RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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For the uninitiated, the Isz are a creatures from the comic book The Maxx, which was later made into a cartoon on MTV. The isz come from the Outback, a quasi-dream realm created by Julie, the main heroine's subconscious. Originally white, the isz becomes black upon entering our world. So I'm writing them up (the black isz anyway) as a monster in 3.5 to be converted to PFRPG as soon as I get my PF Bestiary.
I'm just trying to get my head around what Type of monster the isz happens to be. Is it a aberration? A monstrous humanoid? Or an outsider? All three of them make sense to me. I figure that it all hinges on the isz's ability to disguise itself and flawlessly appear as whatever it has been disguised as.
I'm leaning towards Outsider. Comments & Suggestions are sought.
If this thread has to be moved, I request the d20/OGL forum.
I'd go with Outsider too...
I haven't seen the show, but could it also be an Ooze? Dream realm tends towards aberrations, but also outsiders. Probably not monstrous humanoid.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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I haven't seen the show, but could it also be an Ooze? Dream realm tends towards aberrations, but also outsiders. Probably not monstrous humanoid.
No, the Isz are not oozes. They are little black humanoids about the size and temperment of a goblin. All Isz are eyeless. Black Isz are carnivores. They are stronger, faster, and have sharper teeth than white Isz. The Maxx #8 shows a sea of white Isz as part of the cover art. Note: The Maxx is the purple guy hanging from the cliffside.
Just because something comes from another plane doesn't mean it should be an outsider. They could just as easily be monstrous humanoids and just have the extraplanar subtype. For example, see "githyanki" and "githzerai."
Mr. Gone calls them "homunculi" but clearly they're not that in a traditional or d20 sense.
Likely depends on whether or not you plan on creating a new world(plane) for your party to visit that is similar to the one in the show or if you plan on just adding them to your existing world.
They could be Abberant Goblins, Demonic Goblins (like Tannaruk Orcs), Outsider Goblins, Abberant Oooze, etc.
If you couldn't tell I'm kind of partial toward some sort of goblin.
I'm not exactly sure how they formed anymore, I'll have to re-watch the VHS again, but just because a guy with "super strength" smashes them into puddles does'nt necessarily qualify them as ooze, just smashed... I know an orc barbarian that can do that much to humans.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Sean, thanks for your feedback.
If you couldn't tell I'm kind of partial toward some sort of goblin.
With the way Goblins look in Pathfinder RPG, I totally understand where you are coming from, Daniel.
I don't know how or where I'm going to finally "place" the Isz. Maybe they were the result of some demon's experiment to make goblins more to his liking. Or maybe I'll make them creatures summoned from their home plane and something about leaving it warps and corrupts them. Also, making their home "the Outback", a demi-plane with strong ties to the Realm of Dreams.
I haven't pinned it down yet.
I'm not exactly sure how they formed anymore, I'll have to re-watch the VHS again
Man, I wish The Maxx & Daria were out on DVD.
All Isz are eyeless.
I just realized that Isz are immune to Gaze attacks. woot!
Man, I wish The Maxx & Daria were out on DVD.
Oh yea, I'm pretty sure I'm on the Amazon wish list of sorts for The Maxx DVD, where you tell them to notify you when a product becomes available. That and I've had a strong urge to watch Liquid Television and pixelated low-res Youtube just isn't fulfilling.
All Isz are eyeless. I just realized that Isz are immune to Gaze attacks. woot!
That could open a whole host of problems/advantages.
o Blind Fight as a free racial feat.o Sonic vulnerability of some sort. (double dmg, temporary blindness, etc.)
