I have played fighters, Barbarians, and clerics before, but have never played a paladin before. I am currently playing a rogue with beta rules (currently converting to core rulebook). My DM is starting up a 1 - 15 core rulebook campaign using High Fantasy point buy. I am looking for advice on what others have found to be beneficial to paladins as opposed to what isn't in terms of feats, skill ranks, stats, etc.
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The most important thing to know about playing a paladin is do you clearly understand your DM's stance on the paladin code.
What will make you fall? Does he tailor the code to the god? Does he allow you to tailor the code to the god? What are his expectations of you? Are the other players willing to play characters that can play with nicely with a paladin in the party - or are you doomed from the start with interparty conflict?
Paladins have been upgraded for pathfinder. There are things that are helpful and not helpful to build into the paladin, but it's not horribly complex. Learn how smite works, lay on hands is another important consideration, then go ahead and pick feats that help you heal, channel or fight well.
Some feats to look at are Selective Channelling, Alignement Channeling, Extra Lay on Hands and Extra Mercies.
Part of your choices will depend on what kind of campaign that you are playing in. Will you be facing a lot of evil outsiders (playing in the World Wound area?)? An undead heavy campaign? A diplomacy heavy campaign (where persuasive feat would be beneficial)?
I just started playing a paladin after the tragic death of Alezandro the great Bard (and the hangers-on he allowed to travel with him). It's a paladin of Serenrae no less.
But I fear it won't help you much, because he's not your run-of-the-mill paladin. No heavy armour, no big-ass sword or sword-and-board.
The paladin's a dervish to the hilt: Paladin 6/Duelist 5 (so far), with high dex (thanks to dancing dervish) and more int than most Paladins.
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I just started playing a paladin after the tragic death of Alezandro the great Bard (and the hangers-on he allowed to travel with him). It's a paladin of Serenrae no less.
But I fear it won't help you much, because he's not your run-of-the-mill paladin. No heavy armour, no big-ass sword or sword-and-board.
The paladin's a dervish to the hilt: Paladin 6/Duelist 5 (so far), with high dex (thanks to dancing dervish) and more int than most Paladins.
Wait, you're allowed to play a paladin with a positive intelligence modifier? Since when?!?
Wait, you're allowed to play a paladin with a positive intelligence modifier? Since when?!?I just started playing a paladin after the tragic death of Alezandro the great Bard (and the hangers-on he allowed to travel with him). It's a paladin of Serenrae no less.
But I fear it won't help you much, because he's not your run-of-the-mill paladin. No heavy armour, no big-ass sword or sword-and-board.
The paladin's a dervish to the hilt: Paladin 6/Duelist 5 (so far), with high dex (thanks to dancing dervish) and more int than most Paladins.
I usually do. I like having a few extra skill points. Helps build a decent set of skills for social encounters. I mean what Knight in Shining armor can't dance or if needs be discuss intelligently more refined topics then sword play. I mean nothing catches the attention of the damsel fair like being able to talk about something she cares about. Well maybe a fine sonet song to her under the moonlight would do as well, but you need points in perform song and poetry to pull that off.
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I usually do. I like having a few extra skill points. Helps build a decent set of skills for social encounters. I mean what Knight in Shining armor can't dance or if needs be discuss intelligently more refined topics then sword play. I mean nothing catches the attention of the damsel fair like being able to talk about something she cares about. Well maybe a fine sonet song to her under the moonlight would do as well, but you need points in perform song and poetry to pull that off.Wait, you're allowed to play a paladin with a positive intelligence modifier? Since when?!?I just started playing a paladin after the tragic death of Alezandro the great Bard (and the hangers-on he allowed to travel with him). It's a paladin of Serenrae no less.
But I fear it won't help you much, because he's not your run-of-the-mill paladin. No heavy armour, no big-ass sword or sword-and-board.
The paladin's a dervish to the hilt: Paladin 6/Duelist 5 (so far), with high dex (thanks to dancing dervish) and more int than most Paladins.
No,no, you misunderstand. I mean KaeYoss.
No,no, you misunderstand. I mean KaeYoss.I usually do. I like having a few extra skill points. Helps build a decent set of skills for social encounters. I mean what Knight in Shining armor can't dance or if needs be discuss intelligently more refined topics then sword play. I mean nothing catches the attention of the damsel fair like being able to talk about something she cares about. Well maybe a fine sonet song to her under the moonlight would do as well, but you need points in perform song and poetry to pull that off.Wait, you're allowed to play a paladin with a positive intelligence modifier? Since when?!?I just started playing a paladin after the tragic death of Alezandro the great Bard (and the hangers-on he allowed to travel with him). It's a paladin of Serenrae no less.
