Sorry Dark Sun is a favorite of mine. Do what you will it doesn't matter, the only question is at the end of the day, "What's eating you?"
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Here are a few ideas. Use them, build on them, dip them in honey mustard...
IV. CLIMAX: (love that word) The PCs seek the source of this great "monster" because: the longer they stay in the demiplane, the greater the chances they will become a permanent part of it. Every week, the party could be forced to make an increasingly difficult Will save to remain in control of their own actions. This could mean they simply become content to never leave, some fragment of Zennasha's mind inhabits their body or they become one of the monsters sent to deal with troublemaking PCs. Obviously, they'd want find the source of their trouble and deal with it.
A. Zennasha is really: the PC druid's uncle's neighbor's grandmother's best friend's college roommate! Okay, maybe not. Zennasha could be just what you described her as; a well-meaning druid who went a little street-rat crazy and made a mistake. She might be the anchor keeping the demiplane in place or an amnesiac avatar of the nature deity. Maybe she's the pawn of a demon or slaad lord who gave her a stacked DoMT (deck o' many things) in order to sow chaos on the material plane. She could be all of these things? Regardless of what she is, I think it's important to know her reasons for allowing the demiplane to persist even though she seems to be aware it isn't exactly the forest she originally wanted to protect. Either (1) she's convinced it is the exact same forest and still part of the material plane so she thinks she's only using power given to her by her wishes to do what she's been doing for the last 200 years or (2) she knows the forest has been trapped in a demiplane, she can't do anything about it and she's decided that's good enough since she only wanted to protect that particular forest and trapping it in a demiplane seems to have done the job.
B. Zennasha can be destroyed by: convincing the earth mother to allow her to die. I'm guessing she isn't just immune to aging, but death itself, so stabbing her and shooting her full of spells wouldn't work. Zennasha would need to get back in the good graces of the earth mother or have another manifestation of death accept her (Orcus?...nah.) If the party can find out what she did to cheese off Mother Nature, they might be able to confront Zennasha with it or commune with a mediator of the goddess. Alternately, the destruction doesn't have to mean death. Nature is cyclical so it stands to reason, the earth mother only meant Zennasha could never permanently die. It might be possible to stab her and shoot her full of spells until she enters a new cycle of her existence. As soon as she reaches zero hit points, she might take on a new aspect giving the party a chance to deal with a more rational Zennasha.
C. Zennasha's demi-plane can be destroyed by: another wish from the DoMT, the destruction of Zennasha, divine intervention or maybe a rupture of its border with the material plane (like popping a bubble.) If planar travel is made available to the party (even a Shadow Walk spell,) they might be able to get outside the demiplane, find its borders and seek a way to tear them open. I don't have the Epic Level Handbook in front of me, but there is an epic level spell that allows a caster to create their own demiplane. You might look at that spell for ideas on how to dispel such a demiplane. Since it could be argued that the wish twisted the magical ether into a version of this spell, the demiplane might be able to collapse if Zennasha were convinced to dispel the effect.
D. Zennasha can be redeemed by: beating some sense into her, shocking her into understanding, direct contact with the earth mother (perhaps facilitated by a possessed PC or mediator outsider,) restoring her fractured psyche (if you use the split-mind scenario,) finding out what she did to make her goddess angry and convince her to repent or fix whatever she did.
E. Complications due to the Deck of Many Things include: a DoMT is an artifact. Aside from the multitude of things that could happen if Zennasha were tricked or convinced into pulling cards from the deck, the deity or power involved in the deck's creation or placement in Zennasha's hands might exact some influence over it or anybody possessing it. Using the "Zennasha as pawn of powerful outsider" example, a devil prince may have deduced all this would happen if he gave a stacked DoMT to Zennasha. With the demiplane so close to the material plane, he might have designs to use her demiplane as a waypoint for an invasion of the party's homeworld.
I like the idea of Zennasha being influenced by an evil entity via the DoMT. It could be a devil who subtly influenced her for some time being, making her think about taking extreme measures to protect the nature. Then, all of sudden, she gets the rigged DoMT and surprisingly draws a wish, which she words under the devils influence in a way that produces the demiplane. She is bound to the plane and sees it all as perfect (under the devils subtle influence - no charm, as that might be detectable. Perhaps the wish influenced her mind as well, and changed it.)
The devil wants to use the demiplane as a staging ground for some attack or other action on prime material, which needs a staging ground close to the PM that can be influenced by the devils nature - perhaps they need a breeding ground for some special creature(s) to unleash. One really odd idea might be that these are demonic creatures normally associated with a certain demon lord to be unleashed in an area where worshippers of another demon lord have taken hold, so as to set two demon lords at odds - with the devils being able to collect the spoils.
So, the devil tries to influence Zennasha to become Chaotic Evil rather than Lawful Evil, as her essence is bound into the demiplane now and the plane changes alignment with her, and a chaotic evil environment is needed.
That even one of the mortals drawn into the demiplane could resist the mind-influencing power was not something that the devil ever considered. This made Old Wat more than a little mad, but still sane enough to realize that something wrong, and the monster being somehow linked to it all. It might be some CE creature just being formed in the central point of the demiplane, and being still weak right now (some nabassu come to mind, as they mature by killing folks of the PM).
