I've spent several months with some associates building the various classes of Kaidan: a Japanese Ghost Story setting.
I'm looking for critiques, ideas, changes you might have of the following...
Many of the classes are essentially straight Pathfinder classes, with some fluff differences and a few class features to help distinctualize them from their straight class counterpart.
For straight class conversions to the Kaidan setting:
Fighter = Ashigaru (peasant soldier) comprise the "enlisted/conscripted" bulk of both the Shogun's army and the provincial forces, as Samurai serve as the officer corps. In Kaidan, as in Japan, only Samurai are allowed to wield Katana and wakizashi long sword/short sword pairing. Most Ashigaru would be limited to Daikyu (long composite bow) and Naginata (glaive spear), perhaps a short sword (not a wakizashi) would be allowed as well. Honor being an attribute one builds based on deeds and promises kept, once a high enough honor is achieved, an Ashigaru could be allowed to carry a katana long sword.
Cleric = Yamabushi, though like Rokugan Shugenja are elementalist priest monks, so not quite the straight cleric conversion. Otherwise no real equivalent here. Some unique powers, feats and spells.
Shaman = Shoten and Miko, actually male and female separate shaman classes with distinct powers separated between the two, following historical Japanese distinctions. Control/contact of nature spirits, healing powers, mediums to contact ancestral spirits and undead.
Rogue = Yakuza, the organized crime element of Kaidan, mostly urban based, consists of members of the Hinin or Tainted (bottom) caste. Much of their skills involve social interation, moreso than actual thievery. They follow their own code of 20 rulings, so in many ways "lawful" to their own sanctions.
Monk = Monk or Sohei. Not sure if I should make Sohei and Monk as separate classes as done in Rokugan OA. I'm thinking of sticking with the straight monk as per Pathfinder RPG rules and not expanding beyond that. Some fluff differences in falling under a particular temple and temple leader. However many sohei temples of Kaidan are proponents to maintaining the Wheel of Life cosmology rules, which forbid the pursuit of enlightenment and escape the reincarnatin cycle of which most Kaidanese are bound and trapped into.
Wizard = Onmyoji Court Wizard, although not necessarily evil, they are almost never good. Onmyoji are controlled by a branch of the Imperial government to prevent powers accessable beyond the Imperial and provincial courts. Divination, Protection, Necromancy and Conjuration/Summoning are their chief arcane schools of practice. Onmyoji feature the ability to contact and summon Shikigami oni-imps (least oni) from the Hell realm as one-task familiars. Shikigami powers improve with longer association with given Onmyoji Wizards.
Sorcerers = Jugondo Sorcerers, divine or nature-spirit blooded are considered outlawed by the Imperial Court. In many ways they serve as the "onmyoji" for the common people being diviners and monster slayers.
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There are three classes of unique builds that fall outside the basic classes of Pathfinder in Kaidan: Samurai, Hatamoto and Ninja.
Samurai - many similarities to Rokugan Samurai, in that each of the houses (15 in Kaidan) each specialize in a feat tree of one particular fighting style - two handed specialists, two weapon defense specialists, two weapon attack specialists, long bow specialists, mounted charging specialists, etc. The ancestral weapon feat is essential to samurai, which are ancestral katana, wakizashi, and/or daikyu long bows that improve as magic weapons and sometimes gain other magic attributes over time, with prayer vigils given by samurai at holy sites. Samurai are their own caste beneath nobles, but above commoners.
Hatamoto - essentially Court Samurai, while in many ways similar to standard samurai, they lack many of the martial skills at higher levels, gaining instead skills in etiquette, court intrigue and other features more attuned with bureaucratic skills. These are a Noble caste class.
Ninja - are spies, assassins, saboteurs and provacateurs in Kaidan society. Though other settings consider then dishonorable, and thus the bottom caste, in Kaidan, they are of the Commoner Caste. At this point, I am working on the premise that their "Ki powers" are really lesser groupings of psionics. There are five ninja clans and each focus on their own specific weapons, infiltration techniques and unique group of psionic powers. None of the more powerful psionic powers are available in Kaidan (teleportation, psionic blast, etc.)
In looking over the above is there anything I should focus on, change, follow a different paradigm or scrap altogether? Ideas anyone?
GP
Reviewing the above, what would you like to see or like not to see in a Japan-based Pathfinder setting?
GP
Fighter = Ashigaru (peasant soldier) comprise the "enlisted/conscripted" bulk of both the Shogun's army and the provincial forces, as Samurai serve as the officer corps. In Kaidan, as in Japan, only Samurai are allowed to wield Katana and wakizashi long sword/short sword pairing. Most Ashigaru would be limited to Daikyu (long composite bow) and Naginata (glaive spear), perhaps a short sword (not a wakizashi) would be allowed as well. Honor being an attribute one builds based on deeds and promises kept, once a high enough honor is achieved, an Ashigaru could be allowed to carry a katana long sword.
I don't believe there was any prohibition on Ashigaru using swords. The Tokugawa period prohibited carrying weapons but it was an era of relative peace. The weapons of the ashigaru were arquebus (teppo), long spear (yari), longbow (yumi) and sword (katana).
Another option for the fighter is the straight translation to bushi (warrior). The 1e bushi class takes the ashigaru and combines it with Toshiro Mifune's scruffy ronin from Yojimbo to create a roguish counterpoint to the noble samurai.
Cleric = Yamabushi, though like Rokugan Shugenja are elementalist priest monks, so not quite the straight cleric conversion. Otherwise no real equivalent here. Some unique powers, feats and spells.
