Arcane Power-Is It Worth Buying?

[David Fryer]

Okay, so Arcane Power is out today. Has anyone gotten it yet and is it worth buying?

[Matthew Koelbl]

I just picked it up a couple hours ago. Thus far, I only really had the chance to hunt through it for stuff specific to my arcane characters (a Swordmage and a Con-based Warlock.)

Both of those characters, certainly, will be well-pleased with it - the Swordmage (with Aegis of Shielding) can now almost entirely focus on using At-Wills on his turn, with the majority of his Daily and Encounter powers being Interrupts to slide his allies to safely, turn enemies attacks upon themselves, or simply punish them in some form or another.

The Warlock, meanwhile, now finally has some hard choices to make - the book opens up quite a few Close powers, allowing him to start really taking advantage of wading into the fray. (Which, as a Warforged in Heavy Armor with a Fullblade, he is remarkably good at, despite being pure Warlock.)

So, it definitely seems to present a lot of good options for existing characters. And it seems to have some great new stuff, too - while I wasn't too impressed with the new Swordmage Aegis (Ensarement, which focuses on keeping enemies near the Swordmage), the new Warlock Pact (Vestiges) is all sorts of awesome. Literally so, even - because every single Daily power offers a different vestige you can potentially build around, you could design dozens of different styles of play within the one Pact. That is very, very cool.

I also looked through the feats - very familiar stuff, if you have seen Martial Power. Many are focused at expanding options in similar ways (letting you deal Warlock's Curse a second time when you use an Action Point, for example), and there are quite a few good racial feats, including ones that make viable less standard combinations.

Swordmage Paragon Paths weren't bad - mechanically strong, but the flavor of many of them tended to blend together. Warlock Paragon Paths, on the other hand, had some very flavorful choices.

Also like with Martial Power, the book is filled with little blurbs every few pages about small bits of flavor - discussing the differences among different races as swordmages, swordmages and religion, weapons, etc. Nothing major, but it does add a nice bit of background to poke through, and can provide some inspiration for those looking for some.

And finally, I really, really, really like the new rules for Familiars. Mechanically they are useful but not really abuseable, they are simple to use and low-maintenance (no fear about a stray fireball costing you hundreds of xp), and filled with tons of RP potential. There is a Dragon article that adds even more, with their own fantastic quirks, but even just the ones in this book can add a ton of fun to the game.

So... I was certainly glad with it, as a purchase. It is very much a player resource, and the content is just for arcane classes (or those multiclassed into them). If your characters don't have any use for the arcane, you won't need the book. If you do... it is probably a pretty valuable resource.

[David Fryer]

My swordmage player will be happy. I wonder if you could take a look at the wizards for me. That is what I play.

[Jezred]

I went to my ULGS (Unfriendly Local Game Store), who said they would have it in tomorrow. I went next to my FRFS (Friendly Regional Franchise Store), who have all of today's releases in stock. I flipped through Arcane Power, especially the sorcerer secion as I am playing one. From my quick glance: if you liked Martial Power, you will probably like Arcane Power (unless you like Martial characters and dislike Arcane characters... then you may want to pass on this one).

So far I feel like the "Powers" books provide some of the best crunch for the dollar. Even as the group's DM, I like them more than the non-player geared stuff so far.

[Galnörag]

Jezred wrote:

From my quick glance: if you liked Martial Power, you will probably like Arcane Power.

So far I feel like the "Powers" books provide some of the best crunch for the dollar.

Agree, and Agree.

I really liked the Storm Sorcerer build but not the other one, it was too weird and changing.

I did have a question and I haven't gone back to Martial Powers to verify, but did Martial Powers have the enormous number of side bars that were basically talking about racial/class combos. They were rich and flavourful, especially the ones about dwarves which almost all start along the theme "while there are few dwarven x's, those that do exists are ..."

Anyways high crunch per $ and really emphasize how well the 4e modular and role based structure is, the key is that the powers need to remain balanced, and until it plays out, it will be hard to tell if there is power creep in these books.

