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Hi all thought I'd post a query here. Getting a new gaming group together and still on the fence as to whether to run 4e or 3.5/PF. I picked up the 4e core books when they came out last year but still have not run them. Despite my reservations I'm still curious to give it a try. So am toying with trying 4e out bearing in mind that all the players except one are entirely new to rpg can anyone recommend a good 1st level adventure?
And by good I mean not just a hack and slash dungeon crawl (which is what I've heard said of Keep on the Shadowfell). I read over Rescue at Rivenroar and with some work it might be all right but I wasn't too impressed either. Does anyone knows of a decent wilderness or urban adventure for starting levels?
Honestly, I'd strongly suggest Rise of the Runelords 1: Burnt Offerings. Scott Betts has an excellent Rise of the Runelords 4E conversion blog, and the adventure (and entire path) is conveniently set in a very PoL region (Varisia).
Normally I wouldn't recommend a conversion, especially for a new group, but both the adventure path and the blog are just that good. Together they'd be easier to to run (and much more fun) than some of the low-level 4E material that has come out of WotC.
I wholeheartedly concur with bugleyman.
I'm running my first 4E game now and I'm using Scott's conversion material. In addition to the great explanations Scott provides for how he's handled the conversion, there's a lot of support and community created material for RotRL on these boards.
Half of my group had never played before, and the other half hadn't played since the 2E days but they don't seem to have had any issues with picking up the 4E rules. But whether you go with 4E or 3.5/PF, the amount of help you can find here for running this AP is awesome.
We ran through Keep on the Shadowfell, and my players and I had a good time. I had heard the same thing about the dungeon-crawlyness, so I put some extra work into the npc's and the pc's backstories. Yeah, most of the encounters were straightforward fights, but the interactions between the players and the townsfolk helped out (especially with building up one of the interlude encounters). One of my players said he thinks 4e actually cleans up combat enough that he can focus more on roleplaying.
Anyways, WotC is giving away KotS as a free download, so you can judge for yourself.
Free PDF!
In all honesty I consider my conversions appropriate for DMs who have some experience running games of D&D, as it does not provide quite the same level of support as a WotC published adventure might. A first-time DM might be better off with an introductory adventure. But Paizo writes great stories, and those stories can make for great adventuring material. If you feel confident, the Pathfinder APs are worth looking into no matter the system you play in.
bugleyman and Miphon, the two of you are wonderfully kind. Thanks for the plug.
In all honesty I consider my conversions appropriate for DMs who have some experience running games of D&D, as it does not provide quite the same level of support as a WotC published adventure might. A first-time DM might be better off with an introductory adventure...
Normally I'd agree, but so far I haven't found WotC's low-level adventures to be very supportive to the new DM. Your conversion docs are just as good (and informative).
On a related note, the OP would be well served by Dungeon Master 4th edition for Dummies. It really goes into the why of how things are done much better than any of the "actual" D&D products.
bugleyman and Miphon, the two of you are wonderfully kind. Thanks for the plug.
Kindness has nothing to do with it; it is great work.
I do have a minor suggestion after reading the compiled Burnt Offerings conversion document (ver .5), though; In section B13 (Cathedral of Wrath) you have the runewell compel a player to attack the nearest target "using the most powerful abilities available to it." I suggest simply imposing the dominated condition; forcing players to use encounters or dailies is unnecessarily punitive and without precedent (as far as I know).
I do have a minor suggestion after reading the compiled Burnt Offerings conversion document (ver .5), though; In section B13 (Cathedral of Wrath) you have the runewell compel a player to attack the nearest target "using the most powerful abilities available to it." I suggest simply imposing the dominated condition; forcing players to use encounters or dailies is unnecessarily punitive and without precedent (as far as I know).
Ah, you're absolutely correct. I have no idea how that managed to stay in there for so long. That's the thing about revisiting work from when I was just starting the process - you come across mistakes that I'd shake my head at if I saw in someone else's work. Thanks for pointing it out to me!
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Thanks for the link to the Runelord conversion. I had thought about converting 3.5 stuff to 4e but didn't really want to put the time in for what might be a one off.
So yeah just to clarify, I've been DMing for well I guess 15 years so I myself am not inexperienced just the players (save one who played in my previous two campaigns). Haven't ran/played 4e as my last group wasn't too keen on it and we were in the midst of a campaign.
Also does anyone have any feedback on the Goodman games. I think they had one 4e that was an urban wererat adventure?
Thanks for the responses all!
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We ran through Keep on the Shadowfell, and my players and I had a good time. I had heard the same thing about the dungeon-crawlyness, so I put some extra work into the npc's and the pc's backstories. Yeah, most of the encounters were straightforward fights, but the interactions between the players and the townsfolk helped out (especially with building up one of the interlude encounters). One of my players said he thinks 4e actually cleans up combat enough that he can focus more on roleplaying.
Anyways, WotC is giving away KotS as a free download, so you can judge for yourself.
Free PDF!
Thanks I didn't know that they were giving it away now
Thanks I didn't know that they were giving it away now
While it isn't quite on the level of being free, Goodman's 4e $2.00 module, Mists of Madness is for 1st level characters. And if it's neophyte urban intrigues ye seek, Goodman's 4e Sellswords of Punjar takes place in a city (I think it might be the very first 4e module Goodman put out).
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If you're just learning the mechanics and how to play 4e, go with KotS. The story may be thin, but it's a good primer for combat and whatnot If you already know how to play, or are experienced enough to learn on the fly, go with Scott's stuff. All of the Paizo story goodness, excellent port to 4e mechanics by Scott. Truly an outstanding effort.
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I would agree about KotS, the KotS download is an improved version of the printed one and it is a great place to start if you and your group hasn't got much experience with the 4e mechanics. It is a little bit "go here, now go here, fight this, fight that", but again great for learning the mechanics of 4e. Then I also agree that Scott's conversions of AP's are definitively where you should head next. But get the mechanics under your belt first then tackle Scott's AP conversion - I think it'll be more fun in the long run.
S.
I would agree about KotS, the KotS download is an improved version of the printed one and it is a great place to start if you and your group hasn't got much experience with the 4e mechanics. It is a little bit "go here, now go here, fight this, fight that", but again great for learning the mechanics of 4e. Then I also agree that Scott's conversions of AP's are definitively where you should head next. But get the mechanics under your belt first then tackle Scott's AP conversion - I think it'll be more fun in the long run.
S.
I agree here. If your goal is to become proficient at DMing, you want to focus on one thing at a time. The pre-packaged adventure in KotS allows you to focus exclusively on developing your at-the-table DM chops - all the prep work is finished for you. Once you've gotten through that and feel comfortable at the table, branch out to avenues that allow you more leeway to tailor the adventure itself to your game. Although the Rise of the Runelords conversion really has everything you ought to need to run it with the original adventure, the possibility for the game to go "off the rails" and require your input as a DM to continue is much higher. I think it would be an excellent second project for a new 4th Edition DM.