I'm having a bit of a bust up at the mo' with my playing group over initiative. Frankly I'm bored of it, I'm more intrested in playing the game than chucking bits of oddly shaped plastic around, so I thought I would ask how othres handle it.
At the mo' we run with the players rolling for each player each round and the DM doing the same for each block of critters. IMO this is labor intensive and favours the players slightly. The suggestion of running it with RAW was made, tried and the complaints were made.
The complaints mainly revolved about fighting by rota and players enjoying the uncertainty whereas the DM liked it cos there was less bookkeeping.
What do others do and why please?
I'm having a bit of a bust up at the mo' with my playing group over initiative. Frankly I'm bored of it, I'm more intrested in playing the game than chucking bits of oddly shaped plastic around, so I thought I would ask how othres handle it.
At the mo' we run with the players rolling for each player each round and the DM doing the same for each block of critters. IMO this is labor intensive and favours the players slightly. The suggestion of running it with RAW was made, tried and the complaints were made.
The complaints mainly revolved about fighting by rota and players enjoying the uncertainty whereas the DM liked it cos there was less bookkeeping.
What do others do and why please?
We stick with the roll for players and for each block of monsters (say if cleric leading skeletons, skeletons get one roll, cleric gets his own). we do this purely because it gives every player a chance to be first off the mark sometimes, makes the combats a bit more dynamic, uncertain, less "by the book". Only once per encounter and its made easy to track using that GM Tools magnetic tracker that paizo sell.
Plus it brings in interesting situations where if only someone can get highest initiative to do a certain something thats really needed to turn the fight your way. As an individual you cannot keep you eye on the ball 24/7 and never make a mistake, so why should you always go first in a combat situation is my take on it.
In the groups I play in we roll once. We like it for its simplicity and the seriously reduced book-keeping. Anything to speed up combat, neh? ;-)
You always have the option to delay actions, ready actions and such to change the order of initiative...
My 2 cp.
|
I roll once per encounter, "named" NPCs and monsters get their own roll, while groups of identical rank-and-file mooks all go on a one roll per group.
I have one of my players armed with GAMEMASTERY COMBAT PAD and pencils - his job is to track initiative and effects. Saves me some hassle, and he gets to play with fun toys. :)
|
Nothing annoys me more that players wanting to re-roll init every round, citing arguments about it being more 'realistic'. It makes no statistical difference, breaks a number of other areas of the game and greatly increases book-keeping.
Keep combat rules simple and abstract and let the DM add the flavour.
So, roll at the start for the players, one roll shared for all the mooks and PCs henchmen, and specific NPC enemies get a roll.
Nothing annoys me more that players wanting to re-roll init every round, citing arguments about it being more 'realistic'. It makes no statistical difference, breaks a number of other areas of the game and greatly increases book-keeping.
Keep combat rules simple and abstract and let the DM add the flavour.
So, roll at the start for the players, one roll shared for all the mooks and PCs henchmen, and specific NPC enemies get a roll.
Definitely agree, once per encounter to me is better as you still have the refocus options etc. If your on the back foot its hard to get back from it, hence refocus.
What do others do and why please?
We currently play Hackmaster.
Hackmaster default is roll a d10 each round for every combatant and add weapon speed/spell casting times.
We use the old 1st edition system.
Every round:
The nominated party member rolls a d6.
The DM rolls a d6.
High number wins. That team goes first. If it's the same number it's simultaneous.
It is so fun. There's a lot of excitement before the roll. The only change is you need a party caller.
I should point out that this both introduces uncertainty AND reduces bookkeeping. (Proving yet again that the original method was better than all the 'innovations' that followed.)
|
|
Definitely agree, once per encounter to me is better as you still have the refocus options etc. If your on the back foot its hard to get back from it, hence refocus.Nothing annoys me more that players wanting to re-roll init every round, citing arguments about it being more 'realistic'. It makes no statistical difference, breaks a number of other areas of the game and greatly increases book-keeping.
Keep combat rules simple and abstract and let the DM add the flavour.
So, roll at the start for the players, one roll shared for all the mooks and PCs henchmen, and specific NPC enemies get a roll.
One rule I do like, but don't use (for simplicity) is from Stargate/Spycraft where certain actions/events modify your initiative count. From memory, if you are caught in an explosion it reduces your initiative count by 4. If you go below 0 then you only get a partial action at the end of the round and then your init increases by 10.
