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Hey there !
Now that everyone works in metrics system... Yeah yeah ! even you ! When will, if ever, will we get a D&D in metrics system. You know ... meters, kilograms, metric tons and so on ?
Well I'm playing with a translated version of D&D (in French) and basically I'm tired of 1.5m wide corridors (5ft) and armors weighing 22.5 kilograms with all these commas to play with ?
So come on guys ? When will we see spells of radius of 10 meters and not 30ft (9m) ?
Is it just "never going to happen ?"
Chewbacca : 99 kilos and 1,91m :P
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Being from one of those advanced societies using the metric system myself, I have little problems of using the imperial system. It kind of fits an archaic world of fantasy where the belief in magic is still strong.
The greatest problems are units like ton or pound because those have a different meaning in the metric system than in the imperial system.
Not going to happen, I'm afraid. Their primary market is the US. And they use those outdated, unscientific units of measurement. ;-)
That's right.
I gets me twelve rods to the hog's head and that's the ways I like it!
It's already in the metric system.
The definition of an inch is 2.54 centimeters.
That's not convenient enough for you?
It would probably be more likely for someone to update d20 Modern to metric.
Back when there were dragons, no-one used the French revolutionary measurement system.
Please. Everyone knows that the French got the system from a celestial gold dragon who passed on the dragons' eons-old system for measurements.
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*shakes his fist*
It's one metre and two metres (plural)!
Even if it was converted to metric you folks would still spell the units incorrectly
:)
Well it's not my fault if Brits spell it "metre" and Americans spell it "meter".
Since we are in a US-based forum I used "meter". So much for incorrect spelling :P.
So they're the ones to blame- damn Frenchies! ;-)
Yeah damn frenchies who simplified the overcomplicated system of inches feet yards pounds stones and so on .... :D
The Spelling Reform Society of Pedantia disapproves of these so-called "mee-trees".
It's a well-known fact that the celestial gold dragons used the seconds-meter rather than the Earth meridional meter, which proves that the metric system was cocked from the beginning.
The old imperial measurements are indeed fitting for the game. The troubles start when the game is translated, and normally converted to metric system as well, as it is familiar to us Europeans. If a RPG would use the metric system in the US, most would think it as odd, I guess. But over here, the old measurements are out of use completely, so it would be odd to some if they had to contend with "Fuß", "Schritt" and other old measurements. So, most games are converted and translated, which leads to odd measurements in translated games and hinders playability. I think it would be better if the translators would not take the measurements too literally.
Stefan
The old imperial measurements are indeed fitting for the game. The troubles start when the game is translated, and normally converted to metric system as well, as it is familiar to us Europeans. If a RPG would use the metric system in the US, most would think it as odd, I guess.
Note that there are a variety of (American) RPGs that use the metric system. The HERO system games, for example.
In some ways, the current system is more decimal than a true metric system would be.
The advantage of the metric system is its decimality and standardization; the meter-second-gravity correspondence is also very convenient for physics. Physics and standardization are not really concerns in a fantasy world.
Inch-foot-mile measurements are awkward because they are not standard: there are 12 inches in a foot. But effectively, there are no "inches" in the d20 system. The base unit is the foot, or a length of five feet, which are most often handled in groups of ten: We usually have a 10 ft by 40 ft corridor, or a 50 ft by 50 ft room. Spell and bow ranges are usually in multiples of ten as well.
In practice, converting to Star Wars-like metric system would make the average dungeon LESS decimal. Rather than being 10 feet by 60 feet, a corridor would be 4 meters by 24 meters. Of course, people would design dungeon corridors that are 4 meters by 20 meters because decimality is usually pretty handy. But decimality is a built-in convention.
Miles are only used for overland movement. But there's really no need for the D&D mile to equal the English mile: nothing breaks if a mile is 5,000 feet instead of 5,280. You could rule that a mile is five kilo-feet as easily as eight furlongs.
Overland movement is much easier to think about in terms of leagues rather than miles, especially on a hex map, since a league is the distance a person can walk in an hour (3 miles). A dwarven league would be 2 miles...that could be defined as 10,000 feet, a "myria-foot". It lines up nicely with the "20 foot" and "30 foot" movement rates.
Whereas a "12 meter" movement rate is a 7.2 km league. The older movement systems were human-based by design, whereas the metric system was not.