If I remember correctly they also had some sort of cool 'illusion' ability where normal folks could'nt actually see them. A reverse delirium of sorts for 'Werewolf' RPG followers. Although admittedly the 'illusion' was always the same 'little old lady'. Possibly a tad Fay-like, similar to gnomes getting free spells with an above-average charisma.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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All Isz are eyeless. I just realized that Isz are immune to Gaze attacks. woot!That could open a whole host of problems/advantages.
o Blind Fight as a free racial feat.
o Sonic vulnerability of some sort. (double dmg, temporary blindness, etc.)If I remember correctly they also had some sort of cool 'illusion' ability where normal folks could'nt actually see them. A reverse delirium of sorts for 'Werewolf' RPG followers. Although admittedly the 'illusion' was always the same 'little old lady'. Possibly a tad Fay-like, similar to gnomes getting free spells with an above-average charisma.
The illusion-like ability you're talking about is the ability to appear like whatever they happened to be disguised as. Mr. Gone would always dress them up as little old ladies when he had to bring them some place else. Thus you remember only seeing little old ladies. They could've just as easily been nuns or salesmen.
I planned on giving them blindsight [60 feet]. Don't know if I'll give them a vulnerability though. Mainly, because I don't know if the ability to "see" was echo-location or not. BUT, I'm getting a supplement for the game Heroes & Heroines, which includes stats for The Maxx. So I hope to be able do a proper write-up with that.
As far as I was told by a friend who was a fan of the comic, the Iszes were a symbolic representation of mr. Gone's victims, as he killed them, cut a finger from them, and put said severed finger in a plastic bag full of water, which in the outback became an Isz, and could then cross over to the real world as black Iszes. This would make them into a bizarre kind of undead.
Now, how do you want to handle the Outback? If you want to remain as true to the source as possible, they'd have the [psionic] subtype given how the Outback doesn't exist per se, but if you prefer to handle it as an actual demi-plane, Iszes would have the [extraplanar] subtype,
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From the SRD: An outsider is at least partially composed of the essence (but not necessarily the material) of some plane other than the Material Plane.
So Isz are from another plane but they're just inhabitants. They aren't made up of that plane's essence. Actually, if what Dogbert says is true (I'm waiting to complete the run before rereading The Maxx) they're from the material plane and mutated by another plane.
From the SRD: An aberration has a bizarre anatomy, strange abilities, an alien mindset, or any combination of the three.
I want to say Aberration. Arms coming out the side of their head, no eyes, leaping ability despite short legs. Aberrations personify weirdness and Isz are weird.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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I'm pretty sure I'm on the Amazon wish list of sorts for The Maxx DVD
The next best thing: THE MAXX EPISODES. Apparently, MTV put the episodes onto their website on June 8th.
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Howabout making the Isz fey?
According to the type description, fey creatures have supernatural abilities (their disguise ability could qualify) and connections to nature or to some other force or plane (The Outback could meet all three of those descriptions.) Here are a few more reasons to make them fey.
- Fey have d6 Hit Dice (Isz aren't particularly tough.)
- Base Attack as wizards (Isz are really only dangerous in large numbers.)
- Good Reflex and Will saves (Isz are pretty nimble, and their simple minds probably make them resistant to most mind-affecting attacks.)
Fey do get 6 skill points per HD. That might seem high for an Isz, but you can spend these on things Isz are good at like Climb, Jump, Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Listen, Disguise and maybe Tumble. Fey also get proficiency with simple weapons which makes sense for an Isz who should have no trouble swinging a stick or a knife at somebody (though they'd prefer to bite.)
Maybe the best reason to make them fey is right here (the picture is from Shocker Toys, a company that produced some Isz action figures.) That's what Sarah's Isz look like later in the comic series. They're little pink fairies that explode if they aren't kept in water.
Just because something comes from another plane doesn't mean it should be an outsider. They could just as easily be monstrous humanoids and just have the extraplanar subtype. For example, see "githyanki" and "githzerai."
Mr. Gone calls them "homunculi" but clearly they're not that in a traditional or d20 sense.
Here's the problem. Creature-types aren't always assigned in a way that I'd exactly consider intuitive, and sometimes seem a bit... arbitrary, or defined by role rather than in-world logic.
