Girallon p. 154, skill point issue
If I use my last skill point for Climb, which is a class skill, I'll get 4 more to an already +11 for +15
SB says +14
skill points = 7
used = 6
Climb +11 = +0 ranks, +4 Str, +8 extra mods
Perception +11 = +4 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill, +3 extra mods
Stealth +5 = +3 ranks, +3 Dex, +3 class skill, -4 extra mods
Hell Hound p. 173, skill point issue
If I add the 4 points remaining and +3 class skill, Acrobatics becomes +12
SB says +8.
Everything else adds up
skill points = 16
used = 12
Acrobatics +5 = +0 ranks, +1 Dex, +4 extra mods
Perception +7 = +4 ranks, +0 Wis, +3 class skill
Stealth +13 = +4 ranks, +1 Dex, +3 class skill, +5 extra mods
Survival +7 = +4 ranks, +0 Wis, +3 class skill
Hell Hound, Nessian p. 173, skill point issue
Everything adds up but I have to use 4 points more than I have possible
skill points = 36
used = 40
Acrobatics +16 = +11 ranks, +2 Dex, +3 class skill
Perception +12 = +6 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill, +2 extra mods
Stealth +21 = +12 ranks, +2 Dex, +3 class skill, +4 extra mods
Survival +18 = +11 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill, +3 extra mods
chopswil wrote: Ghoul p. 146, HD mod question
A ghoul has no Con so how come +4 on its 2d8 hit dice?
Undead use their Cha as their hp mod ability, since they have no Con.
chopswil, in your last post, you're forgetting to account for armor check penalties, and you're using the (incorrect) 3.5 version of the Skill Focus feat.
In fact, you might want to go back and re-check all of your skill rank calculations for monsters that are wearing armor or benefiting from skill-related feats that work differently in Pathfinder. I suspect that accounts for some of the skill-related 'errors' you're finding.
Epic Meepo wrote: chopswil, in your last post, you're forgetting to account for armor check penalties, and you're using the (incorrect) 3.5 version of the Skill Focus feat.
In fact, you might want to go back and re-check all of your skill rank calculations for monsters that are wearing armor or benefiting from skill-related feats that work differently in Pathfinder. I suspect that accounts for some of the skill-related 'errors' you're finding.
Skill Focus +3 to skill, more than 10 ranks then +6
you're correct about forgetting the armor check penalties
Perception and Survival don't have those penalties
so -1 to Stealth and Acrobatics, which means I have to use more ranks to get to what is in the SB
and that makes it that I'm using 6 points more than I have possible
good catch
I do try to include those but most monster in the Bestiary don't wear armor
I don't have 3.5 books
Epic Meepo wrote: chopswil, in your last post, you're forgetting to account for armor check penalties, and you're using the (incorrect) 3.5 version of the Skill Focus feat.
In fact, you might want to go back and re-check all of your skill rank calculations for monsters that are wearing armor or benefiting from skill-related feats that work differently in Pathfinder. I suspect that accounts for some of the skill-related 'errors' you're finding.
if you're wondering about the Stealth math
Skill focus +3 Large -4 racial mod +5 = +4 extra mods
Actually, I was wondering about the Survival math, since the monster has 10+ ranks in Survival and Skill Focus (Survival), which should have resulted in a +6 extra mod to Survival.
Which, incidentally, is also a problem with the Survival math in the Bestiary entry unless Survival is a cross-class skill for some reason.
Epic Meepo wrote: Actually, I was wondering about the Survival math, since the monster has 10+ ranks in Survival and Skill Focus (Survival), which should have resulted in a +6 extra mod to Survival.
Which, incidentally, is also a problem with the Survival math in the Bestiary entry unless Survival is a cross-class skill for some reason.
This is the tricky part about working backwards, you can't take one skill in isolation.
Survival has 11 ranks from my math but only +3 due to Skill Focus so you would say Skill Focus should be +6 because it is over 10 ranks.
Then Survival would now be +21 and the SB says +18. Now I could take that 1 rank and use it elsewhere but it doesn't gain me much because the other math is many ranks off. Or I could take 2 ranks for use elsewhere, lose the +3 Skill Focus I just added and still not have +18.
Now I'm guessing how the ranks should be used and the final skill value.
I don't know what the skills values "should" be I just know the math isn't adding up for the values shown in the SB.
The skill should be redone from scratch.
I stopped and showed how I got to where I am.
Since I've said I can't make it add up I'd say all the skills need to be re-done. I show the math that takes me to the numbers shown in the Stat Block.
I try to suggest a possible error but it could be something I'm missing, a racial mod that isn't shown in the text (I found about these in Bestiary 2, not nice BTW) or ????
I would hope that since skills need to be looked at as a whole they would recalculate all of them.
Leech Swarm p.187, Stealth skill points off
SB says +1
forgot size mod or typo, dropped the "6"
skill points = 0 vermin
Stealth +16 = +0 ranks, +4 Dex, +12 Diminutive
Swim +12 = +0 ranks, 4 Dex, +8 extra mods
Lion p.193, unused skill point
everything adds up, 1 point left
skill points = 5
used = 4
Acrobatics +11 = +0 ranks, +3 Dex, +8 extra mods
Perception +9 = +2 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill, +3 extra mods
Stealth +8 = +2 ranks, +3 Dex, +3 class skill
Lion, Dire p.193, skill point issues
Acrobatics is supposed to be +11, but if I add1 rank then it is also a class skill so +4 for a total of +14 and then there would still be 1 point left.
skill points = 8
used = 6
Acrobatics +10 = +0 ranks, +2 Dex, +8 extra mods
Perception +11 = +4 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill, +3 extra mods
Stealth +7 = +2 ranks, +2 Dex, +3 class skill
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
I didn't see it anywhere in the thread, but I noticed the Oread on page 205 has a speed of 20 feet and wondered if it should be 30. The "Oread as a character" doesn't mentioned anything about a base speed reduction. Also, the Oread Fighter in the statblock is wearing leather armor and carrying ~25 lb of gear, so it doesn't look like an encumbrance or armor issue.
-Skeld
Mephit p.193, incorrect CMD
CMD = 10 + BAB + StrMod + DexMod + SizeMod + DodgeBonus
16 = 10 + 3 +1 +2 + -1 +1
SB says 15
Mimic p.205, skill point issues
To get Disguise to +10 I had to use more points than I had and the mimic only has 7 HD so it can't have 10 ranks.
skill points = 28
used = 31
Climb +14 = +7 ranks, +4 Str, +3 class skill
Disguise +10 = +10 ranks, +0 Cha
Knowledge (dungeoneering) +10 = +7 ranks, +0 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +14 = +7 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill, +3 extra mods
Naga, Spirit p.213, skill point issue
I had to use more points than I had available
skill points = 50
used = 52
Bluff +13 = +10 ranks, +3 Cha
Escape Artist +13 = +3 ranks, +5 Dex, +3 class skill, +2 extra mods
Intimidate +9 = +3 ranks, +3 Cha, +3 class skill
Knowledge (arcana) +14 = +10 ranks, +1 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +22 = +10 ranks, +3 Wis, +3 class skill, +6 extra mods
Spellcraft +11 = +7 ranks, +1 Int, +3 class skill
Stealth +15 = +9 ranks, +5 Dex, +3 class skill, -2 extra mods
Swim +12 = +0 ranks, +4 Str, +8 extra mods
Nightmare, Cauchemar p.216, skill point issue
unused skill points
skill points = 126
used = 122
Acrobatics +19 = +10 ranks, +2 Dex, +3 class skill, +4 extra mods
Bluff +18 = +14 ranks, +1 Cha, +3 class skill
Fly +19 = +14 ranks, +2 Dex, +3 class skill
Intimidate +18 = +14 ranks, +1 Cha, +3 class skill
Knowledge (arcana) +20 = +14 ranks, +3 Int, +3 class skill
Knowledge (planes) +20 = +14 ranks, +3 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +22 = +14 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill, +4 extra mods
Sense Motive +22 = +14 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill, +4 extra mods
Stealth +11 = +14 ranks, +2 Dex, +3 class skill, -8 extra mods
Oni, Ogre Mage p.221, possible skill point issue
it all adds up but only if you don't include the Armor check Penalty of -2 for chain shirt
skill points = 64
used = 64
Bluff +14 = +8 ranks, +3 Cha, +3 class skill
Disguise +14 = +8 ranks, +3 Cha, +3 class skill
Fly +5 = +0 ranks, +3 Dex, +2 extra mods
Intimidate +14 = +8 ranks, +3 Cha, +3 class skill
Knowledge (arcana) +13 = +8 ranks, +2 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +13 = +8 ranks, +2 Wis, +3 class skill
Sense Motive +13 = +8 ranks, +2 Wis, +3 class skill
Spellcraft +13 = +8 ranks, +2 Int, +3 class skill
Use Magic Device +14 = +8 ranks, +3 Cha, +3 class skill
Pegasus p.225, skill point issue
I had to use more points than possible, so Sense Motive has 6 ranks and Pegasus only has 4 HD.
