Out of spells? Rage rounds? Smites? Look no further.

[Gamender]

On wildshaping wrote:

The first Shaping was always a very painful and dangerous task for any young druid in the making. The body's original form constantly tries to reassert itself, fighting off the unnatural changes being forced into it.

Druid apprentices are always cautioned on the amount of control they exert during the Shaping. Too little, and the Shaping is rejected in a most painful and violent fashion. Too much, and, well there was always the danger of the new form overshadowing the old. A wolf's mind is still a wolf's, even if it was sentient to begin with. There were stories of druids completely losing themselves to the essence of the wild; becoming forever a wandering wolf, a soaring eagle.

The most successful of these first attempts lasted but a moment, a few seconds at best. True mastery of Shaping came with continuous and constant practice.

Well, writing that little piece got me thinking on overtly complicated class mechanics.

I'm thinking of the ability for classes to use an ability beyond their current capacity, with associated penalties. For instance, a druid wildshaping before he reaches level 4, or after using his wildshapes per day, or into a form he cannot normally do, will have to make a will save/concentration check every round to keep the form going, and failing will revert him to normal, and either fatigue him, damage him, or do both.

A barbarian could, after using all of his rage rounds, can still rage, though with more fatigue penalties(even exhaustion), and/or consecutive saves.

Bardic performances beyond the norm could have lower dc's, weaker effects, or something of the like.

I could keep going, but I'll stop there. This could also be applied to more spells, replacing prepared spells with a different one, smites, ki pools, and then some. It leaves the fighters worse for wear though, I'll have to think of how to include them. Maybe allowing partial feat usage?

I dunno, train of thought is lost. it's a spur of the moment thing I came up with. I get a feeling someone's already come up with this, but what the hell, I'll post it anyway. Comments on the concept is appreciated.

[Abraham spalding]

On the fighter you could give a check in order to use a feat that he hasn't taken yet. An example: Rogath the Bold has seen Ganger the Cunning use a specific trick to trip his enemies. Now Rogath hasn't really had time to practice the trick (i.e. learn the feat) but he has a decent idea of how it was done and wants to attempt it on a particular foe...

So he makes a concentration check (lets say fighter level + His best stat... his choice in this case) against a DC of 10+BAB requirement+5 for every feat in the chain he doesn't have. If the fighter succeeds then he can perform the maneuver, if he fails he provokes an AoO as he fumbles it.

This is of course a very sloppy beginning to the mechanic, but I could definitely see a feat... say Improvisation Master which gives him a +4 to the check (ala Combat Casting feat).

[Gamender]

Abraham spalding wrote:

...Now Rogath hasn't really had time to practice the trick (i.e. learn the feat)...

I'd argue that practicing the trick is different than learning the feat. Given the druid example beforehand, I like to think that the feat is the icing on the cake. Or, the perfection of an ability that has been practiced beforehand. But that's a roleplay thing.

You have the general idea down, yeah, and the feat chain thing is good for the fighter. The problem is that technically, everyone can emulate a feat. Plus the static DC would mean that a high level fighter could emulate low level feats with ease.

Maybe if we restrict the fighter to combat feats, and increase the dc to scale. A significant enough risk should always be present in copying a feat of ability that a character doesn't have at present.

Of course, the mechanics of the rule leaves the fighters and maybe even rogues out, since they lack the 'limited resources' feature that most of the rule is focused on.

[T O]

Mutants and Masterminds (d20-based superhero rpg) has an interesting way to achieve something like this. Superheroes in that game have two kinds of action points, one that can be spent to add feats on a one-use basis, the other (the "bigger" ones) that can be spent to add powers (as in superpowers) in the same way.

Use Eberron's action point system, and add this (temporary feat use or extra daily use of some other ability) as another way to spend action points, and you're off and running.

I'd be very wary of allowing extra uses of per-day abilities based on making a roll. It's just asking for abuse and balance problems, given how many ways there are of sending bonuses through the roof with feats and other mechanics. I bet it can be done fairly, just not easily.

[Talynonyx]

Maybe there should be a feat and/or stat requirement to be able to push ones body/mind/link with their god whatever to the limits?

Maybe for the a fighter being able to emulate the feat he should at least be able to physically meet the requirements, so no 10 DEX fighters emulating Whirlwind. Plus some feats should be excluded like say top tier feats.

[Gamender]

T O wrote:

Mutants and Masterminds (d20-based superhero rpg) has an interesting way to achieve something like this. Superheroes in that game have two kinds of action points, one that can be spent to add feats on a one-use basis, the other (the "bigger" ones) that can be spent to add powers (as in superpowers) in the same way.

Use Eberron's action point system, and add this (temporary feat use or extra daily use of some other ability) as another way to spend action points, and you're off and running.

I'd be very wary of allowing extra uses of per-day abilities based on making a roll. It's just asking for abuse and balance problems, given how many ways there are of sending bonuses through the roof with feats and other mechanics. I bet it can be done fairly, just not easily.

Action points may be a handy gauge for that, but I suspect there'd be less of a penalty for using it. AP is an even more limited resource after all. It's a decent alternative.

As for allowing extra uses per day, I'd like to think of it as an desperate move to use when you're absolutely out of wildshapes/smites/channels/rage/song/etc. A lower-leveled version maybe, with very severe penalties for actually doing it. Nonlethal damage, exhaustion, and other effects that would make it a last resort thing.

I'll do some numbers later on, exams and all.

[T O]

Gamender wrote:

. . . exams and all.

Good luck!