[Matthew Koelbl]

Galnörag wrote:

I did have a question and I haven't gone back to Martial Powers to verify, but did Martial Powers have the enormous number of side bars that were basically talking about racial/class combos. They were rich and flavourful, especially the ones about dwarves which almost all start along the theme "while there are few dwarven x's, those that do exists are ..."

They did have the same sidebars - though from my glance through Arcane Power, it looked like they had a bit more in this book. Possibly since they also had PHB2 races to discuss.

[Matthew Koelbl]

David Fryer wrote:

My swordmage player will be happy. I wonder if you could take a look at the wizards for me. That is what I play.

I unfortunately don't have the book on hand to comment at the moment, but I do recall a good number of summoning power and a good number of illusion powers (and being quite impressed with the latter.)

They also have a new magic implement (Tomes) with two implement specialties for it. One of them enhances summoning, but the other is very interesting - the Tome of Readiness feature, which lets you swap a known encounter power for another during a fight. The Tomes themselves look to often do the same with daily powers (where you can swap one you have memorized for a power stored in the Tome.)

All of this allows you to build a very versatile wizard who can quickly grab the right tool for the job at a moment's notice.

[P.H. Dungeon]

I picked it up today. I don't know if anyone else had this problem, but when I went through mine (didn't notice until I got home). I found that there were about 30 pages (the entire wizard section and a bit more) where there was a printing problem and the color registration is offset (like a 3-D book with no 3-D glasses). I'm thinking I might return it, but I don't know if the whole print run has this problem of if I just got a bad copy.

[Blazej]

P.H. Dungeon wrote:

I picked it up today. I don't know if anyone else had this problem, but when I went through mine (didn't notice until I got home). I found that there were about 30 pages (the entire wizard section and a bit more) where there was a printing problem and the color registration is offset (like a 3-D book with no 3-D glasses). I'm thinking I might return it, but I don't know if the whole print run has this problem of if I just got a bad copy.

I would imagine Matthew Koelbl would have mentioned that if were in his copy, and that WotC would have had the the books reprinted if the entire set was bad like that. I have to believe that it was just a bad copy.

[David Fryer]

P.H. Dungeon wrote:

I picked it up today. I don't know if anyone else had this problem, but when I went through mine (didn't notice until I got home). I found that there were about 30 pages (the entire wizard section and a bit more) where there was a printing problem and the color registration is offset (like a 3-D book with no 3-D glasses). I'm thinking I might return it, but I don't know if the whole print run has this problem of if I just got a bad copy.

Sometimes things just happen like that. I remember my wife bought me a copy of the Star Wars Revised Rule Book several years back and it had to be returned because the entire races section was missing.

[Matthew Koelbl]

Blazej wrote:

P.H. Dungeon wrote:

I picked it up today. I don't know if anyone else had this problem, but when I went through mine (didn't notice until I got home). I found that there were about 30 pages (the entire wizard section and a bit more) where there was a printing problem and the color registration is offset (like a 3-D book with no 3-D glasses). I'm thinking I might return it, but I don't know if the whole print run has this problem of if I just got a bad copy.

I would imagine Matthew Koelbl would have mentioned that if were in his copy, and that WotC would have had the the books reprinted if the entire set was bad like that. I have to believe that it was just a bad copy.

Yeah, just looked through mine to confirm, and saw nothing along these lines. It sounds like a bad copy - which means you can probably get a return for a proper one.

[Matthew Koelbl]

Also, follow up from before: Wizard stuff.

Wizards get three new Arcane Implement Mastery options. A second one for Orbs that helps with illusion powers (if it doesn't hit one target, it might land on another...), plus the two Tomes I mentioned before (one to help with summoning, and one for just generic versatility.)

The new wizard powers have a good number of illusions, including many that don't have a damage effect, but simply confound the opponent in a variety of ways. My personal favorite is Phantom Reality (Level 25 Daily) - if you hit with this, until the enemy saves, you essentially rewrite what the opponent sees, weaving an elaborate and perfect illusion all around him. The game terms of this, fortunately, are pretty simple - you basically get to freely change the targets of his effects and choose where his area attacks hit (though he can't hit himself), and whenever he moves, you get to slide him where you want him after he moves. (If you miss, you get to do most of this for one round.) Cool, flavorful, and easy to handle.

