Hey all! I've been wondering a lot about this lately, trying to figure out what the best build for an archery-themed character. I've been going over all the different classes and options available, and I'm having a hard time figuring out what the best real option is; while I know that, ultimately, what matters most is the kind of archer I want to play, I do several options available for anyone seeking this class. The choices that I can see are:
1)Straight Archer. Level 1 to level 20, straight archer. Almost certainly best achieved by the Fighter or the Ranger, given the Fighter's bonus feats and the Ranger's Combat Style. However, your options as far as what you can do are more limited than with the other options.
2)Eldritch Knight Archer. Almost certainly a more favorable option than (1) in my opinion, especially considering the new bloodlines. Minimum entry level would be, what...? 6? -If- you used a Wizard feat for Martial proficiency, that is...7 if you take a dip into Fighter, which is almost surely the better option. Just going from memory here, but I think that's right. Draconic Sorcerer gives you a melee claw attack, and that's not a bad thing. Sure you're breaking third-level spells later, pushing your entry level but you're also opening up the possibility of going Dragon Disciple later, should you wish. In addition, you gain access to a good many of the Fighter bonus feats with the Diverse Training ability.
3)Arcane Archer. Very low spell requirements, but pretty steep BAB. Minimum level 7 (I think?) to make requirements for entry at 80. Again, Sorc/Fighter or Sorc/Ranger are probably the best options here, even moreso than EK since you only need first-level spells. AA is certainly MUCH better than it's 3.5 counterpart with new spell advancement and the allowance for bow special abilities to stack with the Enhance Arrows ability.
4)Divine Archer. Cleric or Paladin here. Paladin gets the Smite Evil ability for a ranged attack now, and the Weapon Spirit ability allows you to enchant your bow with some pretty good abilities. Some of the Paladin spells can help out a lot. Cleric is similar, but of course, minus the Smite and add more spells that can improve your attack and damage. If I remember correctly, a Cleric Archer was very viable in 3.5, though I never played one myself.
These are the primary options that I can see. There may be more that I'm missing, and if there are, I'd love to hear them. I've ALWAYS wanted to play a viable archer in D&D, but 3.5 made it difficult to be so. Granted, Pathfinder might've only exacerbated that; I've really not delved deep enough into the math to figure it out. I thought this would be something worth bringing up and discussing, though, as I haven't noticed any other archery-focused threads recently. So...what does everyone think? What do you feel is the best angle to look at archery from and why?
Just a small note on Eldritch Knight Archer - Martial Weapon Proficiency feat won't do the job of qualifying - that only gives a single weapon, and proficiency with all is required.
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Can't say as I see a single best build
If you are playing in Golarion, you should add Vudrani Monk to your list of #1. Flurry with Arrows is pretty awesome, and monk mobility is nothing to sneer at.
Also for spellcasting you might try a Cleric (maybe Holy Warrior) of Erastil, those self buffs from the cleric list are pretty nice, but full spellcasting may take away from the bow focus.
If you want Arcane spellcasting definitely get an Arcane Bond to the Bow, no matter if you are Sorcerer or Wizard (Fine Bards are Arcane casters too).
I'd actually Suggest your choice of...
Barbarian (Rage Strength augments Composite longbows, and Rage powers are some awesome flavor, Higher movement means that you can get into position, and away from the enemies faster, I could see this one insisting that a Longbow IS a classic barbarian two handed weapon)
Fighter (Feats like nothing, stacks better with EK)
Ranger (Classic Bowness, favored enemy Humans comes up all the time, and the dip into Divine Casting means wands of divine spells are always availible easy)
Paladin (Smite is nice, even for 6 levels. If you choose Sorc you suffer from less MAD over Chr)
...at 6 and one level of spellcasting for the prerequisites for Arcane Archer, when you also meet the Eldritch Knight prerequisites you can then dip into that whenever you decide you need spells more then awesome archery (and with bonus access to fighter only feats), and choose whichever one you want to max out.
Actually, you missed one :
Skirmish Archer
Rogue build 1 to 20, with say every other feat being Fleet. Go with a composite shortbow (set for whatever str bonus you have). Max out Acrobatics (and get all the rogue acrobatic abilities and acrobatic feats). You're trading your archery feats for the sneak attack damage. Use the high acrobatics to get around the battlefield and attack from 30 feet away at all times and do sneak attack with each hit.
Just a small note on Eldritch Knight Archer - Martial Weapon Proficiency feat won't do the job of qualifying - that only gives a single weapon, and proficiency with all is required.
Hmm. You're right...I'd forgotten about that aspect of it. That does limit the options slightly, but not enough to be any real concern, in my opinion.