The demiplane needs a point of entry/exit, which the PCs found accidentally, but which is protected by villagers-turned-monsters (a foreshadowing of other transformations). Zennasha in her state of mind is fond of protecting the entry in that way, which uses villagers as sword fodder (is this CE ? I´m not sure. It is evil, of course, but what kind of evil?). Her reasoning is that she is the only one to protect this wilderness properly, and simply does not care about anything else. The delusion takes further root with the breeding of the creatures, who in her mind are protectors of the wilderness. Her mind will completely shatter should the creatures reach maturity and leave to attack the PM as planned, creating a completely CE demiplane infused with her essence, randomly summoning CE creatures and sending them into the PM (for starters), rampaging through woodlands there.
As an aside, you might reason that she retains all her abilities on the demiplane, as the nature is essentially perverted in a way that it coincides with whatever evil alignment she might happen to have at the moment.
Getting back Old Wats wife helps him stabilizing what is left of his sanity, so he can point the PCs to the growing creatures den (how does he know? is it an old place of evil anyway?). He thinks that the creature is the reason for all their trouble, but it is obvious to the PCs that this is not the whole story. Killing the creature sets Zennasha against the PCs in her state of mind. She is strongly linked to the demiplane, and killing her just lets her essence unite with the plane, which must be made obvious to the PCs (if need be, Ol Wat has a vision about it.) So, they have to keep her alive, while she wants to kill them. This might be the point at which the PC druid has do something, like talking her out of it. If he changed into chaotic evil, this is quite a challenge, but if he succeeds, he regains his original alignment.
(The devil, BTW, cannot access the demiplane once it starts turning CE, but the grownig creature is sure to break out at a certain point, so he is content to wait. He does not know what goes on inside, but might discover that the PCs entered. Did anyone draw the Enemy card? This might be it. As an aside, the devils powers were sufficient to influence the DoMT just once, not permanently.)
The PCs need to have Zennasha leaving the demiplane, this is difficult because she is still bound to it. Perhaps she needs to be out of the plane before she can even regain her former state of mind - at which point the devil surely attacks, as he knows that his plan is ruined.
If she regains her mind, perhaps the demiplane (and she herself?) just fades from existence, as the demiplane just existed because she wished it into existence, and is linked to her twisted state of mind.
I know, probably quite crazy and not fitting in every regard, but the ideas just started to flow once I started writing.
Stefan
Sorry Dark Sun is a favorite of mine. Do what you will it doesn't matter, the only question is at the end of the day, "What's eating you?"Why the acid reflux reference? I hope I didn't come across acidic?
-Pax
It's not, and nothing like that... I'm just pointing out why I really like dark sun. As a player you can just let it go and play all out, because you are going to die. It's a given. So you can worry more about other things. And since its dark sun whatever kills you is probably going to eat you too.
I mean in Dark Sun you can go ahead and play that drug addicted elf, or thrikreen with a life span of 5 years, because you probably aren't going to see the next 2 years in game anyways.
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...some clarifying stuff...
Thanks. And, yes, I enjoyed Dark Sun for many of the same reasons, as life was nasty, brutish and short. .... A state of harsh nature, in which PCs aren't likely to survive... But then again, that is a trope that has been slowly lost with regard to traditional fantasy adventuring since 1e.... that is, even the industry of being adventurers seems to have given rise (in this generations minds) to magic shops and character builds to ensure survival. .... nothing against that..... its just that Dark Sun to me, outside of the water scarcity, demagog dragon-king military state, and its devouring sands.... wasn't that afar from regular tropes in its original flavor.... however.... looking back now, whatever... 17 years or so.... it sure seems different from the flavor of the day now.
(sorry for the derailment..... if Dark Sun were a d20 system, I'd start a thread talking about that too. But as it stands I want nothing more to do with the IP owners. If I want dark sun, ..... and I do..... I'll just repurchase TSR products and play 2e.
I'm glad you like the setting so much. I did too. I ran a Dark Sun campaign from ... er, 1991-93. We had a blast!
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In case you didn't know...
Direct your peepers at Dragon Magazine #319 for the 3.5 Dark Sun player's guide. Issue #315 covers Defiler Magic and #351 has a short Dark Sun feature as well.
I never cared for the setting very much. DS and Ravenloft were far too oppressive for my tastes. I was more into Spelljammer and Al-Qadim. Neogi off the port bow! Have those hippo men light up the bombard and we'll open up their broadside!
Beholder circuit FTW.
I was more into Spelljammer and Al-Qadim. Neogi off the port bow! Have those hippo men light up the bombard and we'll open up their broadside!
Beholder circuit FTW.
[threadjack]
Loved those two settings as well. I got Al-Qadim complete sitting on my shelf, and am slowly collecting missing Spelljammer stuff via ebay.[/threadjack]
Stefan
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By popular request, here's an update on this particular adventure...
DATELINE: Monday Night's Pathfinder RPG Beta Playtest
World: Homebrew
Exec Summary: The PCs drew more cards!!!
After preparing for many different possibilities as a game master, I decided to eat dinner and pop the top off an ice-cold Coors Light for the beginning of this session.
a. Since the party cleric drew the VOID from the Deck of Many Things last session, the player needed a new character. Since the party was 8th level, Sajan, the Pathfinder Iconic made a perfect and quick solution!
b. The adventure started with a naked fighter feeling uncomfortable in his plate mail, as he had drawn the RUIN card last session, and all his non-magical items in the world vanished. He was however holding a bag of jewelry from the JEM card, and a Sunsword from his KEY card.
Side Note: because this adventure occurs in a demi-plan, I have modified the DoMT only slightly by not returning cards to the deck for reuse (as normal). The reason is story effectiveness - I simply do not wish to deal with another VOID so soon after last week, plus, its reasonable since this "bubble" of a demi-plane can affect the mechanics of the universal forces at play... I plan to re-stock the deck for next session though.
c. Old Wat (the NPC) suddenly heard his atrophed wife's voice calling him from the loft above the watermill. Since the PC drew the VOID, he took on his wife's VOID, and she was restored with her soul (as suggested in an earlier post). Overjoyed, he offered to help the party, and told them to seek out the Mayor of Kolderton in town who was suspected to know more about this "demi-plane."
d. You may recall the PC druid drew the BALANCE card last session (the very card that sparked this thread). Now, the PC druid was assigned the alignment of CE by the gamemaster (me). This was as much of a radical shift as I could deem believable. And he began acting evil - very subtle and well. The PC chose, however to draw two more cards from the deck, then proceeded to try to fight-against this evil inside him. He drew the MOON and the COMET. As the gamemaster I track every passing day against a campaign calendar that I created and cross-referenced the current phase of the moon to be half-moon, so the PC received 2 wishes!
d1-a. MOON - the PC wished to have the PC cleric (who drew the VOID) returned to normal - unfortunately the wording of the wish was not specific enough and nothing changed. (I provided 2 three minutes via an egg timer to meta-game discuss options, prior to making his wish. This was a classic 2e courtesy always offered to me, so I continued this tradition.)
d1- The PC wished also to win the struggle that was taking place inside him. As the wish did not specify more about the struggled, nor did it specify the when, - nothing changed.
d2. COMET - the party was beset upon by Hill Howlers (as this is a strange demi-plane, any creature would do), and the COMET card implied the PC must defeat the nearest Hill Howler to gain a level. After the Hill Howlers were destroyed.. they appeared as slaughtered townsfolk (which provided a reminder of last session to the PCs - and provoked a sad, eerie feeling of guilt on their part. Mwahaha.)
e. The party druid's choice - HE choice to fight the evil, and after riding the water wheel to the top of the watermill, he dove in the river, and swam to the other side. His choice was to fight the evil rather than accept the new alignment, and I took away a level. He was now role-playing his own demise, figuring, in good druid fashion, he would go to the woods like a dying pup and lose levels until he was dead - fighting the evil inside him. A fine choice, I must say, and certainly within the scope of the game, and PC peragotative to do so.
f. Meanwhile the PC halfling rogue (think LEM), picks the JESTER card (nothing happens), and the KNIGHT card - a diminutive Paladin appears to protect the halfling. We had a great rp time with that! This knight, Arros, will continue on until destroyed (I've given him 2 teleport powers per day, and deemed he is somewhat axiomatic with a golden sheen to his skin (perhaps a distant Aasimar, who knows?) Anywho..., the party wizard (sorcerer actually) asks to see the deck and plans on drawing from it. But (funny) when the player left the room, the halfling who gave her the deck decided that it was a bad idea and used a FATES card he had drawn to reverse his own action. When the player returned, he was like, "hand me the deck" and we were all like..."what deck?" The halfling has stowed away the rest of the deck in a secret water-proof compartment of his scroll case. And that should be the end of the cards (at least for a while).
Now, back to our particular "hero" of this adventure.... the PC Druid...
e1. Zennasha appears to the PC Druid and explains her story: that she is an ex-druid who fell into consort with evil powers and a poorly worded wish has trapped her in this demi-plane; that she uses the demi-plane to lead people in and they slowly forget where they came from; that she morphs some into beasts who chase down and destroy new visitors; that some of the townsfolk are just figments of her imagination, or drawn from the consciousness of those who enter her demi-plane; that this demi-plane is anchored on-top of the actual realms. (now, this conversation was much more fluid, but these are the points the Druid PC perceived to have been learned).
e2. The Druid PC, still fighting the evil, decides to hand her a dagger, and kneels before her, bravely accepting his own death. He explains that he, "had saved more forests than her, that he saves LIFE, not just the woodlands, that in this single act of self-sacrifice, he does more for the balance than she has ever done!"
Note: As a GM, this is the moment we wait for - these precious culminating character-prooving role-play moments. Well done, I thought, well done indeed!
So.........
e3. I allowed his second wish to take place at-that-moment. The three gods of neutrality reached through the bubbled barier of this demi-plan and as Zennasha plunged the dagger into the back of the PCs skull... the PC stood up, with a RESTORED ALIGNMENT OF N, having gained three levels (one for each of the gods who heard, and conspired to fulfill, his second wish.) Nice touch, huh?