I rather like the Rokugan shugenja class. The use of the 5 Buddhist elements rather than the 5 Taoist elements (gogyo) adds a Buddhist flavour and is a nice counterpoint to the Taoist flavoured onmyoji.
Shaman = Shoten and Miko, actually male and female separate shaman classes with distinct powers separated between the two, following historical Japanese distinctions. Control/contact of nature spirits, healing powers, mediums to contact ancestral spirits and undead.
Sounds right. The shrine maidens, miko, were supposed to act as mediums between the humans and kami.
Rogue = Yakuza, the organized crime element of Kaidan, mostly urban based, consists of members of the Hinin or Tainted (bottom) caste. Much of their skills involve social interation, moreso than actual thievery. They follow their own code of 20 rulings, so in many ways "lawful" to their own sanctions.
The bakuto were the tattooed criminals of the feudal period who were the forerunners of the yakuza. Most samurai fiction depicts them as mainly involved in gambling and having their own codes of honour. The chohan (Japanese gambling game where you have to predict either an odd or even roll on 2 dice) scene is quite popular in chambara.
Monk = Monk or Sohei. Not sure if I should make Sohei and Monk as separate classes as done in Rokugan OA. I'm thinking of sticking with the straight monk as per Pathfinder RPG rules and not expanding beyond that....
I don't think the D&D Monk fits that well with Japan. The fighting monks of Japan were the sohei who were armed combatants rather than unarmed. The naginata is the iconic weapon of the sohei.
As for samurai and ninja, I agree. Any casual puchaser will be expecting classes for both. The hatamoto is pretty much the Rokugan courtier class. I'm not sure that it has enough to make it more than a substandard bard outside of court based adventures.
I am not opposed to using a Bushi class vs. Ashigaru, but I feel no reason to rely on past iterations of D&D oriental settings, or relying on classes as invented by Gary Gygax (no such thing as Wu Jen, for example) to have anything to do with Kaidan. In many ways the fighters of Yojimbo were more ronin samurai, than something else to be called "bushi". Though I'm not opposed to the idea.
I do want to divorce some of the ideas of an oriental campaign with the invented tropes created in Rokugan - not my favorite setting. Rokugan has Shugenja in the same caste as Samurai. In Kaidan as in Japan, only the samurai comprise the Samurai Caste. Yamabushi (Kaidan's shugenja) are of the Commoner Caste.
In many ways the Yamabushi of Japan, were outcasts to society, practiced a mixture of Taoist and Shinto beliefs with some Buddhist concepts thrown in. And at various times were outlawed by the state. They are much the same in Kaidan in this way. I never said, however that Yamabushi were Taoist based rather than Buddhist based in use of Elemental magic - and I need to make a decision in that regard.
However, its important to realize that neither OA or Rokugan is Open Game Content, so I am reluctant to porting the OA Shugenja verbatim to Kaidan. I kind of want to reinvent them. Since Japanese Yamabushi differ to Rokugan shugenja, I'm wanting to follow historical aspects more.
I like the take on Bakuto as my rogues, instead of Yakuza, since Yakuza is actually an organization of the Tokugawa period which is at least 200 years after the period that Kaidan is set. Bakuto may be more appropriate for Kaidan, in this way.
In Japan, Hatamoto were the Shogun's Samurai and were very much a martial class rather than a courtier class. Since Kaidan's imperial court is a mostly undead and evil one, if not simply brutal and self-absorbed. I see most adventures at court to be a conflictive thing, as Court adventures are really outside the Kaidan game itself. This is another way that Kaidan differs from Rokugan.
Regarding bards, Japan had many Biwa and Samisen playing Monks that traveled the country retelling old tales - the Tale of Genji for example. I see a Bard class resembling a monastic musician as above, rather than a Court Bard / Courtier.
Since I've pretty much tackled the Samurai and Ninja classes first in Kaidan, I see little need to expand on what I have for them. My concern here are those classes I've yet to complete in development - which are all mentioned in the first post...
Oh, and regarding weapons, I don't want to bring in gunpowder weapons to Kaidan, since the setting is more 12th to early 14th century Japan, the Portuguese haven't arrived and there are no arquebus in Kaidan.
Remember that Kaidan is a dark fantasy Japan-like setting, but is not Japan, and definitely not Rokugan, or Kara-tur or any other previous D&D oriental setting.
One last point, I do agree with you that Pathfinder Monks are really more like Shaolin Monks of China, and not of Japan. Perhaps I could give Monks more weapon skills, so to better match with Sohei. However, because the Pathfinder Monk is so well developed, I am reluctant to keep them out of Kaidan. Also I want to place some use with standard martial artists as a rogue/fighter variant of the Commmoner caste, perhaps placing the PF Monk into something of that regard.
This I think is my toughest decision right now on how to move forward.
Thanks for the advice, nice to bounce these ideas off someone!
GP
gamer-printer wrote:
Fighter = Ashigaru (peasant soldier) comprise the "enlisted/conscripted" bulk of both the Shogun's army and the provincial forces, as Samurai serve as the officer corps. In Kaidan, as in Japan, only Samurai are allowed to wield Katana and wakizashi long sword/short sword pairing. Most Ashigaru would be limited to Daikyu (long composite bow) and Naginata (glaive spear), perhaps a short sword (not a wakizashi) would be allowed as well. Honor being an attribute one builds based on deeds and promises kept, once a high enough honor is achieved, an Ashigaru could be allowed to carry a katana long sword.I don't believe there was any prohibition on Ashigaru using swords. The Tokugawa period prohibited carrying weapons but it was an era of relative peace. The weapons of the ashigaru were arquebus (teppo), long spear (yari), longbow (yumi) and sword (katana).