There are also a good number of both Conjurations and Summonings. Summonings are daily only, and summon an allied creature, who typically has a special attack you can make them make as a standard action, and the ability to take opportunity attacks. Many get lots of chances to use those OAs, either due to threatening reach, or because many things trigger them. (Many can take them whenever enemies in their reach attack you or your other allies.) The summons look to serve as mini-defenders and field support, rather than the raw damage some were hoping for - though with some of the later ones, they do a lot of respectable things!

Damage can instead be found with Conjurations, many of which show up, attack, and can be used to attack each round with a minor action. Like Flaming Sphere and Mordenkainen's Sword and similar ones in the PHB, they tend to be top of the line for raw damage. But, unlike summons, don't help fill up the field, flank, and so forth. They seem to have found a good role for each of them, which is nice. There are also many encounter summons that hit an opponent and leave behind an ally for a round, who punishes opponents for specific things (moving too far, not moving far enough, attacking people, not attacking other people, etc.)

In addition to the above, there are also numerous encounter powers that have extra effects depending on your Implement Mastery, thus adding a much more tangible difference to being a Staff wizard or Wand wizard or Orb wizard, and so forth. I was very happy to see this. There are some feats expanding on each as well, further helping that distinction.

Wizard Paragon Paths:
Arcane Wayfarer - Teleports himself and enemies about the field. Eventually gets the ability to teleport 10' as a move action, all day long!

Bonded Summoner - Boosts summoning, including getting a big summon that protects both him and his other summons.

Hermetic Saboteur - I really like this guy, who focuses on manipulating the battlefield, getting combat advantage against his foes, and setting magical traps. His encounter power sets up three magic landmines on the field, his utility power lets him swap targets with traps get triggered (including swapping allies out and enemies in), and his daily gives him a zone of protection that smacks down anyone foolish enough to attack him.

Rimetongue Caller - Ice mage, who gets to make all his summons also icy monsters, which are actually pretty darn effective.

Unseen Mage - Really, really good with invisibility. As in, his invisibility spells have a good chance of staying up an extra round when they would normally end. Also good at helping allies disappear, and gains mini-sneak attack with his arcane powers.

Weaver of Chance - Complicated but cool. Reminiscent of 3.5 Fatespinner - gets an 'Entropy Pool' each encounter and can pull off points for bonuses to attacks. Gains entropy points from critting and from path powers, but loses them just as easily, so will require some careful play. And level 20 power gives him a random spell from a list of 6 of the big PHB Wizard Dailies from levels 15-25... though he can burn some entropy points to choose which he wants.

I did like that they all stood out as pretty distinct paths, including the ones in the PHB. Some of the ones in Martial Power tended to run into redundancy issues - there are four or five dual-wielding ranger paragon paths that all feel conceptually the same, and same for archery paths as well.

Hope this gives you a good idea of what to find, and whether it would be of any interest to you!

[Jeremy Mac Donald]

Damnit! Where's my book full of clericy goodness. I feel so left out.

[PsychoticWarrior]

Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:

Damnit! Where's my book full of clericy goodness. I feel so left out.

No kidding, eh? I really felt Arcane & Divine power should have been the first class books out. And they should have both been ready by XMas 08!

[TGZ101]

P.H. Dungeon wrote:

I picked it up today. I don't know if anyone else had this problem, but when I went through mine (didn't notice until I got home). I found that there were about 30 pages (the entire wizard section and a bit more) where there was a printing problem and the color registration is offset (like a 3-D book with no 3-D glasses). I'm thinking I might return it, but I don't know if the whole print run has this problem of if I just got a bad copy.

My copy of Martial Power was a little bit like this on some pages. It is still legible but kind of annoying. It also affected several of the pictures as well, which was disappointing. I was hoping mine was just an isolated incident. Wizards should reconsider their printer. Shouldn't they have caught this by now?