>He gained the level he lost from fighting the evil, plus two more. His PC character is now 10th level. And as a GM I am abundantly okay with that. He is technically the defacto party leader now since the Cleric PC is in VOID, and he is technically a landed Noble anyhow (a gift from the Baronness for saving her a few adventure arcs ago...).
>In addition: (for those who have given me the courtesy of reading this long, but fascinating account, I thank you.) In addition, what you may not know is that particular player is the youngest of the players. At age 21, he has now played in this weekly group consistently for three years, beginning when he was just in high-school. He has grown from not knowing how to play the game, to having tried GMing, to having demonstrated excellence in role-play and character depth, and grown to feel comfortable with the deep immersive rp as well as the high technical nature of playing Pathfinder RPG RAW. I commend him, I am very proud - and that was a fitting moment for him.
>The player left the session saying, "That was freeking awesome!" and "I'm still reeling from how cool that was!"
What this reminded me, is that newer players have not been through all these amazing, and very classic epic moments before. I was so very glad to have gotten the input and wisdom from those who contributed to this thread to make last night's session simply marvelous!
And...................... the game continued.....
g. The PCs investigated the mayor's office in town, but it was dark inside, and aged and decript with a dirt floor. I used the EARTH WEIRD from MMII to give the PCs a throtleing. At CR 12, they finally took it down with a several sold bashes from the new Sunsword and also the new improved PC Druid at 10th level!
g1. The EARTH WEIRD, as it was dying, said, "I am ... dying.... I am this demi-plane's ... anchor.... I am dying.... I was the ... anchor..." And with that, the PC felt the demi-plane sway side to side like one of those little bridges they have in haunted houses.
[END OF SESSION!]
Now.... what loose ends shall we attend to?
>They must all find and destroy Zennasha, the plane, or find a way back home (hopefully with Old Wat and his wife Guenivere in tow).
Thoughts?
Nice. Very nice. Both DM and players.
*jealous of your game table*
Now, how to pop the wish wrought demi-plane bubble...
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I don't know the players or the way alignment-changing magic works in your game but, personally, I think it smacks a bit of metagaming.
It sounds like this guy just didn't want to play evil so he figured he'd come up with a more mature way to dispose of his character than simply throwing a fit or having the druid kill himself on the spot. It doesn't sound like the alignment change was very immediate or drastic (at least from your description of what happened.) Seems like he was just playing his old alignment with a crisis of faith but, if it worked out for the story you were trying to tell, I guess that's all that matters. I'm not trying to disparage your guy. I've just seen the type of playing I described far too often.
I don't know the players or the way alignment-changing magic works in your game but, personally, I think it smacks a bit of metagaming.
It sounds like this guy just didn't want to play evil so he figured he'd come up with a more mature way to dispose of his character than simply throwing a fit or having the druid kill himself on the spot. It doesn't sound like the alignment change was very immediate or drastic (at least from your description of what happened.) Seems like he was just playing his old alignment with a crisis of faith but, if it worked out for the story you were trying to tell, I guess that's all that matters. I'm not trying to disparage your guy. I've just seen the type of playing I described far too often.
Didn't look at it as the character trying 'suicide by other'. hmm...
I see the point, but alignment changes are tricky. Some view it as a an epiphany, but it also does nothing to squash a player's memories or the knowledge of how they would fit in amongst their PC companions. How they reconcile the new POV against their track record is the challenge. An alignment change could mean the 'death' of the PC in terms of party, making them an outcast if the party doesn't take up the gauntlet of 'returning them to the path'. An evil character in a good group wouldn't fit in, but have a whole slew of paths to take; retirement, manipulation, Jekyll/Hyde episodes. All of which take a lot of roleplaying.
It's hard not to metagame this change, nor manage the migration in one game session. I almost think the burden of redemption should fall on the party, as they note increasing tendencies of the druid to sway and try to steer them back.
We have related issues in my PF campaign. Some of our players don't think alignment is a big deal. PCs are 'above' such things. Other players believe it is important, as do I. Eg. We have a paladin, that frequently uses their Detect Evil. One player decides that his alignment is going to be LE, knowing that this will cause a conflict, but doesn't think alignment is important. Now, the LE player has not demonstrated any evil tendencies, but would still pop up on the radar. I'm trying to manage the metagaming there.
Another issue is another player that got pissed because I expected his cleric to play Neutral Good as described. He retired the character, rolled up a new fighter/sorcerer (LN) with a Celestial bloodline, but is trying to run it as a mercenary. LN aside, the bloodline 'pushes' you towards goodness, since you are watched by the Celestial Court as you advance. This guy is focussed on 'what' his character is and not 'who' it is. More metagaming.
*sigh*
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I don't know the players or the way alignment-changing magic works in your game but, personally, I think it smacks a bit of metagaming.