Another option for the fighter is the straight translation to bushi (warrior). The 1e bushi class takes the ashigaru and combines it with Toshiro Mifune's scruffy ronin from Yojimbo to create a roguish counterpoint to the noble samurai.
My idea, Kazu-uchi( = mass-product, or inferior katana) can be used by Ashigaru.
Monk = Monk or Sohei. Not sure if I should make Sohei and Monk as separate classes as done in Rokugan OA. I'm thinking of sticking with the straight monk as per Pathfinder RPG rules and not expanding beyond that. Some fluff differences in falling under a particular temple and temple leader. However many sohei temples of Kaidan are proponents to maintaining the Wheel of Life cosmology rules, which forbid the pursuit of enlightenment and escape the reincarnatin cycle of which most Kaidanese are bound and trapped into.
Buddhist monk as divine caster don't exist?
Also, in Kaidan, how are Rangers (Matagi? Nobushi?), Barbarians (Emishi, Hayato, Sanka, and so on), Druids (I think they are suitable for Yamabushi,too), and Paladins?
Call the Monk a Budoka and I don't think you have a problem. Okinawa and the Ryukyu islands is where karate is supposed to have developed in reaction to a sword ban first by King Shoshin (the Ryukyus were a separate kingdom) and then by the Satsuma clan after the invasion in 1609. The use of peasant tools as weapons, such as the sickle (kama), is also attributed to this ban.
I also think a samurai courtier class is a good concept representing the "pen" side of bun-bu-ichi (pen and sword in accord). The samurai placed great value on courtly skills which most samurai classes don't represent.
Maybe a buffing/de-buffing class like the Warlord might suit for a courtier class. Stirring words to inspire comrades, put downs for foes.
Jim.
A mass produced katana available to Commoner ashigaru/bushi sounds like an excellent way to get swords into more than just samurai hands. After reading some information on the real Yakuza, I see that some bosses, were granted the wearing of the daisho (katana/wakizashi) as a means to curb gang fights over peddlar control - but I didn't want to allow ancestral katana's into non-samurai hands.
If I develop the Sohei monk, as I originally planned, they would have access to lesser divine spells, say first spell access at fourth level, and nothing higher than fourth or fifth level priest spells. Then give them training in ashigaru light armor, and naginata, with some training in ki-powered monk fighting - in every way less than a true monk or true ashigaru.
I really hadn't given much thought to ranger (Matagi/Nobushi), but I really like that idea. It was kind of a hole in my class line up, so I'll do some research and see what I can come with - thank you, for that idea!
I have Jommen, as race of human barbarians, predecessors to Kaidanese on the islands of their home. Something akin to the Ainu, which there are a barbarian class -- I will also look into Emishi/Hayato/Sanka associations.
I like the Budoka idea as well - creating fighting clubs across Kaidan's large cities with some rivalry and contest/conflict between clubs, all based on the PF Monk. Good direction here...
The Warlord, hmmm, while I like the idea, I see the Tome of Secrets forf Pathfinder of Adamant Entertainment has developed a Warlord, as part of that splat - I may have to speak with him, get an early idea on that class, to use it to base, such a class among the noble Kuge of Kaidan.
That one reminds me of the bureaucrat that instigated the act causing the incident known as the 47 ronin.
Good thought, all, thank you!
GP
Buddhist monk as divine caster don't exist?Also, in Kaidan, how are Rangers (Matagi? Nobushi?), Barbarians (Emishi, Hayato, Sanka, and so on), Druids (I think they are suitable for Yamabushi,too), and Paladins?
I agree that certain sects might suit Druids or Clerics as well as Shaman. I'm not sure that bandits (nobushi) would be Rangers rather than Warriors or Fighters but Matagi seem like ideal candidates particularly if they're fashioned after Ashitaka and the Emishi in Princess Mononoke.
As for the paladin, I think the sohei makes a good stand in or variant paladin.
This was exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for, I wanted to hear some Pathfinder DM/Player points of view. Thank you!
Did some quick research... I like the Matagi, especially as one of the wilder Kaidanese dwelling in the border country around the Emishi barbarian territories. Horse riding mounted archers, with their own swords who fight using guerilla tactics, dwelling in the mountains of northern Kaidan. So Matagi work well as Kaidan Rangers.
With Shaman serving the Shinto role, I'd rather give something else to the Emishi barbarians, so something like a druid-priest sounds interesting.
And I agree with Yojimbouk, that Sohei makes for a nice variant paladin.
However, in Kaidan that makes for an interesting dichotomy. A lawful good sohei warrior monk serves the Zao Temple which follows the Imperial Doctrine that all sentient beings (of Kaidan) are bound to an endless cycle of reincarnations called the Wheel of Life, or Sorrowful World. In Buddhism the goal is transendance through enlightenment and to escape the Wheel of Life. To the Imperial Court seeking the path to enlightenment is heresy to the Wheel of Life religion and its state church, the Temples of Zao, zealously support this doctrine. Which in of itself is evil. It adds some dark fun to Kaidan - I like it!
I also see a few hidden, heretical temples away from the capital that secretly seek the path to enlightenment, with an Inkyo (enlightened being) as the temple leader helping others to find the path. If discovered the Shogunate will bring war to the temple, however - an adventure idea for certain.
Thanks for the ideas!
