I have found that the links in the Table of Contents from Aasimar to Bronze Dragon do not connect you to that page. Bugbear is the first link I found that worked. Just thought I would let someone know.
Just my 2 cp.
EDIT: BTW this is in the single file PDF.
Ahem. I will add that the AC on the Fire Giant is wrong, as they used the 3.5 Half Plate AC bonus.
I did a quick check through other threads of the Bestiary but didn't find what I was looking for. So if what I ask about is elsewhere please let me know. I noticed that the Gray Render is not in the bestiary. It is listed in the SRD. Could it be under another name or listing?
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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As I understand it, a lot of 3.5 SRD monsters didn't make it into the Bestiary.
There wasn't enough room (they say), but when you get it (the 3.p Bestiary) you will love it despite the occasional missing monster. All of the missing ones are planned to be in the next Monster book tho.
Check page 298 in the Glossary. Copied for your convenience:
Breath weapons allow a Reflex
save for half damage (DC 10 + 1/2 breathing creature’s
racial HD + breathing creature’s Con modifier; the exact
DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text).
Just my 2 cp.
I don't believe any thread here stays on topic through the whole thing. That's okay with me. I just started this one because I didn't see anywhere else to place some of my concerns about the PDF.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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So, what do you guys that have it think about undead? That has always been one of my biggest concerns with PathFinder (with Channel Energy and Sneak Attack).
I don't understand your question. But Undead can be Sneak Attacked and Channel Positive killed.
I found it odd that Distraction makes you nauseated
I'm pretty sure that was the same as in 3.5 rules? At least a number of Swarms Distracted and made them Nauseated if they failed.
So I'm assuming that y'all got your books early? I'm pretty excited to read the new MM, but I've got to wait for the PDF to go live.
How does the Aasimar look?
Creative Director
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"Look, a distraction!"
*horf*
I found it odd that Distraction makes you nauseated. But it's a nice abbreviated way of saying all you can do is move, I guess. It could have been Dazed, but that doesn't allow movement.
This isn't really errata, just an observation.
It's not that distraction makes you nauseated as much as it is the monsters that cause distraction (swarms) are pretty nauseating. It's not the best word for a special attack, but it's not one we wanted to change due to the fact that it's an existing game concept.
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Creative Director
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I did a quick check through other threads of the Bestiary but didn't find what I was looking for. So if what I ask about is elsewhere please let me know. I noticed that the Gray Render is not in the bestiary. It is listed in the SRD. Could it be under another name or listing?
With the Bestiary, we didn't have enough room to put all the monsters from the SRD in the book. Especially since we wanted to alter the monster mix somewhat to put in new monsters, Pathfinder monsters, or open source monsters we use more than some of the SRD monsters. In most cases, the SRD monsters that "went missing" from the Bestiary will end up in Bestairy 2 (which we haven't announced a release date yet for). Some of those monsters will get previewed in our products; the howler shows up with Pathfinder stats in Pathfinder #26, for example; the chaos beast shows up in "Carrion Hill."
Note... there'll be a few SRD monsters that will NEVER make it into a bestiary for various reasons (mostly because the staff at Paizo feels that not all SRD monsters are "winners" and there's better things to do with those pages), but that number is pretty small. And the gray render's not among them; he'll very likely show up within a year or so.
Until then, of course, the 3.5 gray render still works fine.
When I clicked on the link for Monster Feats, it took me to page 315, not 314.
Appendix #4 actually begins on page 313, but the link takes you to page 314.
These and the ones I mentioned in the OP are the only link problems I can find so far. Good job.
Drow Noble, while Jason feels it is clear, was not obvious to me until he explained it.
In other words, the fact that Noble Drow are +1 CR (and cost one level) needs to made overt.
Have to agree, or at least have a paragraph stating it under the CR explanation, to cover other monsters.
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Creative Director
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Drow Noble, while Jason feels it is clear, was not obvious to me until he explained it.
In other words, the fact that Noble Drow are +1 CR (and cost one level) needs to made overt.
Cost 1 level? As in "cost a level when used as a PC"?
I'm not sure ANY of the language in the actual monster descriptions talks about playing any of the monsters as PCs... that's not part of a monster writeup's purpose, in any event.
Drow Noble, while Jason feels it is clear, was not obvious to me until he explained it.
In other words, the fact that Noble Drow are +1 CR (and cost one level) needs to made overt.
Cost 1 level? As in "cost a level when used as a PC"?