It sounds like this guy just didn't want to play evil so he figured he'd come up with a more mature way to dispose of his character than simply throwing a fit or having the druid kill himself on the spot. It doesn't sound like the alignment change was very immediate or drastic (at least from your description of what happened.) Seems like he was just playing his old alignment with a crisis of faith but, if it worked out for the story you were trying to tell, I guess that's all that matters. I'm not trying to disparage your guy. I've just seen the type of playing I described far too often.
I hear what you're saying. This was a different case. The PC literally withdrew, heading off to meet his end. Selecting for himself, first to fight the evil, knowing full well, I would extend the full meaning behind the level drain... up to multiple level drains and death if he chose to fight.
And I do credit this guy, for selecting that type of "end" for his character. He didn't choose to seek out Zenasha for a death-by-other. No way.
I brought Zenasha in..... As a GM you look around and have a sense of timing for things, I had her come around because it provided heightened drama, and delivered story meaning/background/context, and answered some questions about what was really going on.
In a game, generally, when a player makes a decision like that, its amazing to see what a sudden twist will do. So when Zanasha threatened to destroy him, that's when he explained that her sad goals of killing life were meaningless and evil.
He chose to use his current situation to explain his views to her, to challenge her. The player reached for his own dagger and handed it to her as an after thought of providing this bold message.
And he stood in faith of the neutral gods of my realm, explaining to Zanasha that had indeed gone astray, and that he himself would fight at all costs..... - - that's when the death-by-other came up, that's when he showed her that his conscience of duty to the neutral gods was clear, that's when he explained that she had sold out and lost her way.
So, yeah....................... it was mighty fine, worked with the story, and sometimes, no matter how many ways it could have gone...... a GM recognizes great rp with reward. And, there are more complelling deep stories like this one that I have sometimes developed and dragged out for whole years! But this one, surprisingly, with all the CARDS drawn, coupled with a potential destruction of the PC druid, before I could bring the PC into direct conflict with Zanasha ... just accelerated the story in this case, most swiftly.
I agree with all of your wonderful ideas. And would have used them. In this case I remained very fluid, listened well to the story immediacy, and jumped on the chance of rewarding some excellent player choices with profound and wondrous outcomes!!!!
Its not every day that wishes are involved. And its not every day the youngest at the table has such an integral role in an adventure..... he merited this outcome wholly - and wasn't metagaming for gain. If you saw how he played this character since March 2008, you would have been very proud too.
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I agree with all of your wonderful ideas. And would have used them. In this case I remained very fluid, listened well to the story immediacy, and jumped on the chance of rewarding some excellent player choices with profound and wondrous outcomes!!!!
Don't worry about it. I just provided the parts, Doc; it's your monster.
I don't get to use even half the ideas I have for campaigns and encounters so it's always nice to contribute some to people who might find a use for them. If you're interested, I'm chronicling my own campaign here. I've recently begun to incorporate photo illustrations to enhance the posts.
Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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Pax, Bravo on a great campaign! I have been reading this thread for a while, and have to say that you and your players both deserve kudos for your style of play.
And a great deal of credit should go to all the posters who helped with this adventure.
My phylactery's off to you!
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Some plans for this coming Monday:
I am open to ideas to sew this all up....nicely.
>Should be a big "conclusion" to this story arc
>There should be a big battle with a "minion" like the tree we were talking about upthread.
>There should be a battle with Zanasha (guaranteed) as the Druid PC will want to seek her out
>There will be some grand exposition, as the Druid PC has not yet conveyed what transpired, or what he knows of Zannasha
>There will likely be a collapse or a "floating away" of this demi plane (now that it is "unanchored" from their world.
>>>>> Might be nice that when they finally do get out, to have them floating somewhere 100 miles in the air.....as the plane bubble drifts away in its 12 mile hex glory....... oh, nice! Maybe get picked up by a Gnomish airship! Wow - that pretty Trump, isn't it!?
>There should also be a note of finality for the Castlegrounds and the town, and Old Wat and his wife
>The PC who is being asked to take-over lordship of the castle could find that it is indeed run-down, but a part of the plane bubble ripped away, leaving him with magical beasts and animated castle servants within the castle..... :) Maybe the garden and grounds and castle remain pristinely kept up so long as he agrees to keep both the monsters in the dungeon and the castle staff are not dispelled (I'm thinking little talking brooms and such)
>And, the PCs will need to find a place for their fallen VOID friend. I hope they do not resort to the cards. If they do, then I will restock the deck so that the VOID is there along with MOON.
If they cannot help the Cleric, he will rest in-state beneath the Barony's castle (about 20 miles away) for many long years, and the Baroness will care for him. (Interestingly enough, in the first MEGA-ARC of this campaign, the Baroness abdicated while running from evil forces and a plan was hatched to trap-the-soul with her.... so the two of them are like star-crossed lovers being both approximately same age/race and already showing affection at the celebration ball recently. Perhaps this is why she learns to feel so strongly for him - - - -and what happened to Old Wat and his wife is now upon the Baroness and the Cleric. Perfect ending there. A fine ending to a very fine character, but hopes of bringing him back later, when the party is oh..... say 12th or 13th level. (Maybe for a miracle and a wedding, but that's down the road). And Sajan, from the PAIZO blog has been renamed Sojann. I like having the new PFRPG monk around anyhow.
