Another "What happens after death?" thread.


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

Dark Archive

We have already established that, barring some deal with devils or the like, the souls of the dead travels to the domain of the god they followed in life.

If a deceased followed no particular god, or more than one, they go the the plane that matches their alignment.

If the deceased didn't believe in the afterlife at all, they end up in the Graveyard of Souls, and eventually as a snack for Groetus.

But what happens to a True Neutral person who worships no, or many, gods? He should go to the plane of his alignment, but there is no True Neutral plane.

Also, some of the gods have realms on plaes that don't match their alignment, and that can cause some trouble for certain worshipers. For instance, Pharasma is TN, and could very well have worshipers, and even priests, of CN alignment. But her domain is on Axis, the LN plane. Can a CN person end up spending his afterlife on the LN plane?

Dark Archive

Entropi wrote:

But what happens to a True Neutral person who worships no, or many, gods? He should go to the plane of his alignment, but there is no True Neutral plane.

I can answer this part. Outside of the main Boneyard is an expanse similar to the prime material where said souls go called The Realm of the Content (aka The Spirelands). They continue to exist there in a life similar to that on the prime, only without having to attend to any particular needs, like hunger or sleep.

The Great Beyond wrote:

The neutral dead carry on much as they did in life, but with the time and ability to pursue all they enjoyed or were never able to partake of during their mortal existance. Farmers labor in idealized fields...

is the general gist of it.

I'm reasonably certain that Pharasma's domain is in The Boneyard, not Axis. The one you're thinking of there is probably Norgorber, who is NE and does have a domain in Axis. I'm fairly sure that his domain trumps the plane around it in terms of alignment requirements, and even his CE followers still go there.


The Boneyard is indeed a realm separate from the city of Axis. Axis is next to the base of the Spire, atop which Pharasma's domain sits in the midst of what are called the Spirelands. This is the TN realm.

Gadigan has the gist of TGB on the TN afterlife.

Dark Archive

Another question: How come it is more difficult to bring people back from the dead if they have been undead somewhere along the way? Is it because souls of undead go to some special place where it is harder to get back from?

Liberty's Edge

Perhaps they could go to Limbo forever or eventually depart from there to some place else after they do a lot of after-life soul searching (and perhaps adventuring!)

Dark Archive

Entropi wrote:
Another question: How come it is more difficult to bring people back from the dead if they have been undead somewhere along the way? Is it because souls of undead go to some special place where it is harder to get back from?

The following is only speculation on my part, as there has been no concrete answer provided for this that I know of.

Facts we know from The Great Beyond-

1. Undead are sustained by negative energy. Nevertheless, the souls of sentient undead, as well as the bodies of corporeal undead, were originally created by positive energy. Negative energy is the polar opposite of positive energy, meaning that undead are being empowered and sustained by something entirely anathema to their original existance.

2. Normally, when an individual dies, their soul progresses through the Astral toward the Boneyard for judgment.

3. The Bonyard is beyond the Astral Plane, which is beyond the four elmental planes, the closest of which (Air) is connected to the Prime Material. The Prime Material is also connected to the Ethereal Plane, which is connected to the Plane of Shadow, which is connected to the Negative Energy Plane.

From this I infer-

When an individual is made undead, it is empowered by negative energy, meaning it is connected energies from the Negative Energy Plane. This process taints the body (and probably soul), at the same time offsetting the soul's natural departure from the body and progression to The Boneyard. I would imagine that this offsetting, combined with the damage done to the body and soul's structure by negative energies, is what makes individuals who have been undead difficult to resurrect.

Contributor

You can assume that as all mortal souls begin within the positive energy plane, cultivated and nurtured by the jyoti before moving on towards the material plane, that negative energy is not a natural bedfellow for them. For reasons hazy and unknown, the negative energy plane cannot create souls or its own version of them. It's not antimatter to positive's matter, it only has a devouring hollowness, and its natives seem painfully aware and agonized by this inability to compete with their antithesis.

