Grapple and Two Hands


Rules Questions


Exactly how do grapples work with respect to Full-Round Attack Actions?

The rules state

"grappled creatures can take no action that requires two hands to perform"

If a creature has 2 claw attacks (but one claw is "grappled"), can the creature still make a full-round attack action? Obviously it cannot use both claws, but can it make both attacks with one claw?

What about a guy with a sword and shield? If he attacks his grappler with the sword, does it mean he loses his shield bonus to AC (since then that arm is grappled) - or vice versa - if he uses the shield to defend himself, he cannot use the sword to make attacks anymore.

Presumably a two-weapon-wielder can chose which weapon he still wants available to do attacks with, but do "two-weapon fighting" feats (such as two-weapon defense) still apply?

Or, for that matter, does the grappler have the choice of which arm is "disabled" during the grapple? i.e. the grappler can specifically target the sword arm of his target during the grapple?


As I understand it, in your scenarios the claw attacker would be at a -4 to attack (providing it still had one claw free, or even a bite for that matter as the grappled condition throws off its' normal equilibrium). Also, the sword and shield guy would lose either his shield bonus and be -4 to attack with the sword, or lose the sword attack, shield bonus, and be -4 to attack with the sheild.

Then again, if they have the grappled condition and there attacker decides to incapacitate them (as opposed to doing damage), they could do nothing other than try and escape the grapple.

I don't have the rules in front of me (sorry) and therefore could be completely off. But that is what makes sense to me.


Patrick Murphy wrote:

As I understand it, in your scenarios the claw attacker would be at a -4 to attack (providing it still had one claw free, or even a bite for that matter as the grappled condition throws off its' normal equilibrium). Also, the sword and shield guy would lose either his shield bonus and be -4 to attack with the sword, or lose the sword attack, shield bonus, and be -4 to attack with the sheild.

Then again, if they have the grappled condition and there attacker decides to incapacitate them (as opposed to doing damage), they could do nothing other than try and escape the grapple.

I don't have the rules in front of me (sorry) and therefore could be completely off. But that is what makes sense to me.

Any 2nd takers?


LoreKeeper wrote:

Exactly how do grapples work with respect to Full-Round Attack Actions?

The rules state

"grappled creatures can take no action that requires two hands to perform"

If a creature has 2 claw attacks (but one claw is "grappled"), can the creature still make a full-round attack action? Obviously it cannot use both claws, but can it make both attacks with one claw?

Unless the creature is of sufficient BAB to garner second attacks with one hand it is accepted that it is using the offhand attack rule, also as shown in earlier discussions the grappled cannot take a full attack action as the rules state, may make AN attack. This is because a full attack needs all your attention for the round, when grappled your trying to grapple and attack so cant really justify full attack.

Also its not -4 to all attacks, its -2 to attack with a weapon etc when your in the grappled condition, the -4 is for the grapple action to actually grapple when done one handed. There is also a -4 to dexterity when grappled which applies to those using dex instead of strength so then you would have a -4 to attack with a sword in that case and obviously your CMD is affected by the dex drop.

Quote:
What about a guy with a sword and shield? If he attacks his grappler with the sword, does it mean he loses his shield bonus to AC (since then that arm is grappled) - or vice versa - if he uses the shield to defend himself, he cannot use the sword to make attacks anymore.

Well his shield doesnt help in defence against the grappler anyway as its all down to CMB/CMD but you could take it either way vs a third party attacking into the grapple. The shield still covers a large part of the body, it just does not affect the starter of the grapple. I will definitely be checking this when I get home.

Quote:
Presumably a two-weapon-wielder can chose which weapon he still wants available to do attacks with, but do "two-weapon fighting" feats (such as two-weapon defense) still apply?

To cover all aspects, unless its a bastard sword or he is large he cant wield a two handed sword one handed or do any two handed feats as the one hand only rule trumps them. In terms of two weapon defense, its a no as you cant use both hands. Havent got rulebook here but he could drop the sword and draw another possibly if you dont like the one currently in hand.

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Or, for that matter, does the grappler have the choice of which arm is "disabled" during the grapple? i.e. the grappler can specifically target the sword arm of his target during the grapple?

Think this may be looking too deep, you could house rule it but I believe it is assumed you would keep the stronger arm more protected than the other when being grappled and so would always have that free. So normally just say right hand is free unless you want a left handed character :)


A grappler with a bite gets a bonus in that it can grapple with two hands (thereby not getting -4 to the grapple attack attempt) then use its bite damage upon the completion of each successful grapple thereafter.

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