Shadow Mastiff, Hell Hounds, Howlers, & Yeth Hounds are Outsiders, not Magical Beasts with the Extraplanar subtype. I can see Hell Hounds and Shadow Mastiffs as embodying the essense of their planes, but Howlers seem more like the essense of being freaky porcupine things.
How is a Roper not an Aberration? Magical Beast? Really? My guess is they wanted it to be a brute, and the aberration creature type just isn't beefy enough.
... All that said, from what I remember of the Maxx the Isz are herbivorous, but still predatory because most (or all) of the creatures in Julie's Outback/Pangea are ambulatory plants. If this includes the Isz, their creature type might be Plant.
Then again, if Mr. Gone created the Isz from the essence of those he killed (though I confess I don't remember that from the comic or the animated series,) that's remarkably like how the D&Diverse planars like angels, demons, & devils are created from souls... which would lead us back to the Outsider creature type.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Howabout making the Isz fey?
I actually considered this cause I was looking for a good way to introduce the Isz into Galorian and one thing I thought up was to make then a creature of the First World. Now that I really think of it if the First World is what Maxx calls "Australia" it makes more sense.
According to the type description, fey creatures have supernatural abilities (their disguise ability could qualify) and connections to nature or to some other force or plane (The Outback could meet all three of those descriptions.) Here are a few more reasons to make them fey.
- Fey have d6 Hit Dice (Isz aren't particularly tough.)
- Base Attack as wizards (Isz are really only dangerous in large numbers.)
- Good Reflex and Will saves (Isz are pretty nimble, and their simple minds probably make them resistant to most mind-affecting attacks.)
Fey do get 6 skill points per HD. That might seem high for an Isz, but you can spend these on things Isz are good at like Climb, Jump, Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Listen, Disguise and maybe Tumble. Fey also get proficiency with simple weapons which makes sense for an Isz who should have no trouble swinging a stick or a knife at somebody (though they'd prefer to bite.)
Maybe the best reason to make them fey is right here (the picture is from Shocker Toys, a company that produced some Isz action figures.) That's what Sarah's Isz look like later in the comic series. They're little pink fairies that explode if they aren't kept in water.
Plus, all of the reasons you've given make sense. I'm still in the gathering info/ making decisions phase. Expect to see the Isz Stat block for Pathfinder before my birthday in November.
Howabout making the Isz fey?
<snip a lot of very good reasoning>
Actually, after reading your thoughts, that does seem like a very good call.
Also, am I the only one who remembers the Outback being called Pangea at least part of the time?
Fey do get 6 skill points per HD. That might seem high for an Isz, but you can spend these on things Isz are good at like Climb, Jump, Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Listen, Disguise and maybe Tumble. Fey also get proficiency with simple weapons which makes sense for an Isz who should have no trouble swinging a stick or a knife at somebody (though they'd prefer to bite.)
Hmmm, I like the idea of them being Fey actually. 6 hp aren't -that- high for an Isz actually, given how they were often used as multi-purpose minions.
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I agree about 6 skill points not being too high myself but, given their depiction as simple-minded, I could see how somebody might think of Isz as unskilled. If I were statting one up, I'd probably even go as far as giving them a 10 INT. They have their own language, understand English and seem to be able to adapt pretty well to new surroundings. I think I even remember an Isz driving a car at some point (it's been awhile since I saw either the cartoon or the comic.)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Disguise Self is easily the spell needed to recreate the Isz's ability to appear like what they are dressed as. Below is the spell disguise self which I copied from www.d20srd.org and the version I've written for the first draft of the Isz. Now the isz's ability isn't an exact copy of The Maxx, but does grant anyone who might encounter an isz a chance of "seeing" it for what it really is.