I'm not sure ANY of the language in the actual monster descriptions talks about playing any of the monsters as PCs... that's not part of a monster writeup's purpose, in any event.
Uhm, James?
You specifically have 'character stats' called out for both Drow and Noble Drow, built up as a player character race stat block. Not trying to be argumentative, just saying that it could be clearer especially if you are listing the stat block as a race.
I took the 'character stats' section to mean that those were the modifiers to use if you were building NPCs of those classes...
I took the 'character stats' section to mean that those were the modifiers to use if you were building NPCs of those classes...
An implicit +1 CR is just as important, if not more so, for NPCs though...
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Cost 1 level? As in "cost a level when used as a PC"?
that's not part of a monster writeup's purpose, in any event.
Yes as a PC, but, with respect, the Noble Drow was written up "Noble Drow as a PC" section and it is not abundantly clear there is a +1 CR associated with the Noble Drow. Jason has made it clear there is and has shown how it says so in the Bestiary book, but the phrase used to show it is +1 CR does not contain "+1 CR" in the phrase.
The section is called "Drow Noble Characters", not "Noble Drow as a PC". This is because drow that the GM uses as opponents are characters, they have class levels, not racial hit dice. Thus, this information is essential in building drow opponents. It is not generally intended for PCs
In short, the "X race Characters" sections are there for the GM to build opponents from that race, not for players to create supposedly super-cool non-standard characters.
The section is called "Drow Noble Characters", not "Noble Drow as a PC". This is because drow that the GM uses as opponents are characters, they have class levels, not racial hit dice. Thus, this information is essential in building drow opponents. It is not generally intended for PCs
In short, the "X race Characters" sections are there for the GM to build opponents from that race, not for players to create supposedly super-cool non-standard characters.
*sigh*
And I repeat again, a +1 CR for an NPC character is still better to be explicitly stated, perhaps even more importantly for an NPC character, than for a regular character, if you are trying to get CR's right for an encounter.
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Creative Director
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I took the 'character stats' section to mean that those were the modifiers to use if you were building NPCs of those classes...
This is correct.
Of course, it CAN also be used to build PCs. But The intent is that drow are NPCs, and since they have no racial HD, they need that "as characters" section.
Except you have to know that most of us are going to want/allow just that very process. (Though Drow Nobles do seem to need to be +2 CR, so +1 of it never gets bought off)The section is called "Drow Noble Characters", not "Noble Drow as a PC". This is because drow that the GM uses as opponents are characters, they have class levels, not racial hit dice. Thus, this information is essential in building drow opponents. It is not generally intended for PCs
In short, the "X race Characters" sections are there for the GM to build opponents from that race, not for players to create supposedly super-cool non-standard characters.
I know. Well I'm not sure about the "most of us", I still think most player will still play standard races. Anyway, these rules are primarily designed for NPCs and not specifically intended for PCs. That is just my point.
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Creative Director
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Part of removing the hard-coded ECL/LA rules from the game was PRECISELY to give each individual GM more "footing" to decide what's best for his game and what's not. Basically... letting each GM decide what's good and NOT "arming" players with swishy and flimsy rules to use as leverage against their GM's wishes and decisions.
Some aspects of the game are best decided upon by the GM, not the publisher, in other words.
Some aspects of the game are best decided upon by the GM, not the publisher
Thank you very much for saying that out loud. I've been reading it between the lines in several places within the book, and I'm very happy to have that assumption worked back into the core.
This gives me the ammo I need to back up my codification of the Inverse Oberoni Principle: The absence of a rule is not the same as a bad rule.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Some aspects of the game are best decided upon by the GM, not the publisher, in other words.
I agree completely, but look at it from my point of view:
I am a DM that allowed every monster with an LA to be played.
I have players that play Drow (now converted to Noble Drow.)
I want to let players play Pixies (because I have a Pixie player in a game.)
I can't really use the CR rules (despite them being pretty awesome in several ways) because some races are ridiculously powerful in this case, (I'm looking at you Hound Archon and some others.)
So now I have all these house rules to shoehorn into the Bestiary:
1) If the BAB of the racial HD is greater than the CR, set the CR to the BAB.
2) If the racial HD provide spellcasting of a caster level greater than the CR, set the CR to the Caster Level.
3) If the race provides at will abilities that are worth more when made in magic items than a typical spell of that level, then those abilities have 3/day usage or increase the CR by 1 each (I'm looking at your Teleport, Invisibility, etc.)
I don't like house rules.
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Creative Director
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I don't like house rules.