skill points = 8
used = 11
Fly +5 = +2 ranks, +2 Dex, +3 class skill, -2 extra mods
Perception +11 = +3 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill, +4 extra mods
Sense Motive +7 = +6 ranks, +1 Wis
Rat Swarm p.225, unknown skill
no skill called Balance in Pathfinder, 3.5?
SB says "Skills Balance +6, Climb +10"
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
chopswil wrote: Rat Swarm p.225, unknown skill
no skill called Balance in Pathfinder, 3.5?
SB says "Skills Balance +6, Climb +10"
Balance is now one component of Acrobatics.
Spectre p.256, incorrect CMB
CMB = BAB + AbilityMod
9= 6 + 3 (Dex)
SB says +6
incorporeal uses Dex instead of Str for CMB, forgot Dex mod?
Tarrasque p.262, inconsistent verbiage
one of the two statements has an incorrect bonus for jumping
Skills Acrobatics +3 (+43 when jumping),
Rush (Ex) Once per minute for 1 round, the tarrasque can
move at a speed of 150 feet. This increases its Acrobatics
bonus on checks made to jump to +87.
Tiger p.265, missing "Ecology" Heading
Tiger, Dire p.265, skill point issue
Acrobatics +10 computed
SB says +6
forgot run feat mod?
skill points = 14
Acrobatics +10 = +0 ranks, +2 Dex, +4 run, +4 racial mod
Perception +12 = +5 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill, +3 extra mods
Stealth +15 = +7 ranks, +2 Dex, +3 class skill, +3 extra mods
Swim +13 = +2 ranks, +8 Str, +3 class skill
Treant p.266, unused skill points
skill points = 36
used = 32
Diplomacy +9 = +8 ranks, +1 Cha
Intimidate +9 = +8 ranks, +1 Cha
Knowledge (nature) +9 = +8 ranks, +1 Int
Perception +12 = +4 ranks, +3 Wis, +3 class skill, +2 extra mods
Sense Motive +9 = +4 ranks, +3 Wis, +2 extra mods
Stealth -9 = +0 ranks, -1 Dex, -8 extra mods
Will-o’-Wisp p.277, incorrect CMD
CMD = 10 + BAB + StrModUsed + DexMod + SizeMod + DodgeBonus + ACBonus
25 = 10 + 6 + -5 + 9 + -1 + 1 + 5 deflection
SB says 24
forgot dodge?
Wraith p.281, incorrect CMD
CMD = 10 + BAB + StrMod + DexMod + ACBonus
21 = 10 + 3 + 0+ 3 + 5 deflection
SB says 16
forgot deflection?