Can't say as I see a single best build
If you are playing in Golarion, you should add Vudrani Monk to your list of #1. Flurry with Arrows is pretty awesome, and monk mobility is nothing to sneer at.
Well...honestly, it's not for a campaign that I'm playing in as of yet. It may end up being Golarion, but it's more than likely going to be a homebrew sort of setting, so I probably wouldn't have access to Vudrani Monk.
Summing up any arcane caster 1/fighter 6/arcane archer 8/eldritch knight 5, 19 BAB, Saves 12F/8R/9W, 16 feats (17 if human), 11th level caster, able to take fighter only feats requiring up to fighter level 11, armor training, and a truck load of archery abilities from arcane archer.
May not be the best, but I think it provides a solid foundation to build on with feat and spell selection.
I think that I would agree with you. It's unfortunate that that leaves you one level away from taking Greater Spec., but everything else the class gets would probably make it worth it.
Actually, you missed one :
Skirmish Archer
Rogue build 1 to 20, with say every other feat being Fleet. Go with a composite shortbow (set for whatever str bonus you have). Max out Acrobatics (and get all the rogue acrobatic abilities and acrobatic feats). You're trading your archery feats for the sneak attack damage. Use the high acrobatics to get around the battlefield and attack from 30 feet away at all times and do sneak attack with each hit.
Huh. That's actually a really neat idea that I totally missed. I mean, I'd thought about a Rogue archer, but not with the idea of that kind of mobility. You could actually combine that with Arcane Trickster and be sneak-attacking from 30 ft. and applying a spell effect to it. Yikes.
Thanks for all the opinions, guys! It's given me a lot to think about. Anybody else wanna offer some tips or pointers?
I see the AA and just start to drool. The ability to toss out Magic, Holy, Flaming, shock, cold arrows at will is pretty major mojo. And phase arrow is just one of those OMG abilities. The cherry on top is you will have 8 levels of spell casting a fly spell and Improved invisibility are huge for a sniper.
Once you have maxed out the AA you will qualify for Eldrich knight and you have only lost 1 BAB.
6 Fighter 1 Wizard 10 AA then EK
No one's mentioned anything like Paladin 2/Bard 8/Arcane Archer 10.
I see the AA and just start to drool. The ability to toss out Magic, Holy, Flaming, shock, cold arrows at will is pretty major mojo. And phase arrow is just one of those OMG abilities. The cherry on top is you will have 8 levels of spell casting a fly spell and Improved invisibility are huge for a sniper.
Once you have maxed out the AA you will qualify for Eldrich knight and you have only lost 1 BAB.
6 Fighter 1 Wizard 10 AA then EK
The thing with that is it would only leave you three levels of EK, which would qualify you for 9th-level fighter feats, when going up to just 8th-level in AA would allow you one more Fighter bonus feat and a higher effective fighter level. Though admittedly, the aligned arrows might be a worthwhile trade-off. I guess that would really come down to personal preference, especially since the extra two levels of fighter would only really net you the extra feat and you still wouldn't qualify for Greater Specialization.
No one's mentioned anything like Paladin 2/Bard 8/Arcane Archer 10.
Hmm...a use of Smite Evil, synergy with the Charisma casting, a fairly good selection of spells, and full AA. Not to mention your Cha bonus to your saves. Yeah, I can see where that would be a good combination. My question, though, is if you take 8 levels of Bard, would it not also be equally viable to take 8 levels of Sorcerer? You'd have a somewhat lower BAB in the end, but you'd also have access to higher level spells and a Sorcerer bloodline; I can think of a couple of them that would be nice to have for this kind of build.
My question, though, is if you take 8 levels of Bard, would it not also be equally viable to take 8 levels of Sorcerer? You'd have a somewhat lower BAB in the end, but you'd also have access to higher level spells and a Sorcerer bloodline; I can think of a couple of them that would be nice to have for this kind of build.
Of course a sorcerer would be a much better caster, but possibly less good as an archer (less BAB, no Inspire Courage).
My question, though, is if you take 8 levels of Bard, would it not also be equally viable to take 8 levels of Sorcerer? You'd have a somewhat lower BAB in the end, but you'd also have access to higher level spells and a Sorcerer bloodline; I can think of a couple of them that would be nice to have for this kind of build.Of course a sorcerer would be a much better caster, but possibly less good as an archer (less BAB, no Inspire Courage).
Good point. I suppose what it would come down to is what you considered more worthwhile. I, personally, might be willing to sacrifice a few points of BAB in order to have access to some of the spells on the Sorcerer list that could be used with Imbue Arrow. Of course, those spells also usually have at least medium range, which is great enough you wouldn't -have- to use an arrow, so...the Bard really might be a better option.