But I fear it won't help you much, because he's not your run-of-the-mill paladin. No heavy armour, no big-ass sword or sword-and-board.
The paladin's a dervish to the hilt: Paladin 6/Duelist 5 (so far), with high dex (thanks to dancing dervish) and more int than most Paladins.
Why not, I get the feeling from his discriptions of his characters that oppertunities for fun social interactions is his meat and drink.
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Why not, I get the feeling from his discriptions of his characters that oppertunities for fun social interactions is his meat and drink.No,no, you misunderstand. I mean KaeYoss.I usually do. I like having a few extra skill points. Helps build a decent set of skills for social encounters. I mean what Knight in Shining armor can't dance or if needs be discuss intelligently more refined topics then sword play. I mean nothing catches the attention of the damsel fair like being able to talk about something she cares about. Well maybe a fine sonet song to her under the moonlight would do as well, but you need points in perform song and poetry to pull that off.Wait, you're allowed to play a paladin with a positive intelligence modifier? Since when?!?
Nope, not over here.
^_-
Am I allowed to come out of cyberlurking just to e-chuckle?
[
I usually do. I like having a few extra skill points. Helps build a decent set of skills for social encounters. I mean what Knight in Shining armor can't dance or if needs be discuss intelligently more refined topics then sword play. I mean nothing catches the attention of the damsel fair like being able to talk about something she cares about. Well maybe a fine sonet song to her under the moonlight would do as well, but you need points in perform song and poetry to pull that off.
You charmer, you! :)
You charmer, you! :)[
I usually do. I like having a few extra skill points. Helps build a decent set of skills for social encounters. I mean what Knight in Shining armor can't dance or if needs be discuss intelligently more refined topics then sword play. I mean nothing catches the attention of the damsel fair like being able to talk about something she cares about. Well maybe a fine sonet song to her under the moonlight would do as well, but you need points in perform song and poetry to pull that off.
I figure why can't Prince Charming be a good theme for a paladin?
Why must he always be a sombre righteous killing machine...well then again there is something charming about a brooding death dealer with a cause....
I have played fighters, Barbarians, and clerics before, but have never played a paladin before. I am currently playing a rogue with beta rules (currently converting to core rulebook). My DM is starting up a 1 - 15 core rulebook campaign using High Fantasy point buy. I am looking for advice on what others have found to be beneficial to paladins as opposed to what isn't in terms of feats, skill ranks, stats, etc.I agree with the other posters who stated that the DM's campaign will greatly influence your paladin choices.
* Lots of interaction? Good charisma and charisma-based skill choices
* Lots of wilderness stuff? Worth considering the bonded mount and mounted combat feats.
* Dungeon-focused? You will want to emphasize your combat abilities and feats that improve your channeling and lay on handsLet's assume a dungeon-focused Paladin, human, 20 point buy.
Strength 16, +3 mod, 10 points.
Dexterity 10, +0 mod, 0 points.
Constitution 12, +1 mod, 2 points.
Intelligence 10, +0 mod, 0 points.
Wisdom 13, +1 mod, 3 points.
Charisma 16, +3 mod, 5 points (used ability boost)This character will be able to fight well in melee and has a good enough Charisma to power all the class abilities. His Wisdom is adequate to cast all Paladin spells as he levels with just one stat boost later. I would have liked a higher Constitution but with all of his healing, 12 is probably adequate.
Feat-wise, I would take weapon focus and exotic weapon: bastard sword. Hitting more often for more damage is a good thing. This will make your paladin a very capable warrior early on, which is frankly his main job until the higher level abilities come online.
Skills, I would take Heal, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive.
On a serious note for this build, I personally love toughness at level 1. That 3 hit point boost for a guy likely to be the primary focus of the villians bile could prove very handy.
I know logically the bastard sword isn't worth the feat...but I do so love rolling a d10 so I'm totally on board with that idea.
But seriously find out the type of game you are heading into. And it doesn't hurt to have an idea of what your group will consist of. A paladin can make a great face man for the group, but if you have a bard or cleric they might do that and you might need to focus skills and feats elsewhere. On the same hand if you don't have a party cleric you might need to put some effort into supporting the party healer, or heck be the party healer. Paladins are very strong healers now and it is possible to be the main healer as one. Though the opening levels that is tough.