Xill p.283, skill points issue
used more points than available
skill points = 72
used = 74
Acrobatics +16 = +11 ranks, +4 Dex, +3 class skill, -2 Armor Check Penalty
Bluff +12 = +9 ranks, +0 Cha, +3 class skill
Intimidate +12 = +9 ranks, +0 Cha, +3 class skill
Knowledge (arcana) +14 = +9 ranks, +2 Int, +3 class skill
Knowledge (planes) +14 = +9 ranks, +2 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +13 = +9 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill
Sense Motive +13 = +9 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill
Stealth +14 = +9 ranks, +4 Dex, +3 class skill, -2 Armor Check Penalty
Xorn p.284, typo
SB says "Knowledge (dungeonering)+10"
dungeoneering has two "e"s not one.
Yeti p.287, typo
SB says "Ecoogy" should be "Ecology"
Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:
Although the errata addressed the Raven's fly skill, it's perception skill (+6) is calculated incorrectly:
Skills:
Fly +6 (+4 size, +2 Dex);
Perception +9 (1 rank, +3 class skill, +3 focus, +2 Wis);
Disclaimer: I'm working from the PRD as it is found on Paizo's website, as my bestiary is first printing and I do not own the PDF. As such, I'm only reviewing from the date the second printing went live onwards.
The Raven has been modified since this post was put in, but it looks like one error was fixed and others introduced. The raven no longer has the Skill Focus (Perception) feat, dropping its skill to:
Perception +6 (1 rank, +3 class skill, +2 Wis);
However, the listed value is different in the two places it appears. In the stat block preamble, it is correctly listed as +6. However in the Statistics section it is listed as +3.
chopswil wrote: Satyr p. 241, incorrect CMD
CMD = 10 + BAB + StrModUsed + DexMod + DodgeBonus
19 = 10 + 4 + 2 + 2 + 1
SB says CMD 18
missing dodge?
I agree.
chopswil wrote: Dryad p. 116, unused skill points
skill points = 48
used = 42
Climb +9 = +6 ranks, +0 Str, +3 class skill
Craft (sculpture) +8 = +0 ranks, +2 Int, +6 extra mods
Escape Artist +15 = +6 ranks, +4 Dex, +3 class skill, +2 extra mods
Handle Animal +10 = +6 ranks, +4 Cha
Knowledge (nature) +11 = +6 ranks, +2 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +11 = +6 ranks, +2 Wis, +3 class skill
Stealth +15 = +6 ranks, +4 Dex, +3 class skill, +2 extra mods
Survival +8 = +6 ranks, +2 Wis
I agree.
Additionally, Craft (sculpture) in PRD is +11, which cannot be as adding a single rank to this class skill will make it +12.
chopswil wrote: Bear, Dire p. 31, incorrect will save
6 = 3 (poor) + 1 wis + 2 Iron will
SB says Will +4
forgot iron will?
I agree.
chopswil wrote: Centipede, Giant p. 43, Climb skill points don't add up
SB says Climb +10
having a climb speed only gives you +8, it doesn't make it an automatic class skill
skill points = 0 vermin
Climb +7 = +0 ranks, -1 Str, +8 extra mods
Perception +4 = +0 ranks, +0 Wis, +4 extra mods
Stealth +10 = +0 ranks, +2 Dex, +8 extra mods
I agree.
chopswil wrote: Centipede Swarm p. 43, Climb skill points don't add up
SB says Climb +12
having a climb speed only gives you +8, it doesn't make it an automatic class skill
skill points = 0 vermin
Climb +3 = +0 ranks, -5 Str, +8 extra mods
Perception +4 = +0 ranks, +0 Wis, +4 extra mods
I agree.
I also agree with the further evaluations that have gone on about using Dex instead of Strength, but also am unable to locate a reference.
chopswil wrote: Chuul p. 46, unused skill points
skill points = 40
used = 37
Knowledge (nature) +8 = +5 ranks, +0 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +19 = +10 ranks, +2 Wis, +3 class skill, +4 extra mods
Sense Motive +9 = +5 ranks, +2 Wis, +2 extra mods
Stealth +9 = +7 ranks, +3 Dex, +3 class skill, -4 extra mods
Swim +28 = +10 ranks, +7 Str, +3 class skill, +8 extra mods
I agree.
