Just curious what people thought.
Seemed a little grim. Can't say as I was completely satisfied with it.
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Can Superboy Prime be redeemed..I guess seeing as he apparently did in his girlfriend after he got back home ..the answer is a resounding.
The Titans did well out of this too..Bart and Connor back on the strength..and Connor going to be a Legion Regular...yes Long Live the Legion..I already have Adventure #1 on order
I loved it! The Black Witch, 31st century return of the Green Lanterns and Kent Shakespear! Although I would of loved to see the 3 Braniacs response to the animated Brainy.
This was possibly the best way to deal with the constant re-boots. Basically it said that ALL Legions exist somewhere in the Multiverse.
Now if we could just get our monthly Legion books back, maybe a Wanderers book too?
Yes, and we will see how it goes, but I would rather see the Legion stand on it's own with it's own book.
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The Black WitchMysa was always one of my favorite Legionnaires. I'm really worried for her now.
She was always an odd man out in the Legion, which were primarily science-based (with a few exceptions, like Projectra and Shady).
Her powers were often *very* squiffily defined, and she would be utterly helpless in one scene, and teleporting a Legion cruiser halfway across the galaxy in another. Like many magic-based characters, she was inconsistently written, and, as much as I liked her characterization, and her hesitant gentle sort of relationship with Blok (not all sparks and drama, like so many others), I think she's probably the 'classic' Legionnaire that I would be most comfortable going off to do her own thing, as she never really 'fit' the team. (And I'm not saying that as a criticism of the character, and it could even be taken as a criticism of the writers, as other DC teams, like the Teen Titans, JLA and JSA manage to incorporate science-based and magic-based characters much more smoothly, IMO.)
I do find it irksome when it is a female character that gets plugged into the 'lose control of your powers / emotions, dye your hair dark and go crazy' trope, 'though. (See; Jean Grey, Willow Rosenberg, Ilyanna Rasputin, Wanda Maximoff, Mary Marvel, etc.)
That old chestnut (women proving unable to handle power or getting more powerful by losing control or having a breakdown) is getting a little old.
Then again, it's not like there isn't an occasional male character whose powers come from being a victim of his condition / loss of self-control / hysteria (see; Bruce Banner). :)
While I am ultimate underwhelmed by the whole Legion of 3 Worlds event, I am pleasantly relieved by two things;
1) The much-touted bloodbath didn't occur (Dan Didio promised that Prime would 'do what Prime does best' to the various Legions, and what Prime does best is punch people's heads off, cut them in half with his laser-beam eyes (which don't produce heat, oddly enough, as his victims always bleed all over the place), and / or rip their limbs off.). I could have easily seen a way for a bloodbath to be *presented*, thanks to the presence of three different precognitives, three different computer intellects, three different telepaths and three different illusion-casters among the assembled Legions (let Prime *think* he's happily butchering dozens of hapless Legionnaires, fighting only illusions, while the real Legionnaires are mopping up his LSV allies), but the writer decided to not even go that much, just to make Didio's promise as empty as they usually are.
2) There were plot seeds dropped around at the end, such as the Black Witch, the search for the missing Legionnaires, etc. suggesting that at least one person at DC wasn't just wrapping up the Legion with a pretty bow in preparation for putting it on a shelf and forgetting about it for a couple of years. (Which was the impression given by Didio when he said that the Legion ongoing wasn't ending, and then said that Adventure would be Legion stories, and then said that Adventure would 'co-feature' Legion stories, and then said that some of thos 'Legion stories' might be reprints of the first Legion appearance, or stories about Bart or Conner (who aren't exactly who most Legion fans think of when they go out to buy a 'Legion story'), etc, etc. There was only so many times Charlie Brown could run at that football before realizing that Lucy wasn't really serious when she said that *this time* she wouldn't pull it away...)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Thank you for your input.
I've just followed the synopsis on Wikipedia, but on reflection kind of found the series a let down. I mean superboy prime is still out there, just 'stuck' on his own world (yeah, we'll see how long that lasts) if hi exploits in the DCU are shown in comics, then why doesn't he go threaten the writers in his earth or something?
I understand not killing him, (why let a good villian go to waste?) but don't like the resolution. Not to mention we now have an earth full of powerless people dealing with a superboy.