GP
While I don't have the information at hand, I do remember reading that some "ninja" families may have been samurai caste. They served mainly as military scouts or as bodyguards.
After the consolidation of the Japanese empire under Toyotomi Hideyoshi, then the officially made Shogunate under Tokugawa Ieyasu, which ended the Sengoku (Warring States Period), there were 500,000 samurai who were nolonger employed, since it became a time of relative peace. Those 500K people needed to find some form of income.
Many of these unemployed samurai became roving bands of bandits, formed the rise of the Yakuza, and the formation of some lesser samurai houses to ninja houses occurred.
Although Kaidan is a fantasy based setting and not Japan, it does follow some historical references to make a viable setting. Kaidan is compared to the real historical timeline, as sitting after the end of the Genpei War (1180 to 1185) up to the Muromachi Shogunate which preceded the Sengoku Period. Thus Tokugawa Japan is about 200 years after the period that Kaidan is set. Thus those Japanese institutions created during the Tokugawa period is mostly outside what is Kaidan.
Some history points out that Ninja clans were born during the Heian Period 650 AD to 1180 AD. I see Kaidan's Ninja as more of this earlier development of Ninja.
Again, however, Kaidan is fantasy, so I am borrowing some ideas and institutions of Tokugawa Japan to make a more interesting setting, especially the Yakuza. Kaidan is essentially the early feudal period of Japan, with an emphasis on mythical Japan.
GP
Ok. That makes sense to go for the earlier shinobi roots.
Since it is a fantasy setting, are you going to incorperate non-human races? Specifically, are you going to adapt the standard races or develop new ones?
As to the monk class, they could be the Bhikkhu (or wandering buddhist monk) and represent the influx of a relatively new religion to the land.
Of the races of Kaidan, I'm looking at it two different ways. Reflecting Oriental Adventures, many are already familiar with the races in that book and I intend to use some of them. In many ways, however, some of these races could be reformed standard Pathfinder races. I may offer both options or with each race listed, point to an alternate standard PF race that could apply.
Humans include both Kaidanese and Barbarian Emishi clans in the wilderness areas. Any other human races are considered "gaijin" or outsiders.
Spirit Folk are the half human born races with one parent being a divine or nature spirit. OA provides three versions, while Kaidan only uses two. Spirit Folk of the bamboo groves as n earth spirit derived race and those of the river or sea, as water spirit derived race. Once could probably use elves or half-elves to fulfill this role as well.
Korobokuru are barbarian dwarves, though more barbarian than dwarf dwelling in mountain cave systems, with a culture similar to Emishi human barbarians which they have an affinity with. Of course standard Pathfinder Dwarves could easily fit this role, as long as one dumps most of the metal arms and armor of the traditional dwarf.
Hengeyokai, as in OA, are the animal barbarian shape-changers (there are lots of shape-changers in Japanese lore.) All can assume a human form, though their standard forms are a mix human/animal: badger, fox, rat, bear, crane, carp, dog, cat, and several others. There is no comparable Pathfinder race that fits this role.
Two new races I am adding to the Kaidan racial lineup:
Ryujin, are hengeyokai of the sea, with a partial sea dragon form at higher levels, otherwise in forms of: sea turtle, squid, shark, dolphin, jelly fish, sea bass, etc. As the hengeyokai, Ryujin have no Pathfinder couterpart.
Half-Oni are very much like half-orcs in appearance and attitude, with the addition of two short horns coming from their foreheads. Oni Demon-spirits have their agenda to overthrow the Kaidan regima and burn the empire to ashes. Many Oni agents escape or are sent from the Hell realm for various plots in Kaidan. Appearing in human form they often have relationships with humans. The children born of this union are Half-Oni.
Thus far, those are my races of Kaidan, though the list may yet grow.
GP
For a teaser, I have posted thumbnails only of my Races of Kaidan art for the six races included thus far.
Enjoy!
GP
With Shaman serving the Shinto role, I'd rather give something else to the Emishi barbarians, so something like a druid-priest sounds interesting.
Concerning Ainu's culture, Yukar(oral Saga) is well known. Emishi tribes could have Bard(Oratory performance) tradition, too?
For a teaser, I have posted thumbnails only of my Races of Kaidan art for the six races included thus far.
Enjoy!
Races of Kaidan art
GP
Good Arts!
However, are Vanara and Nezumi gone?
I've always had a question about korobokuru. In legend of Ainu, Korobokurus are peaceful, stealthy, and nature-rerated folk. Why are they Dwarf-variant? They seem to be akin to Gnome.
Spirit Folk are the half human born races with one parent being a divine or nature spirit. OA provides three versions, while Kaidan only uses two. Spirit Folk of the bamboo groves as n earth spirit derived race and those of the river or sea, as water spirit derived race. Once could probably use elves or half-elves to fulfill this role as well.
There should be a snow spirit folk whose mother is a yuki-onna.
Hengeyokai, as in OA, are the animal barbarian shape-changers (there are lots of shape-changers in Japanese lore.) All can assume a human form, though their standard forms are a mix human/animal: badger, fox, rat, bear, crane, carp, dog, cat, and several others. There is no comparable Pathfinder race that fits this role.
Japanese folklore has that certain animals can take human form: fox (kitsune), cat (bakeneko), badger (mujina), raccoon dog (tanuki), snake (hebi), wolf (okami), spider (jorogumo) and dog (inugami). Their roles seem to vary from mischievous tricksters to monsters.
