on page 97, it shows the DC for the trick
Is the DC for the animal learning the trick or for the animal performing the trick after it already knows the trick
or does the animal automatically succeed in performing the trick once it has learned the trick.
Creative Director
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on page 97, it shows the DC for the trick
Is the DC for the animal learning the trick or for the animal performing the trick after it already knows the trick
or does the animal automatically succeed in performing the trick once it has learned the trick.
That's the DC to teach the animal the trick. Once an animal knows a trick, it can do that trick when commanded automatically.
That's the DC to teach the animal the trick. Once an animal knows a trick, it can do that trick when commanded automatically.
James,
The skill reads:
Handle an Animal: This task involves commanding an
animal to perform a task or trick that it knows. If the animal
is wounded or has taken any nonlethal damage or ability
score damage, the DC increases by 2. If your check succeeds,
the animal performs the task or trick on its next action.
This indicates to me that the animal does not necessarily perform the trick automatically. Granted, the DC is low but in combat I'd not allow a character to take a 10 on it, so there is a chance of failure. Can you please clarify the ruling? There may be something I missed.
Thanks
That's the DC to teach the animal the trick. Once an animal knows a trick, it can do that trick when commanded automatically.
James,
The skill reads:
Handle an Animal: This task involves commanding an animal to perform a task or trick that it knows. If the animal is wounded or has taken any nonlethal damage or ability score damage, the DC increases by 2. If your check succeeds, the animal performs the task or trick on its next action.This indicates to me that the animal does not necessarily perform the trick automatically. Granted, the DC is low but in combat I'd not allow a character to take a 10 on it, so there is a chance of failure. Can you please clarify the ruling? There may be something I missed.
Thanks
I see your point. Page 97 seems to read:
Handle an animal DC=10 I would guess that that applies if the animal already knows the trick.
Push an animal DC=25 I would guess that applies if the animal doesn't know the trick yet, but is physically capable of performing the trick.
There is the further instance regarding a Druid's or Ranger's animal companion. Page 98 says that Druid's animal companion gains a +4 on Handle Animal check involving their animal companion.
It also says that the animal companion gets one bonus trick that does not require training time or Handle Animal checks for training. I would read that to mean that the Druid or Ranger must still make a handle animal check for the bonus trick at a +4.
Okay, after reading some more, I have additional questions. I have a way of making things too complicated and for that I apologize in advance...
Here we go....
Page 52, Druid Class - Bonus Trick description
These bonus tricks don’t require any training time or Handle Animal checks, and they don’t count against the normal limit of tricks known by the animal. The druid selects these bonus tricks, and once selected, they can’t be changed.
Page 97, Handle Animal Skill description
In addition, a druid’s or ranger’s animal companion knows one or more bonus tricks, which don’t count against the normal limit on tricks known and don’t require any training time or Handle Animal checks to teach.
Note the difference in expression between the bonus trick description in the Druid class description and the Handle Animal skill description. The former could reasonably be interpreted to mean that a Druid does not have to roll to either train or command an animal companion. (automatic success with training and command of bonus trick.
The later could be interpreted to mean that the Druid does not have to roll to train the animal companion, but does have to roll to command the animal companion.
Which is correct?
Next question:
Page 52, Special Ability Link description
Link (Ex): A druid can handle her animal companion as a free action, or push it as a move action, even if she doesn’t have any ranks in the Handle Animal skill. The druid gains a +4 circumstance bonus on all wild empathy checks and Handle Animal checks made regarding an animal companion.
Page 97, Handle Animal Skill description
A druid or ranger gains a +4 circumstance bonus on Handle Animal checks involving an animal companion.
Are these separate modifiers? If a druid has both 'Link' and the 'Handle Animal' skill, does that Druid gain a +4 for link AND a +4 for Handle Animal, resulting in a +8 towards their animal companion. This is significant if a Druid Nature Bond other than Animal Companion selected.
So, if a Druid has animal Companion Nature Bond, Link special skill (+4), Handle Animal skill rank 1 (which is a class skill) (+4); extra Druid/Ranger bonus (+4) for Handle Animal, then that results in a total modifier of +12 for Rank 1 Handle Animal. That is just about the same as automatic success, though I guess that a roll of a '1' is still failure.
For an animal that is not an Animal Companion you lose the +4 for link, so you have a total modifier of +8 for Rank 1 Handle Animal?
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For the animal companion to learn the bonus trick does not require Handle Animal roll. For the animal to perform the trick does require a roll.
The rules of Special Ability Link description and Handle Animal Skill description +4 circumstance bonus are talking about the same thing, the total bonus is +4 regarding the Handle Animal check.
For the animal companion to learn the bonus trick does not require Handle Animal roll. For the animal to perform the trick does require a roll.
The rules of Special Ability Link description and Handle Animal Skill description +4 circumstance bonus are talking about the same thing, the total bonus is +4 regarding the Handle Animal check.
I'd have to concur with the latter part of Grey Cat's post.
Having said that the Bonus Trick's section states
These bonus tricks don’t require any training time or Handle Animal checks, and they don’t count against the normal limit of tricks known by the animal.
And I took that to mean that the bonus trick didn't require a handle animal roll. I may have to rethink this though, especially since it's clarified a bit under "Handle Animal".
In addition, a druid’s or ranger’s animal companion knows one or more bonus tricks, which don’t count against the normal limit on tricks known and don’t require any training time or Handle Animal checks to teach.
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For the animal companion to learn the bonus trick does not require Handle Animal roll. For the animal to perform the trick does require a roll.
The rules of Special Ability Link description and Handle Animal Skill description +4 circumstance bonus are talking about the same thing, the total bonus is +4 regarding the Handle Animal check.
Even if they were seperate things, I thought similar bonuses didn't stack, were circumstance bonuses negated from that rule?
For the animal companion to learn the bonus trick does not require Handle Animal roll. For the animal to perform the trick does require a roll.
The rules of Special Ability Link description and Handle Animal Skill description +4 circumstance bonus are talking about the same thing, the total bonus is +4 regarding the Handle Animal check.
Unless James Jacobs comes back and smacks me on the head for ignoring his post above, I think that I agree with your interpretation as well. That allows for the automatic failure, even if lots of bonuses.
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Unless James Jacobs comes back and smacks me on the head for ignoring his post above, I think that I agree with your interpretation as well. That allows for the automatic failure, even if lots of bonuses.For the animal companion to learn the bonus trick does not require Handle Animal roll. For the animal to perform the trick does require a roll.
The rules of Special Ability Link description and Handle Animal Skill description +4 circumstance bonus are talking about the same thing, the total bonus is +4 regarding the Handle Animal check.
James Jacobs is correct of course, once an animal knows a trick, it can do that trick when commanded automatically.
The Handle Animal is rolled to determine if the character successfully commands the animal to do the trick, not if the animal can do the trick.
James Jacobs is correct of course, once an animal knows a trick, it can do that trick when commanded automatically.The Handle Animal is rolled to determine if the character successfully commands the animal to do the trick, not if the animal can do the trick.
D'oh! Now that makes sense!