Disguise Self
Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1, Trickery 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 min./level (D)You make yourself—including clothing, armor, weapons, and equipment—look different. You can seem 1 foot shorter or taller, thin, fat, or in between. You cannot change your body type. Otherwise, the extent of the apparent change is up to you. You could add or obscure a minor feature or look like an entirely different person.
The spell does not provide the abilities or mannerisms of the chosen form, nor does it alter the perceived tactile (touch) or audible (sound) properties of you or your equipment.
If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on the Disguise check.
A creature that interacts with the glamer gets a Will save to recognize it as an illusion.
Disguise Self (Ex): An isz can alter its appearance simply by dressing up, thus taking the appearance of whatever it has dressed up as. The extent of the apparent change is up to detail of the disguise worn.
The spell does not provide the abilities or mannerisms of the chosen form, nor does it alter the perceived tactile (touch) or audible (sound) properties of the creature.
If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on the Disguise check.
A creature that interacts with the glamer gets a Will save to recognize it as an illusion.
They sound a lot like dopplegangers, which would make them monstrous humanoids with the shapechanger subtype.
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Disguise Self (Ex): An isz can alter its appearance simply by dressing up, thus taking the appearance of whatever it has dressed up as. The extent of the apparent change is up to detail of the disguise worn.
The spell does not provide the abilities or mannerisms of the chosen form, nor does it alter the perceived tactile (touch) or audible (sound) properties of the creature.
If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on the Disguise check.
A creature that interacts with the glamer gets a Will save to recognize it as an illusion.
I suggest this be a Supernatural ability vice an Extraordinary one. It fits better with making them fey and Extraordinary abilities are usually a result of the creature's physiology (i.e. venom, water breathing, chameleon skin.) I don't know how far a departure from the original Isz you want to make but, in the series, just throwing a beehive wig, flowered dress and glasses on an Isz made them appear as old ladies. Their bodies didn't expand, contract or otherwise change shape to make the disguise work, but people who weren't familiar with The Outback were fooled whereas Mr. Gone and The Maxx always saw them as little black Isz in wigs and glasses. Since their bodies aren't actually changing form (as described in the spell and your ability description,) this makes it sound more illusory in nature (which Disguise Self is) and, therefore, magical (supernatural abilities are magical.)
Making the ability Supernatural also gives you a good Save modifier for the Will save for interaction with the disguise (10 + 1/2 HD + CHA mod.) Most extraordinary abilities saves are based on the creature's CON modifier (poison, stench, disease) because the abliity is, as stated, a physiological trait. Extraordinary abilities are also usually a free action which doesn't jibe with the Isz needing props and costumes to disguise themselves (unless they're the ultimate quick-change artists ^_^)
Still, it's your Isz.
They sound a lot like dopplegangers, which would make them monstrous humanoids with the shapechanger subtype.
Nah, it was definitely an illusion of some sort. If it were a doppelganger ability they wouldn't appear as Old Ladies to the "unaware" and as Isz to the "aware".
Though they're 'Monstrous humanoids' I think 'Fey' covers all the bases pretty well. There are quite a few Monstrous-appearing Fey, sometimes shapeshifting Fey if you venture into Folklore and Hollywood.
... <snip>...Extraordinary abilities are usually a result of the creature's physiology (i.e. venom, water breathing, chameleon skin.
... <snip>...Their bodies didn't expand, contract or otherwise change shape to make the disguise work, but people who weren't familiar with The Outback were fooled whereas Mr. Gone and The Maxx always saw them as little black Isz in wigs and glasses.
... <snip>...(supernatural abilities are magical.)
Making the ability Supernatural also gives you a good Save modifier for the Will save for interaction with the disguise (10 + 1/2 HD + CHA mod.) Extraordinary abilities are also usually a free action which doesn't jibe with the Isz needing props and costumes to disguise themselves...
I agree with Velcro in that their Disguise should be Supernatural, or Spell-like. Props aand costumes aside, cartoon characters very rarely have the need to carry equipment pulling most things from their nether regions. Further reinforcing Supernatural or Spell-like... and the need for a Standard Action.