Ryujin, are hengeyokai of the sea, with a partial sea dragon form at higher levels, otherwise in forms of: sea turtle, squid, shark, dolphin, jelly fish, sea bass, etc. As the hengeyokai, Ryujin have no Pathfinder couterpart.
From Japanese folklore I know of 2 sea related creatures: the same-bito (sharkmen) and ningyo (merpeople).
Jim.
I love the idea of Korobokuru being Gnomes than Dwarves, it actually makes a lot more sense.
Regarding Vanara, that's really an Indian being, and not a Japanese one, and I sort of want to divorce the idea of Oriental Adventures too much oriental generalizations, rather than a specifically Japanese one.
Nezumi... The only reference to goblin rats in Japanese folklore, that I am aware of is Lafcadio Hearn/Kiozume Yagumo's story: the Boy Who Drew Cats. Otherwise Nezumi is simply the Japanese word for rats, not rat men. I also feel Nezumi were more an invention by L5R, as there were no rat men nations in Japan.
But pertaining to those two above, as well as Kitsune, Tanushi and the like - I've only found one reference to Hengeyokai, outside of D&D, which is kind of a catch all for these nature shape-changing races. I don't really want to have 50 different player character races. While having some yokai (shape-changers) as a PC race, I don't want to include one and exclude others. Perhaps they should be pulled from the available PC races and simply consider them a monster race.
There is already talk of another splat for Kaidan, something akin to Expanded Rules for Kaidan to include more depth to the various classes, add a few classes, include some Prestige Classes, and expansions on races. This might be the place to put a Savage Species chapter in that book, which I then could include all these additional PC races.
Ryujin (Sea Dragon People) are completely my invention. Following the D&D trope of hengeyokai consisting of multiple animal forms in a single shape-changing race, I wanted to do the same for sea animals. Plus I wanted some inhabitants for the Ryuki Sea Dragon Palace. Plus I thought a sea dragon people was kind of a cool idea.
Otherwise I was going to place same-bito and ningyo as monster races.
Last point Yuki-onna, I don't know if she falls under Nature Spirit or Demon Spirit. In Kaidan Nature Spirits are Kami of the wilderness, whereas Demon-Spirits are inhabitants of Hell infiltrating into the material world following the Oni Agenda (a dark conspiracy in Kaidan). If I place her as a Kami, then certainly a Snow Spirit Folk should exist.
I guess I'm stuck on whether being mythically correct, or trying to simplify for D&D categorizations for more practical game play... decisions to make.
Thanks for the response, though, this is great!
GP
About Hengeyokai.
From the viewpoint of Animism, everything has its own spirit, so all animals, plants, mineral, natural phenomena, geographic features, and even human artifacts could become Henge/Yokai/Obake.
So far as animal Henge folklores I know, honest man gets beautiful wife because he helps injured bear, wolf, fox, otter, snake, frog, traut, eel, Japanese nightingale, crane, sparrow, swan, copper pheasant, clam, crab, spider... Their children often have strange power.
So I think at random,
Sorcerer's bloodline of Hengeyokai(Shapechanger)
class skill: survival
bonus spells: Speak with Animals(3rd), Barkskin(5th), Speak with Plants(7th), Freedom of Movement(9th), Baleful Polymorph(11th), Stone Tell(13th), Control Weather(15th), Animal Shapes(17th), Shapechange(19th)
bonus feats:Acrobatics, Alertness, Animal Affirnity, Athletics, Endurance, Quickened Spell, Self-Sufficient, Toughness
bloodline arcana: Any time you cast a spell of transmutation school, the duration of that spell increases by +1.
bloodline powers: Wild Empathy(1st) Same as druid's class feature.
Resistances of beast(3rd) You gain +2 bonus on reflex save. At 9th level, You gain +2 bonus on fortitude save.
Evasion(9th) Same as Rogue's class feature.
Wilderness Magic(15th) You can cast Sorcerer spells at +1 Caster level when you are in any sort of natural terrain.
Natural Protection(20th) You gain immunity of poison and desease. In addition, you gain +10natural bonus on AC and damage reduction 5/-.
Given that almost all of the early stroies of the Yuki-onna paint her as a monster, I would keep her as such. In many ways she fills the "hag" role, though the Yama-uba fills that role better.
A cold-based sorcerer bloodline can be used to represent the rare child of one.
The stories of kinder Yuki-onna can be represented by using the ghost template, which plays well to the actual confusion over the nature of the creature.
Given that almost all of the early stroies of the Yuki-onna paint her as a monster, I would keep her as such. In many ways she fills the "hag" role, though the Yama-uba fills that role better.
A cold-based sorcerer bloodline can be used to represent the rare child of one.
The stories of kinder Yuki-onna can be represented by using the ghost template, which plays well to the actual confusion over the nature of the creature.
In the story: Yuki-onna by Lafcadio Hearn/Kiozumi Yagumo, the an old wood-cutter and his assistant go to the mountains are caught in a snow storm and forced to stay in a shepherds cabin. The assistant wakes from sleep to find the old man killed and the Yuki-onna having just breathed her frost breath on him. Instead of killing the assistant she says never speak of this to anyone, ever. Later he meets a woman named Yuki, falls in love, marries her and has two boys. One day many years later, he sees a coming winter storm which reminds him of that day long ago, and relates the story to his wife. Of course his wife is really Yuki-onna, though she says she should slay him for speaking of what he promised not to, but for the sake of her two boys she is leaving to him and going back to the mountain.
While I agree Yuki-onna is a demon-spirit, she does manage to have to half-human boys with the man, thus her spirit children can and should exist, just how to direct the fluff to make that make sense.