1. His Wisdom is adequate to cast all Paladin spells as he levels with just one stat boost later.
2. Feat-wise, I would take weapon focus and exotic weapon: bastard sword. Hitting more often for more damage is a good thing.
1. In Pathfinder, Wisdom no longer has any bearing on paladin spells; Charisma is the only relevant stat.
2. As Thurgon pointed out, take bastard sword only if you like the image; it's basically a "fluff" feat. A mean increase of 1 point of damage isn't going to make any discernable difference in game play, whereas something like Power Attack, Two-Weapon Fighting, or Shield Bash might actually affect combat.
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In Pathfinder, Wisdom no longer has any bearing on paladin spells; Charisma is the only relevant stat.
This one change more than anything really in my mind has allowed Paladins to become much broader and deeper characters. Instead of being forced into a pretty "cookie-cutter" stat build just to have enough strength to fight, wisdom to cast spells, and charisma to be paladiny you never really could branch out much further. Now with the focus on just charisma as the big stat, Paladins can become a whole lot more.
I'd like to try to build a dex based Paladin of Abadar with an awesome magical crossbow and the crossbow mastery feat sometime.
I want to thank everyone for their great advice. We will be playing Legacy of Fire and the only info my DM is imparting to us is the LoF players guide. It looks like the other members of the party will consist of wizard and a rogue. We will most likely have an NPC Cleric of Sarenrae. My DM recommended that I avoid the schimitar as he would prefer that the cleric use that as his or her weapon [It has been my experience that the Magic Item karma gods usually reward players for doing what the DM prefers :)]
I was thinking of going with the following stats:
Str 15
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 16 (bumping that up to 18 because of being human)
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I want to thank everyone for their great advice. We will be playing Legacy of Fire and the only info my DM is imparting to us is the LoF players guide. It looks like the other members of the party will consist of wizard and a rogue. We will most likely have an NPC Cleric of Sarenrae. My DM recommended that I avoid the schimitar as he would prefer that the cleric use that as his or her weapon [It has been my experience that the Magic Item karma gods usually reward players for doing what the DM prefers :)]
I was thinking of going with the following stats:
Str 15
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 16 (bumping that up to 18 because of being human)
Why no scimitar? I've never been in a group where having the same weapon as another character was frowned on....
Improved Crit. Yummy!
That's one adjective that I would never in a million years have associated with that noun... ;)
Why no scimitar? I've never been in a group where having the same weapon as another character was frowned on....I want to thank everyone for their great advice. We will be playing Legacy of Fire and the only info my DM is imparting to us is the LoF players guide. It looks like the other members of the party will consist of wizard and a rogue. We will most likely have an NPC Cleric of Sarenrae. My DM recommended that I avoid the schimitar as he would prefer that the cleric use that as his or her weapon [It has been my experience that the Magic Item karma gods usually reward players for doing what the DM prefers :)]
I was thinking of going with the following stats:
Str 15
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 16 (bumping that up to 18 because of being human)
We have always found it hard to determine who gets an item that two or more characters can use equally well. For example, if the NPC Cleric is a martial cleric, and we find that first +1 schimitar, who should get it? (Of course I would probably have an edge (no pun intended) over an NPC character). We usually make those that can justify using an item to make a roll for it.
How do you resolve these types of situations in your group?
We have always found it hard to determine who gets an item that two or more characters can use equally well. For example, if the NPC Cleric is a martial cleric, and we find that first +1 schimitar, who should get it? (Of course I would probably have an edge (no pun intended) over an NPC character). We usually make those that can justify using an item to make a roll for it.How do you resolve these types of situations in your group?
Yeah, just roll for it if the players can't think of some other way to deal. Quick and fair.
Wait, you're allowed to play a paladin with a positive intelligence modifier? Since when?!?
Since the guy who insisted on playing over-stereotyped characters had a nasty accident they couldn't convict me for.
We have always found it hard to determine who gets an item that two or more characters can use equally well. For example, if the NPC Cleric is a martial cleric, and we find that first +1 schimitar, who should get it? (Of course I would probably have an edge (no pun intended) over an NPC character). We usually make those that can justify using an item to make a roll for it.
How do you resolve these types of situations in your group?
In my current group, it is usually decided on who has the most need for it, or who has been "shorted" or "generous" in magic distribution.
Or, the casters enchant/enhance non loot weapons until they are at the same level as the loot weapons.
If all else fails, we roll a die for it.
Also, if there is a lot of characters that use the same type of weapon (especially common weapons like scimitars in the LoF setting), the GM (usually me) will change a few of the weapons of the bad guys to make a fairer distribution.