What do others do and why please?
Roll only once per encounter.
To spice it up people can delay (even) into the start of the next round or ready an action for a predetermined event.3E used refocus as well, which would allow you to change your initiative roll to a natural 20, but with the new delay rule it became obsolete.
We have not had initiative by round since 2E, and frankly there is enough to see to during combat to need to worry about initiative too.
|
What do others do and why please?We use the old 1st edition system.
Every round:
The nominated party member rolls a d6.
The DM rolls a d6.High number wins. That team goes first. If it's the same number it's simultaneous.
It is so fun. There's a lot of excitement before the roll. The only change is you need a party caller.
With respect, I would like to point out—that is not the old 1st edition system, unless it is an old 1st edition Hackmaster system?
In 1st edition, high number does not go first. Low number on a d6 goes first. Any roll of 1 or 2 may indicate surprise. And in true 1st edition form, the players roll for the creatures, and the GM rolls for the players! Just sayin...
With respect, I would like to point out—that is not the old 1st edition system, unless it is an old 1st edition Hackmaster system?
In 1st edition, high number does not go first. Low number on a d6 goes first. Any roll of 1 or 2 may indicate surprise. And in true 1st edition form, the players roll for the creatures, and the GM rolls for the players! Just sayin...
DMG 1st edtion Pg. 62 under initative
"Again, a d6 is rolled, and the scores for the two parties are compared. . . The highest of the two rolls is said to possess the initative for that melee round. . . Possession of initiative allows the individuals to take action or reaction as desired."
I should also point out that those ellipses are Gygax addressing the very issues in this post.
-Campbell
With 3.5, I used a D6 or D10 for initiative, I felt there was too much variation in the results. Having said that, I still rolled for it only once per encounter. Rolling each round would make it too long imo and how would delaying work? (I guess you miss your action completely if you don't take it in the previous round?)
I can see where it might be fun to use a D6 each round for the good vs the bad guys, but it doesn't account for individual differences in initiative. Do we ignore Dex, feat, and trait adjustments to initiative? And how do they translate to work with a D6?
It's something to think about anyway, I like hearing about variations, even though they may not be good for my group.
|
Have your players pre roll (15) d20 rolls. For initiative, the lowest goes score goes first. You just go down the list and use the numbers not only for initiative, but for skill checks and saves as well. Check off each used number in order, this way, if a player brings in a pre rolled sheet with all numbers 13 and higher (highly suspicious), they can really hurt themselves for initiative.
By the time you use up these 15 rolls, the game session is probably over.
Just an idea...
Not sure about your group but with mine half the time the players aren't ready for their action even when they have a nice predictable initiative order. We get enough combats in that everyone more or less gets a chance to go first. Those with improved initiative tend to be go first much more often which is expected.
If your players really want to roll each round and they have their stuff together then maybe put the burden of tracking it on a trusted player though so you can focus on your job. I used to do this even when initiative was set each combat.
I can see where it might be fun to use a D6 each round for the good vs the bad guys, but it doesn't account for individual differences in initiative. Do we ignore Dex, feat, and trait adjustments to initiative? And how do they translate to work with a D6?
Those differences don't exist in 1st edition. :-)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
One GM I had used an interesting twist on Initiative.
He would have each player go off in reverse initiative. That means the slowest person went off first.
People with higher initiatives could give up their normal full round action and do a standard action on someone's turn. It made disrupting spell casters allot easier and the rogue with Imp Init was truly scary.
Thanks for the responses. Please keep them comming. I personally want a single initiative check but I'm using my Diplomacy Skill...
An interesting idea I had before was.
Find/Buy a bunch of colore stones or tokens. At the beginning of each round, or encounter if you wish, have each player and creature pick up a token/stone.
You then randomly draw a card from a deck of cards. The cards are just a list of each color in different orders.
So Johnny WarBlaster picked up the blue stone.
Amanda Higginsdown picked up the green stone.
The shy goblin warchanter picked up the red stone.
The DM then draws a card. The card has the following order: red, green, blue.
That's your initiative. The DM doesn't state who goes when at the start of each round. He or she just calls out the color when it's their turn. It makes combat a little more suprising.
This technique requires a good group of players that can think on their feet. If you are new to gaming you don't want to do this, because some people take WAY to long to decide what to do.
The only other flaw in this system, is that it doesn't take someone's initiative modifier into account.