GP
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I only have 2 problems with what you've proposed thus far...
Ashigaru should not be Pathfinder fighters...they were conscripted to fight and given a crash course in very few weapons, Expert or Warrior should be the typical limit of their ability. Using Seven Samurai as an example, the peasants were still effectively untrained, except of course for Kikuchiyo, who while a peasant would clearly qualify as a fighter at least.
I also have a problem with ashigaru having access to katana. The katana was the weapon of the samurai, perhaps just give them access to mass produced no-daichi and wakizashi.
I only have 2 problems with what you've proposed thus far...
Ashigaru should not be Pathfinder fighters...they were conscripted to fight and given a crash course in very few weapons, Expert or Warrior should be the typical limit of their ability. Using Seven Samurai as an example, the peasants were still effectively untrained, except of course for Kikuchiyo, who while a peasant would clearly qualify as a fighter at least.
I also have a problem with ashigaru having access to katana. The katana was the weapon of the samurai, perhaps just give them access to mass produced no-daichi and wakizashi.
My goal is to create more fighters for Kaidan, than just Samurai or Ronin. In Kaidan, social caste has an especially important distinction, moreso than Japan itself. If one is a member of the Commoner caste, there would be no fighter class available as he was not born a Samurai.
While its true Ashigaru are conscripted given a few months training in their weapons, versus the lifetime training of a samurai, once an Ashigaru is a veteran of a war, though briefly trained, having survived they are seasoned soldiers. Certainly not the comparison to a Samurai, but not a slouch as far as fighters in other settings.
And perhaps as in Kikuchiyo's mention, only PC Ashigaru are among those peasants who could clearly fight, while the vast majority are the under trained masses.
In my first post in this thread I brought up issues for Ashigaru with katanas, and deftly proven to still work using mass produced versions. But I can also agree that no-daichi and wakizashi are just as appropriate as a fighter weapon. So I see where you're coming from in your argument.
In actual Japanese history there was one senior Ashigaru (call him a Sergeant Major) who was given the unheriditary title of Daimyo to watch an unruly border area, while the empire's samurai were involved in a war elsewhere and could not spare a daimyo appointment.
Do you have a better suggestion for peasant fighter, the setting needs one at least.
GP
How about as Bushi?
You and Yojimbouk both said "Bushi".
You win, Bushi it is.
GP
I would consider Kensai a Prestige Class, as there will be at least one per class, but I don't want PrC bloat
GP
One more point to add, I've kept this thread focused on classes and races, and only once mentioned the darker side as in the case of the state religion.
Kaidan is a dark fantasy setting. The word "Kaidan" is an archaic Japanese word that has a blunt translation to "strange discussions", but it literally means "ghost or horror story." It usually infers to older feudal Japan rather than modern Japanese Hora or JFilms. Kaidan is meant to be an Asian Horror setting.
While the rules will certainly apply to a non-horror Japanese fantasy setting, the setting itself is intended to creep you out.
I borrow actual Japanese historical events, legends, folklore and ghost stories. I emulate the kind of horror in "Ring" and "The Grudge", toss in a twisted religion and cosmology and govern it with oriental undead - of an empire founded on a dark curse.
So while Kaidan will feature all the fantasy oriental classes, races and magic you expect in a Pathfinder Adventure Path, it is also gothic horror and Asian horror. Its meant to be something different.
GP
If Fighter is named Bushi in Kaidan setting, are he allowed to use Katana? In Japannese sense, Bushi is term which includes Samurai, Kachi(footman), Ashigaru, and Ronin.
Given that almost all of the early stroies of the Yuki-onna paint her as a monster, I would keep her as such. In many ways she fills the "hag" role, though the Yama-uba fills that role better.
Japanese hag (Yama-Uba) has two aspect. She is so irascible as to bring disaster to whoever breaks the taboo of mountain, while she is benevolent enough to bring goodness and protection.
For mountainfolk (for example Matagi), she is goddess of mountain(yama no kami), but for townsman she is mere monster.
I remember reading somewhere that the earliest Ashigaru were mercenaries, so it could apply. However, it might be best to use the term "bushi" to represent those Ashigaru that have raised their status due to their skill in combat. They are still commoners, but have been awarded special notice. If they continue to serve their lord well, they may be raised to the (lower) upper class.
I have to admit, that I am looking forward to seeing what this setting looks like when it is done. I have always found Japanese horror stories to be very creepy.
Yamakazana, while I decided to adopt the Bushi as a standard fighter class for the Commoner Caste of Kaidan, I still don't see the need to give Bushi access to Katana. There are plenty of other sword weapons that a Bushi can take. Since most of fluff surrounding Samurai focus on the katana sword, along with ancestral weapon feat I see no reason to pervert that, by allowing other classes to use the katana - its not like katana is the only sword available.
There's wakizashi short sword, there's no-daichi great sword, there's ninja-to (though that should be exclusively a ninja weapon). There are assorted chinese swords and barbarian swords as well. The Bushi should have access to plenty of weapons without the need to access a katana.
While historical truth means one thing. For Kaidan, bending the history to favor some fluff seems to work fine - and that's where I plan to go on that. Let's say for Kaidan, only Samurai have access to katana, that simplifies things.
GP
Looking at the other Oriental Adventures "Weird Question/Idea" thread discusses the realities of Ninja and Samurai clans, multi-classing ideas, etc. In Kaidan social castes are more distinct. One must be born in the Samurai caste to be samurai. Although in real Japan moving from one caste to another was fairly fluid, not so in Kaidan. If you samurai, you can never be ninja and vice-versa, not in the same lifetime anyway. Your caste you are in today is determined by actions you committed in a previous life.