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I understand not killing him, (why let a good villian go to waste?) but don't like the resolution. Not to mention we now have an earth full of powerless people dealing with a superboy.
Technically, he's supposed to be completely powerless back on earth prime, but since his eyes are glowing red in the last scene, that just opens up another can of worms (although it may have just been ill-advised 'artistic license').
I loathed the character from the time he came back and started killing people (even characters I had no use for, like Pantha), but the slaughterfests from him and Black Adam were absolutely the bee's knees over on the DC boards, and I think that the writers got too caught up in that sort of thing. (Which I blame on the Ultimates / Authority books, with their gratuitious uses of people being punched in the brainpan and celebrations of Hellraiser's quality gore and visceral body-destruction as a sign of 'badassness' or 'gritty realism', spreading over to infect the mainstream DC and Marvel universes.) And yet, here in Legion of Three Worlds, he pretty much postured. There are dozens of Legionnaires who would have died in a single faster-than-light-speed indestructible clothelining from the Brat of Steel, and he didn't bother to do that. There are dozens of Legionnaires who could have shut him off like a light (and members of various Legions have, in some cases single-handedly, defeated dozens, or even *thousands* of Krytonian-class attackers), and they also sat around with their thumbs up their butts (or were kept off-panel, like classic Element Lad).
Ultimately, it felt like the writer was held hostage by editorial mandate. X amount of story had to be told. X amount of setup had to occur. Bart and Conner had to return. That mohawked Sodomy dude has to make some new Green Lanterns, to reverse the editorial retcon that made Rond Vidar the last Green Lantern (since, previously, there had been a 31st century GLC, but Geoff Johns took them away, so that he could, four issues later, bring them back? Whatever. That was a masturbatory exercise on his part...). The other Legions have to 'go away' because we don't want them to clutter the place. Any Legionnaire that isn't shown, has to be at least mentioned (and all of the dead ones get to show up anyway in a more-gratuitious-than-normal splash page, as the Legion founders do what they've done all series now, cry for help from other people...).
As a result of all this 'stuff that has to happen,' it felt like the characters didn't really get well served. Prime turned out to be a twit, whose final failure includes mocking from Brainiac 5, calling him an idiot as he punches himself out of existence. The Legion got a lot of mop-up duty, and half of their plan involved recruiting (Superman, Sodom) or resurrecting (Bart, Conner) various 20th century heroes to save their butts. Superman got to make a portentous announcement that Prime 'must be redeemed!' and promptly flew around a lot to watch stuff going on, and, ultimately, was proven *wrong,* as Prime was *not* redeemed (and, indeed, after the murder of 20,0000 people on Takron-Galtos, isn't really 'redeemable'). Bart and Conner made a great showing, but even that felt more editorial than organic, as Conner is frankly not in Prime's weight category, and Bart's big threat to Prime, locking him away in the Speed Force, is toothless and meaningless, as Prime already knows that he can get out (which makes his wide-eyed terror of Bart inexplicable).
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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From stuff I've read (and no I haven't read Lo3W, but am planning on getting the trades because of this thread and the other) Super-Prime has a fear of Bart because Bart whooped his butt in Final Crisis and Super-Prime can't handle losing.
I was reading in Infinate Crisis that I guess the speedsters trapped him on a planet with a red sun for years via the speed force. I think that's his fear of speedsters, that they could put him back there.
From stuff I've read (and no I haven't read Lo3W, but am planning on getting the trades because of this thread and the other) Super-Prime has a fear of Bart because Bart whooped his butt in Final Crisis and Super-Prime can't handle losing.I was reading in Infinite Crisis that I guess the speedsters trapped him on a planet with a red sun for years via the speed force. I think that's his fear of speedsters, that they could put him back there.
The speedsters trapped him in the Speed Force, but he got out.
The Green Lanter Corps and Superman of Earth 2 trapped him within Krypton's Red Sun Rao, but he got out.
And now he is trapped back on Earth Prime, living in his parent's basement, posting on DC's Messageboards.
Yes Superboy is now a Fanboy, truely a fate worse than death.
The Green Lanter Corps and Superman of Earth 2 trapped him within Krypton's Red Sun Rao, but he got out.
And now he is trapped back on Earth Prime, living in his parent's basement, posting on DC's Messageboards.
Yes Superboy is now a Fanboy, truely a fate worse than death.