The PCs should make their way back to the Barony somehow, and, I have a feeling the Druid PC will be taking a long, and much deserved rest. And, perhaps this is a good time to take a campaign break of say, a year or two....(in game time).
Additionally, I might offer the GM seat to someone else for 1-2 weeks to let the liquid awesome settle a bit - - - and get to be a Pathfinder player for a short while.
Other ideas?
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How high up in the sky would the PCs need to be to take in the view of approximately 500-600 square miles. That's how big the Kingdom is, and this is a perfect time to symbolically lift the story from one of the microcosm (the Barony) to the Kingdom (multiple baronies, and interplay).
Literally, how many feet is a safe amount to both have the view and still expect the Sorcerer to find something in her cloak to get the party safely down?
Thanks.
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How high up in the sky would the PCs need to be to take in the view of approximately 500-600 square miles. That's how big the Kingdom is, and this is a perfect time to symbolically lift the story from one of the microcosm (the Barony) to the Kingdom (multiple baronies, and interplay).
Literally, how many feet is a safe amount to both have the view and still expect the Sorcerer to find something in her cloak to get the party safely down?
The city of Los Angeles takes up approximately 498.3 square miles of space. To see an area that size with the naked eye, your party would need to be at least 5000ft in the air (assuming you don't want terrain and buildings to ruin your view.) For an area 500-600 square miles in size, I'd guess maybe 7000ft.
"Safe" is largely dependent on what the sorcerer has available at the moment. A handful of feather tokens ain't gonna do it, but a scroll of teleport should do the trick.
As far as the other stuff goes, for some reason I was thinking it would be really bizarre to have the earth weird's remains create a funnel through which the entire demiplane is slowly being sucked out. Sort of like a balloon deflating with a black hole effect. Basically, the balloon eventually sucks itself into the hole and nothing emerges from the other side. It just ceases to be. The party could have X amount of time to find a means of escape and that brings them into conflict with Zennasha, her monster or whatever. Then you'd get to have a suspenseful, timed encounter where the party has to defeat or elude the BBEG before their time runs out or the imploding demiplane sucks them all into the Astral Plane.
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The city of Los Angeles takes up approximately 498.3 square miles of space. To see an area that size with the naked eye, your party would need to be at least 5000ft in the air (assuming you don't want terrain and buildings to ruin your view.) For an area 500-600 square miles in size, I'd guess maybe 7000ft.
How did you get so smart? Awesome.
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How did you get so smart? Awesome.
I've got a few levels of Bard so I used my Bardic Lore ability coupled with a Gather Information check I rolled while talking to a pegasus.
It has absolutely nothing to do with helicopters or what I might be doing with them. There are no helicopters in the enchanted forest. What's a helicopter? Sounds like crazy wizard speak to me. I don't speak crazy wizard. Check my character sheet if you don't believe me.
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... you're too much.
I gave the swirly some thought...
I'd like the mud-drain to suck out all the imaginary creatures first. Monsters and NPCs will get drawn to it so the town will get flooded with creatures.......
Next, I think I'd like to make the "original" path through Zennasha's Clencherheart Wood to be the sole exit. That would explain why Old Wat never found a way out while he was caring for his wife who was affected by the VOID card.
I kind of imagine somehow, that the PCs are running through the woods, Old Wat holding his atrophed wife, and the forest is disappearing behind them! Very cinematic.
Then up ahead, they see what appears to be the end of the path, but with only clouds and wind passing like as though behind a large arching portal.
THAT'S WHERE THE BATTLE WITH ZENNASHA TAKES PLACE!!!!!
I can bust out the grid, minis, creature-servants, and Zennasha. I can see which PCs make it to the portal at the expense of AOOs. And, when they get there, they find that the plane is floating ABOVE the kingdom (with VZ's measured preciseness..... since I have a 3" x 4" foot homemade map of the entire kingdom on the wall of my gameroom.)
Ooooohh... very gritty, and incidentally something that bespeaks of apocalypse and chaos. Let's just hope the sorcerer has something to get them down.
Would it be TOO much of a stretch for them to fall upon a Gnomish airship.
That would be a total cherry-on-top!
*Caveat: remember, I usually (and for the past three years) run a very naturalistic, gygaxian, high realism and medium fantasy realm). So, as a departure, I've got this group totally with me...... yet, I think falling on top an airship is just too contrived....
Maybe we should start listing what "FEATHER FALLING" items can actually save the day?
Is there a particular "group falling safely magic item" or spell, that the PCs might earn before this point in the game that would be the ticket down safely?
I mean..... in theory, couldn't something like rope trick at least buy them some time?
We will likely have:
>PC Unconscious Cleric
>Old Wat
>Old Wat's Atrophed Wife, Guenivere
>An axiomatic, 1/2 celestial Halfling Paladin (don't ya just love fantasy?!) (...from the Deck Of Many Things)
>PC Fighter
>PC Druid
>PC Monk (the replacement for the unconscious cleric)
>PC Halfling
>PC Sorcerer
That's a lot of crap falling from the sky.