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An interesting thought...
Fluff: What about those who CAN see them? What makes someone capable of seeing an Isz on a regular basis? The Maxx was NOT the sharpest tool in the shed, actually quite the opposite, to the point of madness.
Crunch: Seems to imply that someone who would greatly Fail a 'Will save' or have NO chance at all of success would be so daft as to not be able to even percieve the illusion. If I remember correctly, Julie didn't SEE the Isz for what they were numerous times in the 'modern world', but the manic-depressive girl she was working with could also see them right off the bat, something to do with being unattached to reality maybe?
Eventually characters will level high enough to see through the illusion easily. That could prove problematic for an on-going campaign idea.
I envision the campaign going something along the lines of the "Gremlins" meets Alien-Conspiracy... It starts out typical, an Isz gets discovered, then a few more. Other people are fearing for their lives as they become 'aware' and people think them crazy when they speak about it. The more toes the players step on the more "The Matrix" sends Agent Smith clones to DEAL with them.
In game terms I'd say it's more of an Enchantment [charm, mind-affecting] than an Illusion.
Illusion spells deceive the senses or minds of others. A glamer spell changes a subject’s sensory qualities, making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else.
Illusions often allow a save of Will (interact), which seems to fit the bill here as well.
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I don't think KissMeDarkly intends to make a carbon copy of the Isz from the series. That's usually a bad idea because the game mechanics rarely allow you to perfectly match the source material or just leads to retarded levels of power or rules that are unprecedented. The save suggested by KissMeDarkly (and Disguise Self) is fine because only creatures that interact with the disguise are going to know what's up.
The illusion doesn't need to be super-powerful or something only magic-inclined characters can perceive because the rules of the game aren't the rules of the comic or cartoon series.
but the manic-depressive girl she was working with could also see them right off the bat, something to do with being unattached to reality maybe?
Sarah could see the Isz because her father was Mr. Gone, and she had a touch of her father's magic in her. This is also why Sarah had Isz of her own (the little pink fairies.) Still, that's the comic. The same rules needn't apply to a D&D game.
True seeing or any antimagic should be able to help people see through the disguise or suppress it. That's all that need be done.
Sarah could see the Isz because her father was Mr. Gone, and she had a touch of her father's magic in her.
Totally forgot that part, to include her name. I really need to rewatch it here shortly, lol.
Thinking about monsters in previou editions of the game, it strikes me this should be an aberration.
Lots of nightmare monsters and creatures touched by the Far Realms were aberrations, as are many shapechanging creatures.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Thinking about monsters in previous editions of the game, it strikes me this should be an aberration.
Lots of nightmare monsters and creatures touched by the Far Realms were aberrations, as are many shapechanging creatures.
The isz started out as Aberrations. But as I began the designing of them, That's why this thread started out asking the question: Which Type? Aberration, Monstrous Humanoid, or Outsider? As I began to look at the design aspects of monsters closer, I began feeling that aberrations weren't a perfect match. While mechanically the Isz could be any of them, I've decided to go with the Fey Type for these reasons:
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Zipper, I'm tweeking the ability in general. But I agree with you on changing it from Extraordinary to Supernatural better fits the ability. It should've been Supernatural from the start.
I don't think KissMeDarkly intends to make a carbon copy of the Isz from the series. That's usually a bad idea because the game mechanics rarely allow you to perfectly match the source material or just leads to retarded levels of power or rules that are unprecedented. The save suggested by KissMeDarkly (and Disguise Self) is fine because only creatures that interact with the disguise are going to know what's up.
Zipper, you are correct in all of this. The Isz I plan on releasing will be geared more towards making a playable monster that feels as much like an Isz as I possibly can. I'm going to try to keep the CR down to a CR 3-6. But I have a list of 15-20 things that I'll try to work into the final Isz.