It was actually a red sun eater.
And it would certainly appear Super-Psycho does have his powers, since he's apparently terrorizing his parents. Not nice at all.As for why waste a good villain? Because he isn't one. He's a poor, abused character who should be a hero who was mangled by the editors at DC. Killing him off would be a mercy killing.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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The Green Lanter Corps and Superman of Earth 2 trapped him within Krypton's Red Sun Rao, but he got out.
And now he is trapped back on Earth Prime, living in his parent's basement, posting on DC's Messageboards.
Yes Superboy is now a Fanboy, truely a fate worse than death.
It was actually a red sun eater.
And it would certainly appear Super-Psycho does have his powers, since he's apparently terrorizing his parents. Not nice at all.
As for why waste a good villain? Because he isn't one. He's a poor, abused character who should be a hero who was mangled by the editors at DC. Killing him off would be a mercy killing.
Ok, found the reference in Wikipedia "Left with no other option, Jay Garrick, Wally West, and Bart Allen drive Superboy-Prime into the Speed Force, and banish him to a world bathed in red sunlight, where he remains for four years."
I thought of superboy as an anachronism, like if we had the 1960's batman dealing with Hush, or the 2000's Joker. Or that one cartoon from Wizard where part of the Justice league switches places with the Super Friends, with amusing results. He's kind of an idealist, slammed against reality, and he broke.
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I thought of superboy as an anachronism, like if we had the 1960's batman dealing with Hush, or the 2000's Joker. Or that one cartoon from Wizard where part of the Justice league switches places with the Super Friends, with amusing results. He's kind of an idealist, slammed against reality, and he broke.
The scene in Teen Titans (or was it still Young Justice? I have no idea) where he killed Pantha was revealing. She, basically a cat-girl, leaps at him and he punches her head clean off. He then looks appalled and cries out, "You're ruining me!"
He was utterly convinced that he was the big hero, and that everyone else just didn't understand. He was frustrated and violently lashing out, because the world didn't recognize what a special hero he was, and regarded him as a dangerous lunatic. His big beef with Conner (which led to him killing Conner) was that he wasn't 'good enough' to be called Superboy, and he attacked him on the Kent farm, endangering Ma Kent (nearly hitting her with a tractor) in the process of 'protecting' her from Conner (who was living there as her guest, at the time, another thing that galled Prime, who wasn't exactly invited to hang out with Superman's mom).
His entire worldview seems to center around himself as a persecuted unrecognized hero, and how it isn't fair that others, like Conner, are given the love and respect that he feels are his.
By the time Legion of Three Worlds comes around, he's killed a bunch of Titans, a bunch of Green Lanterns, and, supposedly, a whole universe full of other people, and he's well past wanting to be a hero, even if that craving for respect still drives him. He's the ultimate attention-seeker, doing the most outrageous things he can, reveling in his destructive power and craving the fear of others (and being pretty petulant if he doesn't get it!), if he can't have their respect or their love.
The writers of one of the first Conner/Prime fights even went so far as to have Prime kick Krypto, just in case anyone was still on his side. :)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Funny thing about Pantha, she was one of my favourite Titans.
I liked that we didn't know much abut her. Also that she didn't know much about her. She always seemed to be more complex, wanting to be part of something, but not wanting to look like she wanted to be part of something. I didn't like her (or baby wildebeast's) death, it was just so... pointless. I always wanted to see her grow and evolve, find out a past, and accept who she is. She kind of reminds me of Rose Wilson in a way (another character who's become a favourite).
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Funny thing about Pantha, she was one of my favourite Titans.
I never read that particular run of the Titans, so I have to admit, I know nothing about her (or the Wildebeest Society) that I haven't read online, and, as is often the case with opinions online, impressions of her are... unkind.
Still doesn't mean I wanted Prime to not only kill a young mother, but, in the next panel, kill her toddler (who, granted, was in the form of a giant warrior-brute, at the time, but was still a toddler). Kinda extreme, and not at all the kind of stuff I buy comic books to see. That's the sort of thing I would rent Saw IV to see (assuming I watched that kind of stuff).
She kind of reminds me of Rose Wilson in a way (another character who's become a favourite).