Well... if you're going to use the Pathfinder rules and allow unusual player races... you aren't going to have much of a choice if you don't like the guidelines we give in Appendix 4 in the Bestairy, because we don't have plans currently to expand the game's scope to allow for player character races that encourage players to play races with pixie-level superpower.
As the months and years wear on, we'll absolutely be introducing more rules, and the chances for example of us eventually building a PC-friendly race that's similar to the pixie certainly aren't zero.
But if you can't wait for us to get around to it, you're pretty much stuck with either house rules or using some older 3.5 product like Savage Species.
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Creative Director
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Genie, Janni on page 141 has speeds that look wrong:
Speed 20 ft, Fly 20 ft (perfect)
then goes on to say
Speed 30 ft, Fly 15 ft (perfect) in chainmail
I assume one or the other land speed is wrong. I assume the 30 ft speed when wearing chainmail should be 20 ft.
Yeah; that should be a base speed of 20 feet, fly 15 feet without chainmail. Base speed of 30 feet, fly 20 ft. with chainmail.
Yeah; that should be a base speed of 20 feet, fly 15 feet without chainmail. Base speed of 30 feet, fly 20 ft. with chainmail.
How much does some chainmail that will increase my base speed by 10' and my flight speed 5' cost?
Yeah; that should be a base speed of 20 feet, fly 15 feet without chainmail. Base speed of 30 feet, fly 20 ft. with chainmail.Genie, Janni on page 141 has speeds that look wrong:
Speed 20 ft, Fly 20 ft (perfect)
then goes on to say
Speed 30 ft, Fly 15 ft (perfect) in chainmail
I assume one or the other land speed is wrong. I assume the 30 ft speed when wearing chainmail should be 20 ft.
Uh... that makes no sense. Why would he go faster when wearing chainmail than when not? I would have expected it to be 30 feet when not in chainmail (like most medium sized creatures) and 20 feet in chainmail?
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Creative Director
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Uh... that makes no sense. Why would he go faster when wearing chainmail than when not? I would have expected it to be 30 feet when not in chainmail (like most medium sized creatures) and 20 feet in chainmail?Yeah; that should be a base speed of 20 feet, fly 15 feet without chainmail. Base speed of 30 feet, fly 20 ft. with chainmail.Genie, Janni on page 141 has speeds that look wrong:
Speed 20 ft, Fly 20 ft (perfect)
then goes on to say
Speed 30 ft, Fly 15 ft (perfect) in chainmail
I assume one or the other land speed is wrong. I assume the 30 ft speed when wearing chainmail should be 20 ft.
I reversed it... you're witnessing what working 60+hour weeks for many months in a row can do to an editor's brain.
The correct entry for the janni's speed should OBVIOUSLY read:
Speed 30 ft., fly 20 ft. (perfect); 20 ft., fly 15 ft. (perfect) in chainmail.
As in... the chainmail reduces their speed just like it would to a human. Assuming said human also had the magical ability to fly at a speed of 20 ft. (perfect).
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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The correct entry for the janni's speed should OBVIOUSLY read:
Speed 30 ft, fly 20 ft. (perfect); 20 ft, fly 15 ft. (perfect) in chainmail.
Yea I didn't know which of the two bolded speed represented the error.
Thanks for correcting.How much does some chainmail that will increase my base speed by 10' and my flight speed 5' cost?
See above ;-)
But if you can't wait for us to get around to it, you're pretty much stuck with either house rules or using some older 3.5 product like Savage Species.
Sadly, I have already created a web of House Rules around the new "Monster as PC races" framework. I was just pointing out that I didn't like doing so. ;-)
I did notice a nice "cheat sheet" helper application, the Cohort Level values are much higher and match closer to my calculations. So I'm using those (+2 to represent the PC) for now.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Cloud Giant Bestiary p147
Has 8 feats (correct amount for HD) including two Greater feats (Overrun/Bull Rush) without the required prereqs of the Improved versions.
Possible fixes:
1) List the two Improved versions as (B) feats (Bonus racial feats)
2) Replace Improved instead of Greater versions.
3) Grant a racial ability like Oversized Weapon (Ex) that does this for Bull Rush/Overrun?
Part of removing the hard-coded ECL/LA rules from the game was PRECISELY to give each individual GM more "footing" to decide what's best for his game and what's not. Basically... letting each GM decide what's good and NOT "arming" players with swishy and flimsy rules to use as leverage against their GM's wishes and decisions.
Some aspects of the game are best decided upon by the GM, not the publisher, in other words.
Amen.