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We have always found it hard to determine who gets an item that two or more characters can use equally well. For example, if the NPC Cleric is a martial cleric, and we find that first +1 schimitar, who should get it? (Of course I would probably have an edge (no pun intended) over an NPC character). We usually make those that can justify using an item to make a roll for it.
How do you resolve these types of situations in your group?
It really depends on the group. The groups I enjoy (and generally stick with) hand out treasure based on a combination of who can make the most use of it and who's come up short in previous loot hand outs. When there's a serious disagreement it sometimes takes some time to decide, but it's never been a huge issue.
Some groups "charge" other group members for items they take by handing them smaller portions of the treasure or making them pay other party members for truly valuable items.
But when the competition is between an NPC and a PC that can use the same item equally well, there's never any contest - the PC gets the item. To limit PC choices for NPC glory is...well...unfathomable to me. I would rather the cleric of Sarenrae wield a sharp rock than limit PC choices in that manner.
Since the guy who insisted on playing over-stereotyped characters had a nasty accident they couldn't convict me for.
Hehe, I was so disappointed you didn't come back to the thread! I suppose you play wizards with social skills too. For shame!
Why no scimitar? I've never been in a group where having the same weapon as another character was frowned on....I want to thank everyone for their great advice. We will be playing Legacy of Fire and the only info my DM is imparting to us is the LoF players guide. It looks like the other members of the party will consist of wizard and a rogue. We will most likely have an NPC Cleric of Sarenrae. My DM recommended that I avoid the schimitar as he would prefer that the cleric use that as his or her weapon [It has been my experience that the Magic Item karma gods usually reward players for doing what the DM prefers :)]
I was thinking of going with the following stats:
Str 15
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 16 (bumping that up to 18 because of being human)We have always found it hard to determine who gets an item that two or more characters can use equally well. For example, if the NPC Cleric is a martial cleric, and we find that first +1 schimitar, who should get it? (Of course I would probably have an edge (no pun intended) over an NPC character). We usually make those that can justify using an item to make a roll for it.
How do you resolve these types of situations in your group?
You could go with Khopesh, it's pretty yummy too.
Since the guy who insisted on playing over-stereotyped characters had a nasty accident they couldn't convict me for.Hehe, I was so disappointed you didn't come back to the thread! I suppose you play wizards with social skills too. For shame!
I'm not here that often any more. Partly because my interest is waning in general, partly because I don't like some of the developments here.
And I'll play everything if it promises to be fun!
absolutely go with a scimitar even if you have to take the cleric's leavings.
by level five you can cast holy weapon & imbue your weapon with keeness, this automatically confirms a crit on every roll of 15+.
if you two hand power attack it's insane damage.
by level five you can cast holy weapon & imbue your weapon with keeness, this automatically confirms a crit on every roll of 15+.
I believe that the spell you are referring to is Bless Weapon. And Bless Weapon does not auto confirm crits if you are using a weapon that has enhancement that affect crits, like keen and vorpal.
ah, so it is.
auto-confirmation has to wait until level 9 & improved critical then.
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ah, so it is.
auto-confirmation has to wait until level 9 & improved critical then.
I did some math a while ago and came to the conclusion that keenness and improved critical are greatly overrated for scimitars. You don't crit that much more often than with a longsword, and the latter actually deals the more powerful crits... the tables turn if you add a huge static bonus to the damage to be multiplied on a crit. Even then you need something like a +7 to damage and Improved Crit to break even.
Meanwhile, adding a "shocking" to your blade instead of a "keen" does a lot more damage overall, and does not rely on statistically rare events. For a paladin, "holy" is an awesome choice too, especially since you can put it on your bonded weapon when you're facing evil bad guys.
I'm actually playing a paladin of Sarenrae in our upcoming Legacy of Fire campaign, and I'm going for a long scimitar (=longword) rather than the regular one for the reasons detailed above.
Disclaimer: Since I'm not interested in performance above, say, level 12, the above evaluation is only intended for lower levels. I'm sure crits become much more important once you add all those crit feats like stunning critical.
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if you two hand power attack it's insane damage.
If you're going two-handed, you might as well use a falchion or a curve blade instead. But then, you could instead go for the good old greatsword and do even more damage.
I was actually a bit disappointed that they didn't change the greatsword's unchallenged superiority in damage-dealing in Pathfinder. A 2d6 maul would have been nice, for example. I like how sword-and-board fighters can choose among heavy mace, longsword, morning star, battle axe and warhammer with almost no drawbacks.