The only thing that would be amazing, is an aereal combat as they're falling. I have the family pack of tinkered tactics combat tiers that could work well.
Quite an epic way to die, especially if the PC Druid CMB pushes Zannasha through and they both fall together fighting the whole way down...........................
Oh......................................................................... ............and...............................................what if when they "hit" the ground. A treant steps aside, allowing Zennasha to impail herself upon the earth. And steps to catch the PCs in its treant multitude of blanketing leaves to break their fall.
They all land in the "real" forest that Zannasha tried to protect, and the forest animals, and plant life all walk up to great the PCs?
The PCs go back to town, there could be a small deneumont like..... lumberer's talking about going to explore the woods for lumber....looking to hire the adventuring party. To which they are told by edict (preferably by the new "lord" pc who acccepts the old castle) that no hunting is permitted in the forest nor lumbering!!!
And they all lived happily ever after.
What do you think? +/- a bunch of combat, surprises, and rp of course...
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In actuality, I'm not an expert on altitude. I just work with alot of people who are, and I do alot of research. I spend alot of time hovering above the ocean assisting with searches for missing people. In fact, I just spent the last 40 minutes 3000ft. above southwest Washington so I've got a pretty good idea of what your PCs are going to see when they escape the demiplane.
Speaking of that...
I'm assuming the forest below has its share of magical beasts. Some of them are probably even capable of flight and posess a fair amount of intelligence. An airship might be a little contrived, but what if a group of giant owls, giant eagles, pegasi, avariel or raptorans flew up from the woods to see what was happening and spot the falling PCs? Those creatures are all good-aligned and would probably attempt a rescue mission. Barring aid from below, perhaps some flying creatures from the material plane got caught in the demiplane and are now making their escape via the same route the PCs are taking? The party could wrangle a giant dragonfly or howabout this...that dragon they saw might not have been a green dragon but an emerald dragon that got stuck in the demiplane. Emerald dragons are Lawful Neutral so it might be convinced to give the party a lift if they promise to return the favor or pay it for its services at some point.
I can't think of any "mass feather fall" type items at the moment, but I don't have my books with me. The druid should be able to wildshape into something that flies but nothing big enough to carry more than the halfling. The sorcerer may be able to polymorph or alter self into something that can carry another medium creature depending on her spells. Past that, they're going to need a scroll of sufficient level or an item of flight, feath fall or teleportation. Do they have a bag of holding? Maybe they could squeeze a couple people into it long enough for the druid to fly it down to the ground with the halfling? Spells like Reduce Person are great for such things.
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In fact, I just spent the last 40 minutes 3000ft. above southwest Washington so I've got a pretty good idea of what your PCs are going to see when they escape the demiplane.
I think you're one of the coolest people I've met at PAIZO. Seriously? 40 mins. after flying above the ocean you're posting on my Druid Card thread? That's dedication.
I truly love your ideas. And, I can really envision the stuff you describe! Flying creatures flying past the Pcs through the opening... this is gonna be quite fantastic!
Thanks for all the input.
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And so it ended thusly:
>Tan vinyl battle mat, with the building tiles of the town shops set upon it
>Miniatures representing the party, and a 10' black magnet representing a swirling pool of mud that is "sucking" the plane through it into either the astral plane or simple nothingness
>A sudden approach by a pair of dire black bears who were "sucked" backward down the streets toward the singularity, along with a troop of white-faced orcs
>After each round of combat, the black vortex was increased in size from 10' to 25' to 45' to 85'
>The PCs faught the creatures until nearly being sucked into the exponentially growing vortex (think... holding on for dear life with bodies floating horizontally)
>They break away with some lucky roles and race up the hill toward the castle, then to the edge of the woods to find the path they originally came in
>Descriptions of woodland creatures making a b-line for the woods, descriptions of the silence in the first part of the woods as most animals had already vacated, following their animal sense that something was wrong. Rabbits, deer, griffons...
>Then... a large painted styrofoam archway (er....) I mean the portal back home.... Zennasha stood there with her pet, a greater basilisk. The fauna of the woods were jumping through behind her, and she took the time to attempt to crush the party PC druid and friends.
>The party PC intimated that her "choice" was needed, but was unclear about offering her atonement, and she was too far gone to evil to accept anyhow.
>Huge battle ensues, much druid spell slinging, ...and as the GM I decided to pick out the spell caster to ready actions against (this is something I tend to forget).
>PCs fight their way to the archway, jumping through in intervals, but once through, I provide little sticky notes that tell the player to "please wait", so I don't tip my hand that the portal leads to mid-air, some 5000 feet above the Kingdom.
> I describe the PCs falling.............. free falling........ Zennasha was beaten to a pulp and turned into a horrible whithered tree, as the last 50 yards of her demi-plane crumbled around her. Her hideous face could be seen writhing in pain and seething with hatred as her arms and legs turned into bleeding spiny twisted branches
> The Fighter rolls a natural 20 to lasso a passing griffon. The Monk grabs the sorcerer. The axiomatic, half celestial halfling paladin NPC that appeared earlier when his card was drawn, carries the other NPCs and is slowed down by the sorcerer. The sorcerer does not have mass fly because she is out of 5th level spells, but does manage to cast fly on herself. The druid turns into a giant eagle, and the chaotic halfling who continues to fall, reaches into his scroll case and draws THREE MORE CARDS from the Deck Of Many Things (yes, I'm aware that once someone draws they shouldn't be able to draw more, but this deck functioned in a special way in Zennasha's demi-plan, standard DoMT rules begin to apply now that they are out of that plane.
> The halfling draws KEY, something else... and BALANCE (3 cards).
> Due to the effects of one of the cards, he receives a magic weapon, a medium wondrous item, and changes his alignment to Lawful Good.
> As the GM I instantly deem his LG alignment corresponds to "The Skyfather" of my realm (since he is falling through the air afterall :) What the halfling does not know, perhaps, is that his sudden conversion to LG status is what had divinely given him the "wings to fly". (I am still toying with this idea until Monday...)
And they land, many of them crashing through branches, over-encumbered from their load. But land nonetheless, and find the town gone, the ruined castle still standing, and the people gone. The NPCs still remain: Old Wat, his wife Guenevere and the DoMT palidin halfling. They head back to see the Baroness..... and we ran 35 minutes over time in that evening's session (but we did start late as well, as I was gathering a million different ideas to remain flexible to handle any decision they made.
Outstanding items:
>Where is the dragon (big flying thing)
>Will the inner keep of the castle still be magical?
>Will there still be creatures beneath or within the castle?
>How will the small town near Zennasha's wood benefit from being able to get through the woods and use its resources?
>Will the chaotic fighter in the party accept his land and walk the straight and narrow? - I think not. Instead, I think the Baroness will respect that he does not wish to be legally bound to the constraints of rulership and law, and take back the deed in exchange for a hefty gift that more suits his desires... like a necklass of adaptation etc....
In the end, the story continues, even as this adventure arc ends.
The party PC who drew the VOID will likely lie "in-state" in the Baroess' castle. She will care for him for a few years, and in so doing, fall in love with him (they were already having a trist earlier). This will allow the player to play another PC for a while, and I'll advance the campaign timeline just as soon as I can get the players to sit still for a while...
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Outstanding items:
>Where is the dragon (big flying thing)
>Will the inner keep of the castle still be magical?
>Will there still be creatures beneath or within the castle?
>How will the small town near Zennasha's wood benefit from being able to get through the woods and use its resources?
>Will the chaotic fighter in the party accept his land and walk the straight and narrow? - I think not. Instead, I think the Baroness will respect that he does not wish to be legally bound to the constraints of rulership and law, and take back the deed in exchange for a hefty gift that more suits his desires... like a necklass of adaptation etc....
I think my work here is done, but feel free to contact me through my campaign journal if you need help with any other weirdness.
No - no desire or mandate to do anything with genitals.
If this board allowed signatures, I'd choose this. Funniest thing I've read all week.
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Druid Draws Balance Card: A Deck of Many things is not a Neutral object as it promotes change. That is Chaotic in nature. While a Neutral Druid would be indifferent to change, as Everything is in flux and the Balance is maintained in the superfluid...the only threat to balance is stagnation at the center.
For the Druid I would say Time to become a Warden (fighter/Druid).
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Druid Draws Balance Card: A Deck of Many things is not a Neutral object as it promotes change. That is Chaotic in nature. While a Neutral Druid would be indifferent to change, as Everything is in flux and the Balance is maintained in the superfluid...the only threat to balance is stagnation at the center.
For the Druid I would say Time to become a Warden (fighter/Druid).
Oh yes, agreed. The Deck was portreyed as the most wildly chaotic thing the PCs ever came up against. And, its changed around the social dynamic of the group in a BIG way.
The whole adventure really did highlight Chaos over law, and evil versus good against the backdrop of neutrality. Overall, a mighty fine delve into both the alignment system and the essence of conflict itself, and character development. Everyone is very pleased with the out come.
Also: I started a discussion thread via email with my players and asked them to vote on their favorite "ALTERNATE ENDING". As more time permits, I might copy over some of the options I received and offered...
Also...in yesterday's session:
>The fighter pretty much declined the offer of the castle and land, and the Baroness said, "You've passed the test!" She had heard that the fighter was only out for money and wealth and only paid lip service to what is right within the law. However, she was pleased to hear him decline on the grounds that it wasn't his kind of thing.... showing her he had a good sense of self, and respected the law enough to know he wouldn't enjoy or be able to keep up with all the associated legalities....
Thusly, she rewarded him with a magic item that his character has wanted since day 1. Nice ending there.
The Baroness was also pissed that in just one day, they lost her precious cleric PC. She will care for him personally, and I am advancing the campaign story by 2.5 years.
This is something I haven't done in a very, very long time.
The players all listed for me what they would have their characters be doing over the course of the next 2 years or so.... I took copious notes.... and, I swear, a whole bunch of new adventures popped into my head.
I mean, even if I lied and didn't advance the timeline - this is a great technique for gathering ideas for adventures that mean something to the players....