chopswil wrote: Gorbacz wrote: chopswil wrote: Couatl p. 49, skill point issues
By my math Use Magic Device has 15 ranks, but the Couatl only has 12 HD and I've got 3 skill points unused
skill points = 108
used = 105
Acrobatics +18 = +12 ranks, +3 Dex, +3 class skill
Bluff +9 = +3 ranks, +3 Cha, +3 class skill
Diplomacy +18 = +12 ranks, +3 Cha, +3 class skill
Fly +20 = +12 ranks, +3 Dex, +3 class skill, +2 extra mods
Knowledge (arcana) +9 = +3 ranks, +3 Int, +3 class skill
Knowledge (religion) +12 = +6 ranks, +3 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +23 = +12 ranks, +4 Wis, +3 class skill, +4 extra mods
Sense Motive +15 = +6 ranks, +4 Wis, +3 class skill, +2 extra mods
Spellcraft +15 = +12 ranks, +3 Int
Survival +16 = +12 ranks, +4 Wis
Use Magic Device +18 = +15 ranks, +3 Cha
UMD is a class skill in his case, likely. From the Outsider type description: Due to their varied nature, outsiders also receive 4 additional class skills determined by the creature's theme. true
these are Outsider class skills, marked with * below
Bluff, Craft, Knowledge (planes), Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth
plus 4 additional theme class skills, marked with # below
fly is due to a fly speed, @
#Acrobatics +18
*Bluff +9
#Diplomacy +18
@Fly +20
#Knowledge (arcana) +9
#Knowledge (religion) +12
*Perception +23
*Sense Motive +15
Spellcraft +15
Survival +16
Use Magic Device +18 I disagree
*waiting for shocked gasps to die down...*
Modified below, this uses all 4 theme-appropriate skills, does not violate Max Ranks = Hit Dice, and also uses up all skill points:
#Acrobatics +18
*Bluff +9
#Diplomacy +18
@Fly +20
Knowledge (arcana) +9
#Knowledge (religion) +12
*Perception +23
*Sense Motive +15
Spellcraft +15
Survival +16
#Use Magic Device +18
Breaking down:
Acrobatics +18 = +12 ranks, +3 Dex, +3 class skill
Bluff +9 = +3 ranks, +3 Cha, +3 class skill
Diplomacy +18 = +12 ranks, +3 Cha, +3 class skill
Fly +20 = +12 ranks, +3 Dex, +3 class skill, +2 extra mods
Knowledge (arcana) +9 = +6 ranks, +3 Int
Knowledge (religion) +12 = +6 ranks, +3 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +23 = +12 ranks, +4 Wis, +3 class skill, +4 extra mods
Sense Motive +15 = +6 ranks, +4 Wis, +3 class skill, +2 extra mods
Spellcraft +15 = +12 ranks, +3 Int
Survival +16 = +12 ranks, +4 Wis
Use Magic Device +18 = +12 ranks, +3 Cha, +3 class skill
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
I hope that if posts are not "in dispute" that they are getting reposted to the "we really don't get how this came to be" thread :)
jreyst wrote: I hope that if posts are not "in dispute" that they are getting reposted to the "we really don't get how this came to be" thread :) for Bestiary 1, I believe this is the thread
BTW, I'm using Bestiary version with the latest errata June 2010.
Drakir2010, I believe you're correct on your point distribution for Couatl.
Page 8 reviewed. I agree with chopswil's assessment of the following mathematical errors:
Crocodile, Dire
Demon, Nabasu
Demon, Quasit
Devil, Bone
Dinosaur, Pteranodon
Drider
All small creatures (particularly familiars) that appear to use their Dex modifier to climb instead of their Str.
I didn't check the formatting errors.
I'll give everything else its own post.
chopswil wrote: Dinosaur, Deinonychus p. 84 Acrobatics skill point issue
Acrobatics +14 = +0 ranks, +2 Dex, +4 run + 8 racial mod
Perception +14 = +2 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill, +8 extra mods
Stealth +15 = +2 ranks, +2 Dex, +3 class skill, +8 extra mods
SB says Acrobatics +10, you forgot run feat mod
I disagree.
