Anyway Cheapy, it's an archetype i can work with either as-is or maybe i by modifying it for my home games (i tried that with the cloistered cleric but i couldn't get a result i liked).
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Take a 1 level dip into monk to get wis to AC, focus on buffing your Wis and Dex as top priority, then go in and play as a Bad Touch cleric with more fun spells xD.
An armored bad touch cleric is still going to outpace the AC of a monk\cleric counterpart without taking a hit to his spellcasting and class features. Breastplate with shield with magic vestment on both.
Idk...
It is like comparing the dex Kensai to the heavy armored strength magus. In the end, the dex Kensai actually has a higher AC than the magus because you become more SAD, allowing you to pump up your dex and int (or in this case Wis) to some really rediculous levels...
Definitely - I routinely can achieve the highest AC in the group, even with a Kensai Magus around.
I'm just trying to figure out how the divine bond ability would work with my Consecrated Trident.
the hit to channel at such a low level really feels like a kick in the teeth
Very true... but at that point you may as well just ignore Channel Energy...
Why do I feel like the Blessing of the Faithful ability is an AC increasing ability... like adding Wis to AC or 1/2 level or something like that... It just... FEELS like that kind of ability...
Given the fluff text it probably was ("Eschewing physical armor for protection via the strength of his faith,..."). It probably snagged something from Warpriest ('Blessing'...).
My players will probably love this book (new toys) and I'll have to see how it plays but I can't say I'm especially thrilled with the hybrid class concept and the end results of most archetypes (far too many are either traps, would be better served as a new PRC, or would work better as a feat modification). To be honest I'm a bit annoyed when I do see something like the Ecclesitheurge that does have a new focused role in concept but is knee-capped in execution.
If it was just a few cases it wouldn't bother me, but it's systemic with quality in design decisions\editing varying significantly and too often inelegantly. I ran across a piece written by Alex Augunas recently who writes for Radiance House and other 3PPs at Everyman Gaming that I think addresses the multiclass\hybrid class issue fairly well.
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I don't mind the Archtype. Not for me, but I know there's a vocal minority that's been asking for the White Mage Cleric for a while. My beef is that this was the one and only Cleric Archtype in the book. What the hell Paizo. Cleric spells kind of suck, (kind if is being kind), and we get the this in a book that was supposed to give us options to tweek the base classes to get some of the toys of the Hybrid class they where part of.
I do have to agree, it's a bit light, (but then 90% of the Cleric Archtypes are due to the Cleric's poor design and so many dead levels), even if it's not one I'm personally all that interested in, but it should be playable.
Archivist style Cleric archetype. (INT to casting, has a prayerbook, can learn any divine spell, replace channeling with group buff stuff) Make it happen Paizo!
^^^ Now THAT is something I would like to see. The Archivist was easily one of my favorite classes in 3.5 (Along with Warlock, Binder, Incarnate, and Shadowcaster)
A decent archetype would have been easy to do.... the 3PP - Priest, Theosophist and Ascetic have all shown the way with a minimum of fuss... the Theosophist in particular being a good design.
Paizo have no excuses its a half assed attempt that is plain to see. Baring in mind these arent really new classes as such but quick tweaks of the cleric base class.
I hear moaning about "things taking up space in the book".... but the ridiculously fluffy bonded item and domain mastery could have very easily been replaced with...."the Ecclesitheurge receives 3 domains and can prepare the spells from one of those domains in non-domain slots, also it receives 4 skill points per level"...... off the cuff and lacking in imagination definitely, but at the very least more balanced with the removal of weapons and armour.... AND taking up a whole 2.5 sentences!
I know Paizo cant stand clerics (COUGH.. SPLUTTER...NO CAPSTONE!!)... as further indicated by only providing 1 measly archetype but you would think even they could spare 2.5 sentences!
As I said I really wish they hadnt done this archetype at all.... all its done is hindered massively any proper development in the class.
The editing in general was extremely poor in general so I feel bad for whatever content was cut to make room.
Ive found about 30 lines already of either redundant or unneeded text.
Ive found about 30 lines already of either redundant or unneeded text.A two-page spread or "one topic per page" layout occasionally requires padding to avoid white space. Removing the padding from one page (or spread) does not allow you to add additional words to any other page (or spread).
Ah shenanigans.
I'm pretty sure room could have been made as it's hard to believe that this product is quality from all the typos, poor wording, and other errors made within the product.
Ive found about 30 lines already of either redundant or unneeded text.A two-page spread or "one topic per page" layout occasionally requires padding to avoid white space. Removing the padding from one page (or spread) does not allow you to add additional words to any other page (or spread).
Dumping the ugly ass dwarf to add a few more lines of text (or simplfying the divine bond text. Or adding a second cleric archetype so it's two pages worth of content) would have been trivial though.
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Well, since it seems we seem to be at the point of armchair editing, time to hide the thread. Ciao!
Sorry that it was a complete waste of space.
Well I don't believe it was your fault, I imagine you had quite the vision in mind for the Ecclesitheurge.
Though calling it "armchair editing" is a bit of a misnomer. The ACG simply isn't a polished product. It was rushed and suffered heavily for it.
If instead of going monk, I took a level of Sacred Fist, would that make much of a difference aside from not forcing me to be lawful?
Bout to start playing an AP with a level 2 Ecclesithuerge/Monk, upon further review it appears I am not proficient with my deity's favored weapon. Am I interpreting that correctly?
I actually really like the Ecclesitheurge! Going to take one with Empyreal Sorcerer into Mystic Theurge. Can't have all the spells unless I get all the domain spells from a god and this let's me have it. Honestly, you guys seem to be way too nitpicky. This archetype gives you crazy versatility.
Well, since it seems we seem to be at the point of armchair editing, time to hide the thread. Ciao!
Sorry that it was a complete waste of space.
Well I don't believe it was your fault, I imagine you had quite the vision in mind for the Ecclesitheurge.
Though calling it "armchair editing" is a bit of a misnomer. The ACG simply isn't a polished product. It was rushed and suffered heavily for it.
Amen to that.
Amen to that.Well, since it seems we seem to be at the point of armchair editing, time to hide the thread. Ciao!
Sorry that it was a complete waste of space.
Well I don't believe it was your fault, I imagine you had quite the vision in mind for the Ecclesitheurge.
Though calling it "armchair editing" is a bit of a misnomer. The ACG simply isn't a polished product. It was rushed and suffered heavily for it.
*nod*