My ninja/shinobi clans are not fallen samurai houses. Five clans of ninja who call themselves "The Hidden" who carry ninja bloodlines that are over 1,000 years old. They possess powers they believe all mankind once had, but were lost over time. Only their five clans sought to maintain those powers through rituals and practice and each clan studies a different set of skills, weapon styles and "powers." The only way to become a Ninja is to be born in one of the five clans. None are recruited from outside the clans - ever. Also my Ninja are members of the Commoners Caste.
Ninja powers are in fact limited groupings of Psionics. Each clan specializes in one of five groupings of Psionics, primarily divided into these categories: infiltration powers, movement powers, mind affecting powers, divination powers, and fighting buff powers. Ninja cannot cross train in other clan powers, as everything else must be born of that clan. The more powerful psionics - teleportation, mind blast are not available in Kaidan. In a sense Kaidanese Ninja are rogue/wild psionicists and are the only classes with access to psionic powers.
The only way one can multi-class in Kaidan is through PC Death, accumulation of Karma and reincarnation. Acts of lawful and chaotic behavior is recorded by the DM for each player in the game. Lawful acts denote positive Karma points, while chaotic acts denote negative Karma points. With 20 (?) or more positive Karma points at PC Death, souls reincarnate upwards into the next caste (ie: Commoner to Samurai caste), consequently with 20 (?) or more negative Karma points, one's soul moves downwards in caste (ie: Commoner to Animal Realm "hengeyokai" caste). One's positive and negative Karma points essentially cancel one another out, thus less than 20 (?) points of any Karma, at PC death one is reborn in the same Caste, but different class and person.
Shaman (Shoten/Miko), Onmyoji Wizards and Sorcerers have access to Ancestral Magic that allow a spell to reveal where a fallen comrade has reincarnated to. Thus an adventure party can identify in whom the soul of their comrade exists. Once identified and contacted, further Ancestral Magic allows for memories that are lost in reincarnation to be activated with varying levels of success to "remember" their past lives.
Those who successfully "remember" can access: skills, feats, abilities, powers and spells attained in the previous life. Of course new attribute scores can make previous abilities inaccessable due to different values. Also the previous life's levels and skills cannot improve. The reincarnated person is in a new life and must pursue what's available in their new class. This is the only way to multi-class in Kaidan.
With successful ancestral magic, the reincarnated can remember up to 3 lifetimes worth of classes, all older life memories are permanently lost. In most cases level dipping is impossible, unless DM's adjudication allows for dipping in available classes of the same caste, but can never allow dipping in classes outside the caste one is a member. As discussed earlier level dipping in Ninja is impossible.
Reincarnation is hard-wired into society - raise dead and ressurrection magic does not work in Kaidan.
GP
I'm currently putting the Alpha rules for Kaidan together, I'm putting in classes, got the bushi, barbarian and start of hatamoto so far, but I was pondering on the Monk, as I'll be putting my final notes for that class very soon.
In Pathfinder the Monk is not allowed to cross-class (unless I'm mistaken). If true, its not so in Kaidan. All members of the Commoner caste, except barbarian, and shoten and miko shaman are allowed to cross-class with Monk at any time, even be dual class characters. They cannot do so with other classes (ie: sorcerer/bushi), only with the Monk class. Thus martial arts proliferates among the Commoner caste giving them some defense against their enemies or to fuel peasant revolts.
Thoughts?
GP
New Idea:
1. Nobles may freely multi-class with Samurai.
2. Samurai may freely multi-class with Zao Sohei (variant paladin)
3. Commoners may freely multi-class with Monk
4. Barbarians may freely multi-class with Ranger
5. Rogues may freely multi-class with Wako (wah-KO) Kaidanese Pirate
GP
Oh, very interesting. Just seeing this thread for the first time. I was getting set to run a Pathfinder campaign and was looking at running a wako (Asian pirates) campaign, and was looking through OA and other stuff to convert.
I also pretty much decided I'm not all that into variant classes. I was going to just map the standard classes to be oriental-type but with minor, mainly flavor, mods. I feel like a lot of the samurai/ninja/etc classes we see published in OA etc. are word count padding to make $, but not really merited with sufficiently flexible base classes and feat selection. Like a wu jen (I know you don't have them, just sayin') is just a wizard, maybe with a new special five-elementy specialty school. Similarly, I think very small mods make a rogue a ninja.
Although there is the question of how much "ki powers" to add on - do the pretty butch powers of fighters/rogues/etc do enough of this as they level up, or do you want to add a ki/psi/wuxia/whatever based system somehow? My group has enjoyed Book of Nine Swords and the stuf fin that, but it needs some pruning for Pathfinder.
I was pretty much stealing the plot from the anime Tokko because I love using lots of weird Asian monsters... A critical event let bunches of dark spirit monsters into the world (Wicked City, Demon City Shinjuku, etc etc). More decentralized than the Shadowlands or Worldwound. I didn't want to use Rokugan really because I don't like the L5R setup with all the clans, it's too artificial and frankly boring. That's my one comment about the samurai clans, making them too homogeneous ("we're the two weapon guys!") ends up semi lame IMO. I also like having "more bushi" - sure, it can be "historically accurate" for some periods (kinda) to have only samurai as warriors but that's boring.