The bonus to acrobatics from the Run feat is highly situational. Specifically
PRD wrote: If you make a jump after a running start (see the Acrobatics skill description), you gain a +4 bonus on your Acrobatics check. This shouldn't be listed in the general stat block.
chopswil wrote: Dolphin, Orca p. 88, skill points issue
I had to use more points than were possible to get Swim to +28
skill points = 9
used = 12
Perception +19 = +3 ranks, +2 Wis, +3 class skill, +11 extra mods
Swim +28 = +9 ranks, +8 Str, +3 class skill, +8 extra mods
I disagree.
He has Skill Focus (Swim).
Swim +28 = +6 ranks, +8 Str, +3 class skill, +8 swim speed, +3 skill focus
chopswil wrote: Frog, Poison p. 135, Stealth skill point issue
I can only get Stealth to +9, SB says +13
missing racial mod?
skill points= 1
Acrobatics +5 = +0 ranks, +1 Dex, +4 extra mods
Perception +3 = +1 ranks, -1 Wis, +3 class skill
Stealth +9 = +0 ranks, +1 Dex, +8 extra mods
Swim +9 = +0 ranks, +1 Dex, +8 extra mods
There is a +4 racial bonus to stealth listed in the PRD. Is this not reflected in the errata?
Drakir2010 wrote: chopswil wrote: Frog, Poison p. 135, Stealth skill point issue
I can only get Stealth to +9, SB says +13
missing racial mod?
skill points= 1
Acrobatics +5 = +0 ranks, +1 Dex, +4 extra mods
Perception +3 = +1 ranks, -1 Wis, +3 class skill
Stealth +9 = +0 ranks, +1 Dex, +8 extra mods
Swim +9 = +0 ranks, +1 Dex, +8 extra mods
There is a +4 racial bonus to stealth listed in the PRD. Is this not reflected in the errata? you are correct, my error
Drakir2010 wrote: chopswil wrote: Dolphin, Orca p. 88, skill points issue
I had to use more points than were possible to get Swim to +28
skill points = 9
used = 12
Perception +19 = +3 ranks, +2 Wis, +3 class skill, +11 extra mods
Swim +28 = +9 ranks, +8 Str, +3 class skill, +8 extra mods
I disagree.
He has Skill Focus (Swim).
Swim +28 = +6 ranks, +8 Str, +3 class skill, +8 swim speed, +3 skill focus you are correct my error
Drakir2010 wrote: chopswil wrote: Dinosaur, Deinonychus p. 84 Acrobatics skill point issue
Acrobatics +14 = +0 ranks, +2 Dex, +4 run + 8 racial mod
Perception +14 = +2 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill, +8 extra mods
Stealth +15 = +2 ranks, +2 Dex, +3 class skill, +8 extra mods
SB says Acrobatics +10, you forgot run feat mod
I disagree.
The bonus to acrobatics from the Run feat is highly situational. Specifically
PRD wrote: If you make a jump after a running start (see the Acrobatics skill description), you gain a +4 bonus on your Acrobatics check. This shouldn't be listed in the general stat block. ok, I'll buy that but then the +22 jump mod seems questionable
Acrobatics +10 (+22 jump)
chopswil wrote: Mimic p.205, skill point issues
To get Disguise to +10 I had to use more points than I had and the mimic only has 7 HD so it can't have 10 ranks.
skill points = 28
used = 31
Climb +14 = +7 ranks, +4 Str, +3 class skill
Disguise +10 = +10 ranks, +0 Cha
Knowledge (dungeoneering) +10 = +7 ranks, +0 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +14 = +7 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill, +3 extra mods
According to the mimic's special abilities, Disguise is always a class skill for mimics.
NOTABUG
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
And that's folks why community driven errata sucks. One guy thinks it's an error, but he didn't read A, and is corrected by another guy who read A but didn't read B, and they're all wrong because the developer remembered about C which is buried somewhere in the core rulebook. Yawn.
It's almost like if I would send a part of my PhD thesis for public review. :)
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