I loathe with the fiery passion of a thousand burning nuns female characters who are 'she' characters, instead of being original concepts. She-Hulk. X-23, the She-Wolverine. Siryn, the She-Banshee. Big Bertha, the She-Blob. Batwoman/girl/chick. Superwoman/girl/chick. Zatanna, the She-Zatara. Miss Martian, the She-Martian Manhunter. Etc. So I was all prepared to despise this She-Deathstroke, especially since she was so obviously designed by morons (Slade Wilson was blonde, like both of his sons. We saw his origin in the Judas Contract. He's got white hair now because he's *OLD*, but in one of Rose's first appearances, Slade's faithful manservant Wintergreen is commenting on how she looks like Slade because of her *white* hair. Grr.).
But, against great odds, Rose turned into a pretty awesome character (although Bombshell attempting to take on the 'angry antisocial chick' role in the current Teen Titans run is just annoying, because Rose did it so much better, and Bombshell is being so transparently written to 'fill the Rose niche').
She's not the first one. She-Hulk and X-23 have also been fleshed out pretty amazingly, and won me over, despite their clone-of-a-male-hero-with-boobs derivative status.
Still, female characters like the Scarlet Witch, Wasp, Storm, Monica Rambeau, etc. who aren't just girl version of established boy heroes (and often wearing curvier version of their male archetypes costumes) have a better chance of 'working' for me.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I agree about the 'she-character' syndrome. It's the same as the 'black-character' syndrome. You get a character who's powers come from someone else (Falcon, War Machine*) or is another character with a paint job (Battlestar= US Agent, Patriot = Bucky immediately spring to mind, though 'Black Goliath' also is there.) Mutants don't count, so I don't include Bishop in the list, though I hate what they've done with him.
*
I fell in 'love' with Rose when she actually stood down Big Barda, and was fully ready to charge in. This was before her pre-cog power kicked in.
I think the 'teen charcters' (Teen Titans, New Mutants, etc) are best written when folks remember they're of the teen age trope. People try to fit in when they're that age, being a metahuman should ramp that up times ten. Not get burried in angst, but I liked it when Arrowette essentially blackmailed the school to keep Cassie in it, or Connor trying to deal with being 'normal' They make a nice contrast to Rose, who wouldn't know normal if it came up and beat her around the neck and shoulders, or Pantha who had to wonder if she ever was normal. The original Titans were a 'kids sidekick club' and the reboot seemed to have similar origins. Maybe it's my own childhood, but I have empathy for the 'trying to do good' bad boys and girls. The 'twentysomething Titans' work because they've all been friends for years and have been together through the best (Donna's wedding, Liam's birth) and the worst (Dolphin's death, Donna's death(s), Roy's addiction, etc.)
Back on to Legion: Maybe that's part of Superboy's problem. He didn't have any peers, then spent x years watching all the cool kids. Though I'd think he should be mad at the Legion and the twentysomething titans, since that's where he'd 'belong'.
I thought of superboy as an anachronism, like if we had the 1960's batman dealing with Hush, or the 2000's Joker. Or that one cartoon from Wizard where part of the Justice league switches places with the Super Friends, with amusing results. He's kind of an idealist, slammed against reality, and he broke.The scene in Teen Titans (or was it still Young Justice? I have no idea) where he killed Pantha was revealing. She, basically a cat-girl, leaps at him and he punches her head clean off. He then looks appalled and cries out, "You're ruining me!"
He was utterly convinced that he was the big hero, and that everyone else just didn't understand. He was frustrated and violently lashing out, because the world didn't recognize what a special hero he was, and regarded him as a dangerous lunatic. His big beef with Conner (which led to him killing Conner) was that he wasn't 'good enough' to be called Superboy, and he attacked him on the Kent farm, endangering Ma Kent (nearly hitting her with a tractor) in the process of 'protecting' her from Conner (who was living there as her guest, at the time, another thing that galled Prime, who wasn't exactly invited to hang out with Superman's mom).
That was one of my favorite scenes from Crisis. It summed up his character perfectly. I like the fact that he was a flawed villain, a fallen hero. Despite opinions to the contrary, I think we should see more of that in both DC and Marvel. And his ultimate fate- faceless fanboy? I love it. Love it love it love it. And yes, I was a Pantha fan as well. I have no idea why she's hated so much on messageboards, or why DC fans in particular have such a beef with any "new" characters. The Blood Pack is an excellent example. Were they world beaters? No. But many of them had interesting powers that could and should have been explored more. I was a big Razorsharp/Geist/Nightblade fan myself.