Fey Type
Tiny (1 1/5 ft. tall)
No Eyes
Illusion Disguise
Bite attack
Movement
Skilled
Taint (Taint of the Crossing)
Temperment similar to goblins of Galorion
[B]Languages (Maybe Tongues?)
Has anyone brought up:
"That would depend on what the definition of 'Isz' is."
"Swallow Whole" as a D&D mechanic only allows a creature to swallow something 2 sizes smaller than itself, you have them listed as tiny. Is there a size smaller than minute?
Medium > Small > Tiny > Minute... Microscopic?
I would say they are actually small in size, but that doesn't really fix the "swallow whole" issue and it's usefulness. Perhaps this IS one of those mechanics better left in the cartoon, similar to pulling dynamite out of ones nether regions with a lit fuse.
If going for the "ones on your head/arm" thing, maybe some sort of grapple ability would be better suited? Similar to a wolf's trip attack.
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Not sure about talking, might be like Griffons, which can understand, but not speak.
Medium > Small > Tiny > Diminutive > Fine
Oops, sorry should've looked it up first.
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Just some random notes...
SIZE: By description, the Isz are only about 1.5 ft. in height, but they do sometimes look a little taller. I think that's because they're usually shown in panels with Maxx and Maxx is usually stooping and hunched over so you never get a clear indication of how tall he is. I'd say tiny is about right. At most, they're a small Small.
DISGUISE:Limited by what they are dressed up as
Knowledge of the Isz negates
Does this mean anybody who knows what an Isz is would automatically detect the ruse? I'd just let them keep up their disguises unless they're viewed with divination magic or a creature passes a will save. However, you could make it a collective disguise. If one Isz is spotted, so are the others in a group.
BITE: can bite through metal (CHOMP!) Give their teeth adamantine damage allowing them to bite through hardness? (Isz Swarm vs. Iron Golem?)
Swallow Whole Size makes this a problem; possibly replace with Attach (as Dire Weasel.)
White/Dark ISZ: 99% of Isz gain the taint that turns them into Dark Isz when they enter into our world.
Summoning an Isz automatically gives them the Taint of the Crossing
Might not have any game effects, but white isz are strict vegetarians. Most creatures in The Outback are actually made up of plant matter which is why you see white isz hunting and eating other creatures there.
TEMPERAMENT: similar to goblins of Golarion Dark isz are probably chaotic neutral. They don't seem inherently malicious, but do have a bit of a (heh, heh) dark sense of humor. In The Outback, white isz are usually much calmer, probably true neutral. They just live to eat and leap and don't appear to have an agenda.
LANGUAGES: I don't have a copy of the comics at hand, but I'm pretty sure isz can speak. They have their own language (summed up by the word "meep,") and they definitely understood English. For game purposes, I'd give them Common, Sylvan and their own language (Meep.) Alternately, I'd say Meep is an isz dialect of Sylvan and anyone capable of speaking Sylvan can understand Meep.
BITE: can bite through metal (CHOMP!) Give their teeth adamantine damage allowing them to bite through hardness? (Isz Swarm vs. Iron Golem?)
That would make for a pretty cool dramatic cut-scene at some point for a bunch of low to mid level adventurers to wander upon.
Swallow Whole Size makes this a problem; possibly replace with Attach (as Dire Weasel).
Great idea, totally forgot about "Attach".
LANGUAGES: their own language (Meep).
At which point you could buy black and white meeples at meeplepeople.com in large quantities! Though I think a meeple is 'small' scale, maybe one could represent 4 for the purposes of 'Swarmfighting'. *shrug*
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At which point you could buy black and white meeples at meeplepeople.com in large quantities! Though I think a meeple is 'small' scale, maybe one could represent 4 for the purposes of 'Swarmfighting'. *shrug*
I just checked out that site. I don't know how big those things are but, if they fit in a standard battlemat square, they'd be great for large groups of nondescript commoners even if they are too big to be isz.