfer to the body. This is just my heavily tattooed self speaking and you may disregard that.
Overall, I love this mechanic. I think it's well written and I really wouldn't change anything except as above.
It's balanced by the fact that armor prevents touching to activate. It's balanced by charges.
It's balanced by skill required.+1
Thanks. :)
After all the work, my player decided he was going to go with a summoner specialist... then changed his mind and went with a priest character.
LOL
I'm sure he'll change his mind again, but no more coming up with mechanics for him until he locks the character sheet in a safe. ;)
After all the work, my player decided he was going to go with a summoner specialist... then changed his mind and went with a priest character.
LOL
I'm sure he'll change his mind again, but no more coming up with mechanics for him until he locks the character sheet in a safe. ;)
I did not, I said that I'm CONSIDERING it.
I'm in character creation mode.
The only reason I dropped the tattoo stuff is because the character was ALWAYS going to be a Conjurer and the tattoos were an interest, not a requirement, and I needed the feats to get into the prestige class instead.
*shrug*
Just imagine what I'm going to come up with on the pain killers and stuff over the next week!
|
|
We added a broader skill in our group a while back to cover tattooing. Given the breadth of many of the craft skills actually have fairly wide application we added Craft: Body Modification (covers tattooing, piercing, scarification and branding). The githyanki i was playing in that campaign was rather proficient with it (one of his highest skills).
-Weylin
Huh, that actually sounds a lot like the stuff in Book of Erotic Fantasy. Very nifty stuff, IMO. I always liked those rules.
AH!!! The horrors!
Just imagine what I'm going to come up with on the pain killers and stuff over the next week!
You have no idea.
On a serious note though, everyone please wish QOShea the best of luck, he goes in for surgery this week to have his stint fixed so he can go back on Chemo again. :(
You have no idea.
On a serious note though, everyone please wish QOShea the best of luck, he goes in for surgery this week to have his stint fixed so he can go back on Chemo again. :(
Thanks for the kind wishes. I'm home, on vicodin, and contemplating a kobold rogue focusing on the hand crossbow.
"Do you feel lucky, punk? Do ya?"
|
|
You have no idea.
On a serious note though, everyone please wish QOShea the best of luck, he goes in for surgery this week to have his stint fixed so he can go back on Chemo again. :(
Thanks for the kind wishes. I'm home, on vicodin, and contemplating a kobold rogue focusing on the hand crossbow.
"Do you feel lucky, punk? Do ya?"
Best of luck and warm happiness. And best wishes for a speedy recovery.
As for the Kobold, well, I'm gonna be.... WAY over here.
Well, I was just about to start a lengthy post on almost this exact topic, but I see that somebody beat me to it. I have a Barbarian character that is ethnically half Shoanti, half Varisian. Both cultures having an affinity for tattoos, I thought it might be cool to take the Master Craftsman feat as a stepping stone toward making magical tattoos. I realize this thread is over a month old, and some of my questions and concerns have already been addressed, but I had some things to put my two cents in on if anyone is still paying attention.
My take was that magical tattoos were without a doubt Wondrous Items with the x2 "slotless" modification. As was said above, the mechanic is already there. My only concern on cost was the whole non-transferable/-saleable thing. Not being able to have them physically stolen or sundered is certainly a perk, but having that break even with not being able to sell or trade doesn't sit quite right. Maybe alleviate the cost to x1.75 or even x1.5? Does that seem too powerful?
I myself had some early concerns on game balance and the "cheese factor", but in the end I figure that as long as you get the final cost right, in-game money and time restrictions would be enough of a check on abuse.
I also had some thoughts on perhaps restricting magical tattoos along the lines "thematic appropriateness". Maybe this should just be an in-game roleplaying decision, but it occurred to me that maybe magic tattoos might only have powers that had a certain...physicality? For example, natural armor seems like a far more appropriate choice than just a straight up armor bonus, despite the fact that both bonuses are covered by Wondrous Items. Coming from the opposite direction, protective stuff like elemental resistance, or the powers of a Ring of Regeneration usually fall under different magic item types, but seem to follow that theme of physicality. Thoughts?