Ultimately, this might be easier for Europeans if the translators translated "5 feet" as "1 square" instead of "x meters", and humans had a 6-square movement rate.
Squares are effectively the real base unit.
Well it's not my fault if Brits spell it "metre" and Americans spell it "meter".
Since we are in a US-based forum I used "meter". So much for incorrect spelling :P.
The Brits were there first, they used the language first, so they're right. Just because the Americans are too lazy to write a couple of os doesn't mean YOU have to betray your continent ;-P
Creative Director
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Using "square" as a measurement is actually a pretty ingenious way to sidestep the issue of which system to use. But the fact that it implies that you can't do a map with a grid at a different scale is a game-breaker for me; sometimes, a location is just too large to fit on a single page at a scale of "1 square = 5 feet" after all.
About 35 years ago, when I was just starting school, they actually taught the meteric system in the US. There was a big push to convert. It failed. However, I actually know (and like) the meteric system because of it.
As to American vs. British spellings, that has less to do with laziness and more to do with the fact that at one time there was no uniform spelling of many English words. Both countries standardized the language for their regions, which resulted in the differences.
I like to specify fuel consumption in per hectares - it's dimensionally correct and the look on peoples faces as their brains stall amuses me.That's right.
I gets me twelve rods to the hog's head and that's the ways I like it!
How so? Do you mean Liters/Hectare? Or Hectares/Liter?
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About 35 years ago, when I was just starting school, they actually taught the meteric system in the US. There was a big push to convert. It failed. However, I actually know (and like) the meteric system because of it.
As to American vs. British spellings, that has less to do with laziness and more to do with the fact that at one time there was no uniform spelling of many English words. Both countries standardized the language for their regions, which resulted in the differences.
As I understand it, Webster was the first who significantly standardised American English and part of his ambition was making it different to British English (as well as more sensible ideas like making it more systematic).
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How so? Do you mean Liters/Hectare? Or Hectares/Liter?I like to specify fuel consumption in per hectares - it's dimensionally correct and the look on peoples faces as their brains stall amuses me.That's right.
I gets me twelve rods to the hog's head and that's the ways I like it!
Distance/volume (as in "miles per gallon") has the dimensions of length to the power of minus two, which is basically 'per area'.
Hey there !
Now that everyone works in metrics system...
Since about 130 years ago... ^^
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We'll adopt the metric system once you all start learning how to drive properly on the right side of the road...
Most of the world does drive on the right hand side of the road (all of Europe does other than the UK and Ireland).
Of course, whether most of the world 'drives properly' is a different matter. Indiana drivers, for example, clearly can't...
5ft = 1 Sesqimetre (sq)
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metric is a passing fad.
dividing by 2 and eyeballing it is SO much easier than dividing by 10 and hoping. How do you cook recipes? Good lord that has to be a nightmare. "Nope got to re-measure it, I have 9 instead of 7 centiliters. Woops got 6 this time. Dump it and go again. Forget it, I'll just eyeball it and go with 2x or 1/2x." :)
Just teasing you guys. But seriously, how DO you deal with that?
metric is a passing fad.
dividing by 2 and eyeballing it is SO much easier than dividing by 10 and hoping. How do you cook recipes? Good lord that has to be a nightmare. "Nope got to re-measure it, I have 9 instead of 7 centiliters. Woops got 6 this time. Dump it and go again. Forget it, I'll just eyeball it and go with 2x or 1/2x." :)
Just teasing you guys. But seriously, how DO you deal with that?
Just like you don't see many recipies using Drams, Minims or event quarts and mostly only cups, teaspoon and tablespoon.
Most recipes only use multiples of five, tens or 50 Mililiters (ml) that you get with the same type of mesuring tools. So 250 ml (close to a cup that's 254ml) is easy to 1/2 at 125 or double at 500 or 4x and get a straight 1l or not multiply and reuse the 250ml measuring cup.
The units that realy see use (cooking and otherwise) are the Litre (l), Mililitre (ml), Meter (m), Milimeter (mm), Kilometer (km), Gramme (g), Miligram (mg) and Kilogram (Kg). The other fractions of units are more user/use-specific but you don't need to remember them they all follow the same decimal progression.
I live in both systems (Canada) but I couldn't convert a gallon to cups by heart if my life depended on it.
On a side note, I wonder if the europeens translation of PFRPG will be metric?