As for monks, I wasn't worrying about excuding them because I was going for a China/Japan/SE Asia mashup (wako theme makes that easy). Plus, I find people like to mix it up a little. "All Japanese!" is like running an "All Varisian!" campaign - can be entertaining if everyone's on board with it, but tends to be a fringe taste, people like some variety.
Race wise, I was planning on the spirit folk and hengeyokai but that's about it - although I like your half-oni, I was looking for a tiefling role because of the heavy "incursion from the spirit world" angle.
One thing to note. Of the included classes, only the Ninja, Samurai, Shoten/Miko (shaman), Hatamoto and Yamabushi are new classes, all other included classes are just reflavorings of standard Pathfinder classes (which is why the alpha rules do not elaborate as much as those previously mentioned classes): Bushi=Fighter, Yakuza=Rogue, Onmyoji=Wizard, Bard=Bard, Jugondo=Sorcerer, Sohei=Paladin, Matagi=Ranger, Budoka=Monk.
Of races, I have suggested standard Pathfinder races could suffice for most of the Kaidan equivalents, excepting: hengeyokai, ryujin and half-oni as exceptions to the standard races. Spirit folk are a lot like elves, korobokuru are almost interchangeable with gnomes, humans are human.
Where I could, I tried to just reflavor Pathfinder to fit Kaidan. There are several unique aspects to Kaidan, some races, some classes and the whole reincarnation cycle concerning PC Death, a unique culture, history and legend mixed in with Japanese culture/history/legend. Most of it is just flavor.
GP
New thought regarding Ninja:
I basically planned on making Ninja a base class, but part of me wants to reintroduce the Shinobi from 2e into Ninja clan society. So how about this?
A starting player of the Commoner Caste in choosing any available player class (bard, budoka monk, bushi, shoten/miko shaman, jugondo sorcerer, and yamabushi, as well as yakuza rogue of the Hinin caste) can choose to be "Shinobi" at the start of the game, which means they have been born within a Ninja clan. Only by having Shinobi family ties, can they ever achieve Ninja prestige class powers.
New thought regarding Muhoumono (Outlaw):
Make it a prestige class too, in a similar setup as to Ninja above. Rather than a declaration of "Shinobi", any PC of any caste, may be forced by economic hardship to become Muhoumono outlaws.
Any class or caste (except for nobles) can qualify for Muhoumono Outlaw. Like a ranger they choose one of two weapon styles, but in the case of Muhoumono, its naval combat (Wako pirate) or skirmisher (nobushi bandit).
I need to come up with some special (desireable) abilities for Muhoumono, as the Ninja has special powers, though perhaps less arcane and more martial in variety.
Or should I keep Ninja as a base class, as previously developed?
Thoughts?
GP
Quote: Last point Yuki-onna, I don't know if she falls under Nature Spirit or Demon Spirit. In Kaidan Nature Spirits are Kami of the wilderness, whereas Demon-Spirits are inhabitants of Hell infiltrating into the material world following the Oni Agenda (a dark conspiracy in Kaidan). If I place her as a Kami, then certainly a Snow Spirit Folk should exist.
You could leave her undefined. No body knows what her agenda, some times she's benevolent, sometimes not. It fits with the ghost story feel.
As far as Ashigaru/Bushi, you could always make Fighter's a peasant hero, selected by fortunetellers, kami, etc to have some sort of special destiny. This could be something readily aparent with any spiritual talent and allow them to bypass the normal laws for carrying weapons.
A race of small but strong humanoids to go along with the Momotaro legend might be fun.
Final decision on classes for Kaidan is I'm basically sticking with Pathfinder Core classes for everything except Ninja and Yamabushi, which will be new classes, Ninja now being a prestige class.
I am waiting for the Beta classes for play-testing coming soon. I now believe I want to base the Samurai on the upcoming Cavalier with some Japanese nuances (iaijutsu strike, bushido ethical code/honor system, etc) also I had been looking at the Sohei to be a variant Paladin, but I want to take a look at the Beta Templar, for a possible better choice.
I will be creating new sorcerer bloodlines all of a spiritual nature: divine spirit, nature spirit, demon spirit, ancestral spirit and animal spirit.
Since social caste is significant in the setting certain limitations exist for members of varying castes. The Daisho (katana and wakizashi) can only be worn by Samurai, for example. Thus the Bushi (Fighter) has some limitation in access to weapons and the heaviest of armor, however will for every other way resemble the Pathfinder Core Fighter class.
Thus:
Bard = Bard (haven't decided on the best Japanese name to use for this.)
Budoka = Monk
Bushi = Fighter (commoner or hinin castes only)
Emishi = Barbarian
Jugondo = Sorcerer (with five different bloodlines)
Matagi = Ranger (limited to archery skills, not 2 weapon fighting)
Miko = Cleric (female Shaman Diviner or maybe Beta Oracle, we'll see.)
Onmyoji = Wizard (noble caste only)
Samurai = Cavalier (with at least three prestige classes available)
Shinobi = Rogue (ninja clan members of the commoner caste)
Shoten = Cleric (male shaman priest)
Sohei = Paladin or Templar (awaiting new Beta classes...)
Yakuza = Rogue (hinin caste)
Yamabushi = Cleric (five element priest)
Ninja is now a prestige class requiring members must be born into a Ninja clan only, 8th level Shinobi, multiclassed with either Budoka or Bushi, with skill mininums in Stealth and Acrobatics. I looked at Ninja as Sorcerers, but couldn't develop five distinct bloodlines to support it well enough, so I'm sticking with the five powers of psionics per house, with unique house weapon, feats and techniques.
Races are the same as already described.
GP