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Situation - high level assassin was hiding in plain sight, invisible, etc. etc. and his enemy had no idea he was there. The PC is 26th level and has seven attacks. He was right behind the guy and waited. On his turn, should he get a sneak attack on every attack, or does he get only two? (he has two weapon fighting) and the rest just normal attacks?...thanks for feedback.
Every attack that meets the qualifications for sneak attack gets the sneak attack dice, all 7 attacks potentially. If his opponent was flat-footed, all attacks. If he was using greater invisibility, all attacks. If he's using regular invisibility, you can argue that only the first one - because then he's visible and no longer causes his opponent to lose his Dex bonus.
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you can argue that only the first one - because then he's visible and no longer causes his opponent to lose his Dex bonus.
Actually it doesn't matter which type of invisibility he has, His first attack is made during the surprise round and has to be a move or a standard action. I.E. without DM fiat he isn't allowed to take more than a single attack. Then the other character will get a chance to roll initiative, but if he doesn't win then he's boned because he'll be flat footed to the assasin until his turn and the assasin can take a full round attack.
If it's regular invisibility he'll only have it during the surprise round, if its greater then he'll still be invisible and unless the other character has blind fight feat, he'll be boned every round.
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Thanks. The Assassin has hide in Plain Sight, but not greater invisibility. Plus the enemy had true seeing. However the PC is a two-weapon fighter, so it seems like he would get two sneak attacks right? Before the rest of his attacks kick in with normal damage.
Well, technically the enemy would be flat-footed for the entire round. I believe that's how it works when you're attacking from a hidden position. The caveat is that you can't go back to hiding without massive penalties on the check. Iterative attacks are supposed to be simultaneous, although it's a little illogical. I would give the bonus on all attacks that round, since he made them from hiding.
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Thanks. The Assassin has hide in Plain Sight, but not greater invisibility. Plus the enemy had true seeing. However the PC is a two-weapon fighter, so it seems like he would get two sneak attacks right? Before the rest of his attacks kick in with normal damage.
Nope; even two-weapon fighting doesn't let you sneak in an extra sneak attack. Essentially, once you make your first attack, the foe knows you're there and is no longer flat-footed after that. It takes things like greater invisibility that prevent a foe from noticing you even after you attack to get in a full round of sneak attacks.
That said... if it's the first round of combat and the assassin wins initiative, the victim is flat footed simply because the assassin goes before him. In this case, and assuming the assassin was in melee range, all 7 attacks would be sneak attacks. You really don't want to get jumped by a high-level sneak attacker and then roll low on initiative.
Nope; even two-weapon fighting doesn't let you sneak in an extra sneak attack. Essentially, once you make your first attack, the foe knows you're there and is no longer flat-footed after that. It takes things like greater invisibility that prevent a foe from noticing you even after you attack to get in a full round of sneak attacks.That said... if it's the first round of combat and the assassin wins initiative, the victim is flat footed simply because the assassin goes before him. In this case, and assuming the assassin was in melee range, all 7 attacks would be sneak attacks. You really don't want to get jumped by a high-level sneak attacker and then roll low on initiative.
So, just to clarify(this did come up in a game I ran a while ago): Yuan-ti using their Camouflage to achieve ridiculously high stealth checks would become visible after the first attack in their full-round attacks, but Yuan-ti using something based off invisibility rather than stealth could get a full set of sneak attacks?
So, just to clarify(this did come up in a game I ran a while ago): Yuan-ti using their Camouflage to achieve ridiculously high stealth checks would become visible after the first attack in their full-round attacks, but Yuan-ti using something based off invisibility rather than stealth could get a full set of sneak attacks?
It would have to be the Greater Invisibility spell, or some effect that specified not becoming visisble when attacking. Ordinary Invisibility and stealthiness only hides you until your first attack is resolved.
What I want to know is why this Epic level Assassin didn't use his Death Attack and potentially be done with it...
Maybe he didn't have 3 previous rounds to study his victim.
Either that, or he was going for the all-time damage record! XD
you can argue that only the first one - because then he's visible and no longer causes his opponent to lose his Dex bonus.Actually it doesn't matter which type of invisibility he has, His first attack is made during the surprise round and has to be a move or a standard action. I.E. without DM fiat he isn't allowed to take more than a single attack. Then the other character will get a chance to roll initiative, but if he doesn't win then he's boned because he'll be flat footed to the assasin until his turn and the assasin can take a full round attack.
If it's regular invisibility he'll only have it during the surprise round, if its greater then he'll still be invisible and unless the other character has blind fight feat, he'll be boned every round.
That's actually a silly technicality of the rules that completely defies common sense. So, when I go first at the start of a fight, I can attack you 7 times unless I surprise you, in which case I can only attack 1 time?
Makes no sense, even if it's RAW.
If I'm playing the assassin then I will say "OK, I make sure not to surprise the guy because I want all 7 attacks."
Even better: "I refocus my initiative to a natural 20 while I remain hidden and haven't actually engaged. Next round, when I go on my turn (something like a 30+ given he's a level 26 assassin) I say 'Boo' to surprise the guy. Once the worthless surprise round is over, he can roll initiative but he'll never beat my 30, so I'll nail him 7 times in the first round while he's still flatfooted."
(yeah, yeah, attack him once on the surprise round so you get 8 flatfooted attacks in all - but saying 'boo' is more comical).
Hmmm, I don't see Refocus in the Pathfinder book. Guess I'll carry that one over from D&D.
In short, there are times when insisting on a surprise round is counter-intuitive and defies simple logic. In those times, throw out the surprise round or simply skip it entirely.
That's actually a silly technicality of the rules that completely defies common sense. So, when I go first at the start of a fight, I can attack you 7 times unless I surprise you, in which case I can only attack 1 time?
No, you can attack 7 times only in you win initiative. Your enemy is flat-footed until he takes his turn the first time. If he is surprised and lose initiative, you act twice (standard+full action) before he lose his flatfooted condition.
Makes no sense, even if it's RAW.If I'm playing the assassin then I will say "OK, I make sure not to surprise the guy because I want all 7 attacks."
You got those 7 attacks only if you win initiative. It doesn't matter if your target is surprised or not.
Suprise + Win initiative = 1+7 attacks flatfootedSuprise + Lose initiative = 1 attacks flatfooted
No Suprise + Win initiative = 7 attacks flatfooted
No Suprise + Lose initiative = 0 attacks flatfooted
Suprising is always better because you have at least one attack flatfooted.
Even better: "I refocus my initiative to a natural 20 while I remain hidden and haven't actually engaged. Next round, when I go on my turn (something like a 30+ given he's a level 26 assassin) I say 'Boo' to surprise the guy. Once the worthless surprise round is over, he can roll initiative but he'll never beat my 30, so I'll nail him 7 times in the first round while he's still flatfooted."(yeah, yeah, attack him once on the surprise round so you get 8 flatfooted attacks in all - but saying 'boo' is more comical).
Hmmm, I don't see Refocus in the Pathfinder book. Guess I'll carry that one over from D&D.
You don't refocus, but you can Delay.
"If you take a delayed action in the next round, before your regular turn comes up, your initiative count rises to that new point in the order of battle, and you do not get your regular action that round."You are acting in the first regular round before anyone.
Though, if you are Delaying "When your new, lower initiative count comes up later in the same round, you can act normally."
Act normally means to me that you can take an standard action, which is the action you are delaying. So no benefit from delaying to the next round in the surprise round.
You know, Initiative has a lot of problems: when a combat actually begins, what happens when a new combatant enters the combat, how is it possible that I am hitted 6 times before I am flat footed no more... but losing the surprise round is not one of them.