5ft = 1 Sesqimetre (sq)
Interesting, I think the unit should be "sm" but the sq = 1.5 meter = 5ft = 1 square does have a nice fuidity to it.
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Being from one of those advanced societies using the metric system myself, I have little problems of using the imperial system. It kind of fits an archaic world of fantasy where the belief in magic is still strong.
The greatest problems are units like ton or pound because those have a different meaning in the metric system than in the imperial system.
Probably why it was dismally despised...
Probably why it was dismally despised...Being from one of those advanced societies using the metric system myself, I have little problems of using the imperial system. It kind of fits an archaic world of fantasy where the belief in magic is still strong.
The greatest problems are units like ton or pound because those have a different meaning in the metric system than in the imperial system.
Well, the pound and ton (the gallon too) have multiple meanings inside the Imperial System alone if you look at pound-weigth, pound-mass, pound-torque, english-ton, american-ton, short-ton, american-gallon, english gallon, etc.
I don't know of a metric pound but there is a metric ton (1000 kg or Megagram (Mg)) but it doesn't have any other meaning that I know of.
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I don't know of a metric pound but there is a metric ton (1000 kg or Megagram (Mg)) but it doesn't have any other meaning that I know of.
The metric pound is 500g. It's not really an official unit but a rather common one. You can order 'ein viertel Pfund Schinken' and everyone knows what you want (if he understands german of course).
There is also the 'zentner' which has 50 kg.
Other countries may have different uses for the word, but this is the right way to do it.
Not only those. But as Europe and China become the new world powers, who cares for those guys at the backside of the globe? ^^
I have a question.... If a country like the UK uses the Metric system... why are all their street signs in Miles?.....
;-)
The UK is a really bad example. They may speak a language americans can sometimes understand, but their money, rules for driving, and such are a source of constant amazement to the rest of us. ^^
Just have to accept the fact that the US and its citizens are going to continue to violate international treaties requiring conversion to Metric.
Until there is a war. The Big Metric War that will see the US razed to the ground - and then rebuild in metres and kilogrammes.
metric is a passing fad.
dividing by 2 and eyeballing it is SO much easier than dividing by 10 and hoping.
That's how NASA works? No wonder you guys haven't made it past the moon yet (we have a regular connexion to mars, but don't tell anybody, we keep it from the Americans so they don't die of envy)
Just teasing you guys. But seriously, how DO you deal with that?
We convert stuff. Doesn't come up all that often - character height and weight is determined in inch/lbs and then converted once, and during combat, we fall back to feet/squares usually.
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I have a question.... If a country like the UK uses the Metric system... why are all their street signs in Miles?.....
;-)
If the government of a country like the UK told the people to work in metric, they wouldn't give a toss and they would happily continue with miles, feet and (especially) pints :)
Not going to happen, I'm afraid. Their primary market is the US.Imperial System FTW!
But, if you want to go that route, shouldn't all coinage in Pathfinder also be in:
Pound Sterling, Shillings, and Pence? With Crowns, Farthings, & Guineas thrown in for good measure. :)
With
- One Guinea = 30 Shillings
- One Pound = 20 Shillings
- One Crown = 5 Shillings
- One Shilling = 12 Pence
- One Pence = 4 Farthings
Hey, if we want to stick to the Imperial System, we should go whole hog?
What could be more interresting is to find the weight & measuring systems actually used in the Late Middle Ages and Early Renaissance.
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Yeah... until the USA (which is where Pathfinder is made, where Paizo's employees live) adopts the metric system, the rules themselves won't be going metric.
Wasn't Pathfinder the name of the mars probe were the guys at NASA got confused between feet and meters and crashed the probe due to a low orbit 3 times lower than expected ? :D ... hum sorry ... it must be another probe ...
Anyway ... back to what I said : In france, where I live, if I talk to my players about a 20 ft long corridor they will look at me as if I was mad and they will all have a hard time calculating.
No one ever use any of these units in France. So whoever said it sounded medieval ... well it doesn't really "sound medieval"to us. I believe it's the same for most of the rest of the world ...
So we use meters, PFRPG, just like D&D3.5, is probably going to be based on meters ... so we come up with funny size of rooms.
I realise now that it doesn't really seem impossible since some games made by USA citizens, working in USA, are set in meters.
just a question, does anybody know if Chinese use metric system ?