The souls of undead beings have become wrapped in negative energy, and in a bizarre warping of their proper natures, they're sustained and even empowered by it, but it comes at a cost. They're damaged, and that cascades for purposes of raising, etc.

None of this is formally written down and matched versus the mechanical aspects of it all, and I'm writing this all up from the lobby of the Omni using their wifi connection, so go with the thematic gist of this all and if I or someone else happens to contradict any of this later with a cooler idea, go with the cooler idea. ;)

Contributor

Entropi wrote:


Also, some of the gods have realms on plaes that don't match their alignment, and that can cause some trouble for certain worshipers. For instance, Pharasma is TN, and could very well have worshipers, and even priests, of CN alignment. But her domain is on Axis, the LN plane. Can a CN person end up spending his afterlife on the LN plane?

Sure, the same way a capitalist can live in a communist country, but not really be considered in that country, if he's staying at the embassy.

Pharasma has her Embassy on Axis and welcomes her followers into it.

With the question about why undead or former undead are more difficult to resurrect than the ordinary dead, it's a matter of paperwork.

All the resurrection spells check to see whether a soul is "willing" or "unwilling." There has to be some intelligence behind this, so it's easy enough to postulate that a psychopomp (a spirit which transfers souls to the afterlife, and presumably from it) goes to check with the spirit wherever it is and signs all the appropriate paperwork in the more lawful afterlives. Presumably having been undead even just for a minute complicates the paperwork such that it requires a higher level spell (and a higher ranking psychopomp) to navigate the celestial bureaucracy and get the soul.

Interestingly, none of the undead creation spells require willingness, so one presumes the psychomp in charge of those is some particularly evil death spirit completely unconcerned with free will and rips the soul from wherever it is immediately. Which means even the realms of goodness have sucky security.

Contributor

Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
Interestingly, none of the undead creation spells require willingness, so one presumes the psychomp in charge of those is some particularly evil death spirit completely unconcerned with free will and rips the soul from wherever it is immediately. Which means even the realms of goodness have sucky security.

The ones that create nonintelligent undead don't have anything to do with souls, so no problems there, afterlife paperwork or not. As for the ones creating intelligent undead, I'm a fan of it simply using a soul or souls either amenable to being used (cognizant of it or not) or fished from places where whoever has control of them doesn't mind giving them away for such purposes. Undeath might be better than some other fates.

Contributor

Todd Stewart wrote:
Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
Interestingly, none of the undead creation spells require willingness, so one presumes the psychomp in charge of those is some particularly evil death spirit completely unconcerned with free will and rips the soul from wherever it is immediately. Which means even the realms of goodness have sucky security.
The ones that create nonintelligent undead don't have anything to do with souls, so no problems there, afterlife paperwork or not. As for the ones creating intelligent undead, I'm a fan of it simply using a soul or souls either amenable to being used (cognizant of it or not) or fished from places where whoever has control of them doesn't mind giving them away for such purposes. Undeath might be better than some other fates.

Which means sucky security on the Hells too.

DEVIL: We have such devilish tortures in store for you!
LEMURES: Eek!
DEVIL: There is no escape from the Pit! Hahaha!

Skeletal hand reaches down from above and picks up a lemure, carrying it away.

LEMURE: Yay! Necromancy!
DEVIL: Would you mind? Um, as I was saying, there is seldom any escape from the Pit!
LEMURES: The Claw! The Claw!
DEVIL: Argh!

There's also the question of whether undeadness applies to the soul or the body. For example, Bob dies, and while he's dead, his corpse is possessed by a revenant. Once the revenant is destroyed, can Bob be raised? Does it require the revenant to be destroyed, because putting Bob back into his body might evict the revenant?

There's also the business now in Pathfinder where being killed by death magic also messes up easy raising.

Interestingly, the Reincarnation spell revision reverses the old "old age" problem, making it possible for those who died of old age to be reincarnated (though not if they got turned into undead after that).

It's a pretty common house rule to put in True Reincarnation as a 9th level druid spell.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Lost Omens Campaign Setting / General Discussion / Another "What happens after death?" thread. All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion