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I had played (briefly) a hell bred crusader in FR before our group disbanded and I started playing PF.
I really liked the concept of playing a female priest of Tiamat (or, insert evil god / devil here) that was responsible for the turning of souls to Lawful Evil so that she could have a higher place serving Tiamat in the afterlife from all the soul power she provided.
I had her come back as a male crusader since she recanted at the last moment before her death when she was betrayed by Tiamat.
She hated men as the female priest, and they were her #1 targets for corruption. So coming back as a male was a no brainer.
Does a character like this have a basis in Golarion. (I know the gods are different and all, so I am not asking about that). I am rather seeking confirmation that this could happen in Cheliax and if the designers had envisioned the helbred when conceptualizing and fleshing out Cheliax.
It seems that the pact powers from the Book of Tyrants is what is concentrated on more than the cultivating of souls.
Please, I would love some direction here. I definately want this crusader to be Golarion and not FR in flavor. Thanks, CC
I'm not very familiar with the Hellbred, but it sounds like it would work very very well in Cheliax with Asmodeus. Might be some good tips in the Companion book on Cheliax, coming out in August.
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I guess I should put down here what book the HellBred are in. They are in the Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells as a PC race. The race is based off gaining a second chance at redemption by atoning for a lifetime of evil deeds serving an evil god or other entity.
The description of the hellbred reads something like this:
Hellbred go through a scourging. This scourging transforms the character into a hellbred as the powers of good and evil war for the hellbred's soul. They rend and twist the hellbred into his new form. A hellbred is a humanoid with dark red skin, or sometimes green scales. They usually have horns, though their exact form varies. His eyes shine with a sinister red glow, representing the phyical aspects of the hellbred's past life, and reminding him of what he had done in his past life. While a hellbred's outer body is a product of hell, his inner mind and soul are purged and cleaned by the powers of good. He retains shadowy, vague memories of his past. The sight of a one time ally or enemy triggers a sense of unease or pain, but memory details as to why, are like shards of a split second or two from the hellbreds past.
I guess I should put down here what book the HellBred are in. They are in the Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells as a PC race. The race is based off gaining a second chance at redemption by atoning for a lifetime of evil deeds serving an evil god or other entity.
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The sight of a one time ally or enemy triggers a sense of unease or pain, but memory details as to why, are like shards of a split second or two from the hellbreds past.
Hmm.. That sounds rather perfect for a former Chelaxian, possibly redeemed by Sarenrae (Hellbred Paladin of Sarenrae? hmm...). Or perhaps *not* quite redeemed, just made to understand the hurt she inflicted.
Lots of DM-freebie roleplay possibilities in that last bit.
The Hellbred were one of the few things that really tripped a switch with me from Fiendish Codex II. I really liked the idea of someone being "on the line" and getting a chance to do the right thing, while still carrying the outward marks of Hell.
Since there are indeed tieflings in Cheliax, and outwardly it would be hard for many people to tell them apart, I do think that nation might provide a bit of "cover" for a Hellbred that had come back.
In my own campaign, my son's lythari was a sorcerer that had made a pact with a devil to make him more competent with magic, so during a fight with an Ulitharid, he called in his "chip" and blasted it with all his might (maximized spells all the way around). He died, but saved his friends doing so, but due to the contract (and the fact that the cleric wasn't there at the time), he couldn't be brought back.
When he ended up in the afterlife, the devils claimed him, but the elven gods sent an eladrin to collect him, since he died heroically, and the devil's gave him a chance to screw up one more time.
Essentially he got to play an entirely new character with a bunch of roleplaying hooks from the last one, which was a lot of fun for the whole party.
I'll admit that I'm not a fan of Hellbred as originally written in FC:II. It struck me as an awkward, forced imposition of something that only really works in a two sided moral axis with Good and Evil, and makes no sense in a cosmos with a four alignment axis. It's a clumsy fit of a Miltonian dichotomy of G vs E to have devils punishing sinners, and deathbed repenting saving people from damnation in Hell and being given a second chance of sorts by being brought back as Hellbred. Only if it only applied to LE people who converted towards LG in the end, and not applying to anyone else. Hell in the absence of a two alignment system has no business trying to be the place of punishment of the wicked by default, if at all.
I'd massively rewrite the fluff behind the concept before using it in Golarion's cosmos, probably tying it in somehow with a dying soul being conflicted between two parties in Pharasma's Court, one of them being an archdevil or Asmodeus himself, and the other involved party being any other good deity. Perhaps some contractual quirk or poison pill disallows possession by the good claimant, but instead dumps the soul into round 2 as it might be, not redeemed and not damned outright, but given the opportunity to go either way a second time around, but physically marked by the conflicted status of their soul during that period.
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I'll admit that I'm not a fan of Hellbred as originally written in FC:II. It struck me as an awkward, forced imposition of something that only really works in a two sided moral axis with Good and Evil, and makes no sense in a cosmos with a four alignment axis. It's a clumsy fit of a Miltonian dichotomy of G vs E to have devils punishing sinners, and deathbed repenting saving people from damnation in Hell and being given a second chance of sorts by being brought back as Hellbred. Only if it only applied to LE people who converted towards LG in the end, and not applying to anyone else. Hell in the absence of a two alignment system has no business trying to be the place of punishment of the wicked by default, if at all.
I'd massively rewrite the fluff behind the concept before using it in Golarion's cosmos, probably tying it in somehow with a dying soul being conflicted between two parties in Pharasma's Court, one of them being an archdevil or Asmodeus himself, and the other involved party being any other good deity. Perhaps some contractual quirk or poison pill disallows possession by the good claimant, but instead dumps the soul into round 2 as it might be, not redeemed and not damned outright, but given the opportunity to go either way a second time around, but physically marked by the conflicted status of their soul during that period.
Todd, without getting into a huge debate over the cosmos and a 4 tier alignment system, I must admit that I really like the idea of having two opposing (godlike) forces fighting over the soul by their own choice and not by any last minute confession by the mortal in question. The "round two" at life can apply to almost any situation with a PC who is killed, yet not able to be raised by magic.
What I find funny about my first impression of the Helbred compared to yours, is that I took the flavor of the text as being strictly for L-E and no other. The Good vs. Evil undertones that you mention never went through my mind. :D Paladins and Crusaders were the only classes that entered my mind as a choice for a helbred, which, as you know, must be LG.
The more I read about the gods in Golarion, the more I am leaning towards the helbred being a rare sight in Golarion. Since the Cheliax information is not out (in full), I can not make a very good background for this Helbred I want to play using Cheliax as the main part of my background.
Thank you for the thoughts. I appreciate it.
CC
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I'll admit that I'm not a fan of Hellbred as originally written in FC:II. It struck me as an awkward, forced imposition of something that only really works in a two sided moral axis with Good and Evil, and makes no sense in a cosmos with a four alignment axis. It's a clumsy fit of a Miltonian dichotomy of G vs E to have devils punishing sinners, and deathbed repenting saving people from damnation in Hell and being given a second chance of sorts by being brought back as Hellbred. Only if it only applied to LE people who converted towards LG in the end, and not applying to anyone else. Hell in the absence of a two alignment system has no business trying to be the place of punishment of the wicked by default, if at all.
Huh...What?!?!? What's the purpose of having a Miltonian like 9 layers of hell if youare not going to have Devils punishing the wicked. What do you expect them to do. Serve the wicked tea and cookies? (Hmm, Lilith, ...cookies...) The way it was written works with the concepts of WOTC's game system.
I had a hellbred in my Rise of the Runelords game. Same mechanics, different flavor. Her parents, being up-and-coming Cheliaxian nobles, had pledged their daughter to the forces of hell when she was just a baby, and thus she had grown up slightly tainted with fiendish energy--her eyes glinted red when she got upset, and her shadow didn't move exactly in sync with the rest of her. When she came of age and her personal devil came to tempt her with wickedness and power, she fled her family, changed her name and set off on a quest that would do enough good that she would fulfill the escape clause in the contract her parents signed.
Her soul was eventually won back for her in a fiddle contest between her personal devil and the party's hobgoblin bard.
It was awesome.
Her soul was eventually won back for her in a fiddle contest between her personal devil and the party's hobgoblin bard.It was awesome.
If the bard's name was Johnny, I'm going to have to smack you.
~Rosen up your bow and play your fiddle hard . . .
For Hell's broke lose in Sandpoint and the Devil deals the cards . . .
Her soul was eventually won back for her in a fiddle contest between her personal devil and the party's hobgoblin bard.It was awesome.
If the bard's name was Johnny, I'm going to have to smack you.
~Rosen up your bow and play your fiddle hard . . .
For Hell's broke lose in Sandpoint and the Devil deals the cards . . .
1) His name was Neiman (because, since his name was written down, he was literally "no man").
2) It was the player's idea, not mine.