But yes, that fight could have ended differently. Element Lad could have been whipped out. Prime could have had the Legion of Super Villains hunt and kill various Element Lads. There are other characters who could have taken him out. It wouldn't have been easy, but it was quite possible. White/Black Witch is another one. I'm not sure if I agree with the X must be done by X assessment, but the story ended up rather nicely by my estimation, so I'm willing to overlook the "hey, Element Lad could have encased your head in Kryptonite" plot hole.
Also, where is Elieen? I would love to know what she thinks on this one. And I will be picking up Adventure Comics to see the further exploits of the Legion. LLL!
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But yes, that fight could have ended differently.
When the series was first announced, and Didio suggested that it was going to be an enormous slaughterfest and that 'there would only be one Legion left standing' when it was over, there was much enthusiasm over on the DC boards from fans of Prime (and Black Adam) who were happily discussing how many of these stupid characters would get killed off.
And yet there are twenty different Legionnaires (and Rejects, and Subs) who could shut Prime off like a light, and the team has fought *armies* of people with his powers on three different occasions without losing a single member.
Prime, no matter how 'psycho' he is, is a twisted reflection of a character that's been around since *the thirties.* Everyone and their dog has fought a Kryptonian / Daxamite / whatever by now. One going all twisted and vicious was vaguely new and shocking back when the character was named Bizarro (*in 1958!*), but it's long since past it's freshness date.
If the writers want to make a new shocking villain, perhaps they could pick something less banal and tired than yet another pissed-off dark reflection of Superman? (Or Captain Marvel, in the case of Black Adam.)
Freehold DM wrote:
Also, where is Elieen? I would love to know what she thinks on this one. And I will be picking up Adventure Comics to see the further exploits of the Legion. LLL!
I haven't made it to the big city to pick up the final issue, one of the pitfall of living in rural MN, nearest comic shop is 2 hours away/
I'll be getting it soon, re-read everything in one sitting and post. Sorry for being behind.
Hides face in shame!
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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And here to give everyone a stroke
you know it's bad when I don't ever read the comics and I'm sick of him.
Wow. I . . . wow. I weep for the comics industry these days.
Its almost like that Superman Animated episode where Myxlplyk kept showing up and Superman would outsmart him in about 10 seconds, and eventually we just saw him leaving the Fifth Dimension and popping back in . . . except that episode was hilarious and entertaining.
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And here to give everyone a stroke
you know it's bad when I don't ever read the comics and I'm sick of him.
Well, gosh, he's been 'permanantly taken care of' for almost *20 days now.* It's *long* past time for him to be brought back!
Excuse me, I just rolled my eyes so hard, they fell clean out of my head...
And here to give everyone a stroke
you know it's bad when I don't ever read the comics and I'm sick of him.
See, I'm on the opposite side of the table for this. Prime + Black Lanterns = Pure Win for me. I was content to let Prime sit on the shelf for a while, but after seeing that cover, I'm jazzed.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Wow. I . . . wow. I weep for the comics industry these days.
Its almost like that Superman Animated episode where Myxlplyk kept showing up and Superman would outsmart him in about 10 seconds, and eventually we just saw him leaving the Fifth Dimension and popping back in . . . except that episode was hilarious and entertaining.
Oh gods, yes that was hilarious. And of course the perfect person to play Myxlplyk.
And shouldn't the Black Lanterns be chasing him? He should have died in the Crisis after all.
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Wow. I . . . wow. I weep for the comics industry these days.
Its almost like that Superman Animated episode where Myxlplyk kept showing up and Superman would outsmart him in about 10 seconds, and eventually we just saw him leaving the Fifth Dimension and popping back in . . . except that episode was hilarious and entertaining.
Oh gods, yes that was hilarious. And of course the perfect person to play Myxlplyk.
And shouldn't the Black Lanterns be chasing him? He should have died in the Crisis after all.
Maybe that 'mistake' can finally be corrected? If so, I won't mind his appearance quite so much.
And here to give everyone a stroke
you know it's bad when I don't ever read the comics and I'm sick of him.
I give up. No more DC or Marvel for me. I'm done with 'em.