[Jezred]

Anyway, to follow up on my earlier post, I did get a hold of my own copy from my ULGS. My initial impressions are confirmed. I really like 95% of the additional material. The unorthodox bard build/powers seems like a cross between a bard and an arcane archer. I am not sure I am groovy with it, but a ranged leader seems like a nifty idea. The new familiar rules are very interesting, but again I am not sure I am on board with them.

Again, really pleased with the "Power" books. I am looking forward to Divine Power, since I have been playing divine characters since the 80s.

[bugleyman]

I have Arcane Power (already pre-ordered at the FLGS prior to "PDFGate.") Even given the very limited time I've spent reading it, I can say that if you are running an arcane character in 4E, you want this book. Familiars in particular really benefit from the "Gameplay over simulation" mantra, with a "passive mode" in which they simply can't be targeted. So much less of a headache, and should help address the classic "disappearing familiar" problem.

[Scott Betts]

bugleyman wrote:

I have Arcane Power (already pre-ordered at the FLGS prior to "PDFGate.") Even given the very limited time I've spent reading it, I can say that if you are running an arcane character in 4E, you want this book. Familiars in particular really benefit from the "Gameplay over simulation" mantra, with a "passive mode" in which they simply can't be targeted. So much less of a headache, and should help address the classic "disappearing familiar" problem.

They're also now clarified clearly as spirits rather than living creatures like mortals, which is more in line to their mythological roots. It also helps explain how they can "die" and come back after a short while. The familiar rules are totally sweet.

The Skinsaw Murders notes that lyrakien can be taken as Improved Familiars, and consequently I've created a 4th Edition paragon tier familiar version of the lyrakien.

[Horus]

This is a great book, for the first time since 2nd edition I want to pay a summoner. Combined with a few conjuring rituals for greater utility/duration (building elementals I'm looking at you) I'll be one happy chappy.

[nrtrandahl]

Arcane Power is pretty much the heart of my Arcane-based setting that's in the works. I love it! My favorite 4E book so far.

[Duncan & Dragons]

Alright, I did not see anyone say it.. why buy it when you can get it for free? I have the DDI and we get downloads fast. I have not bought a hardcopy book yet, even the core books. I feel the subscription is worth the ability to make characters with pre-populated power cards. So I 'feel' that all books are essentially free. I just cannot take them to the park with me ...

Maybe I should word it this way, DDI lets you test ride for free.

[TigerDave]

Duncan & Dragons wrote:

Alright, I did not see anyone say it.. why buy it when you can get it for free? I have the DDI and we get downloads fast. I have not bought a hardcopy book yet, even the core books. I feel the subscription is worth the ability to make characters with pre-populated power cards. So I 'feel' that all books are essentially free. I just cannot take them to the park with me ...

Maybe I should word it this way, DDI lets you test ride for free.

While this is true to a point, I personally feel you miss a lot of quality writing in going this route. I *want* the fluff with my crunch. I *want* to read the books. I do *most* of my work "at the park" so the subscription isn't as big a value to me (although I also have a subscription.)

All that being said, I bought 2 Arcane Powers for the gaming table. A very good book indeed, and currently my #2 fave so far. (PHB2 took #1.)

[mouthymerc]

Duncan & Dragons wrote:

Alright, I did not see anyone say it.. why buy it when you can get it for free? I have the DDI and we get downloads fast. I have not bought a hardcopy book yet, even the core books. I feel the subscription is worth the ability to make characters with pre-populated power cards. So I 'feel' that all books are essentially free. I just cannot take them to the park with me ...

Maybe I should word it this way, DDI lets you test ride for free.

Because no matter how far this hobby comes electronically, it is still about the books for me. If I can not hold it in my hands, flipping through he pages, reading this or that little tidbit whenever I want, then it isn't useful to me. The day that the hobby becomes more predominantly electronic will, in all likelihood, be the day I stop keeping up with anything current about it and stick with my older stuff.

[nrtrandahl]

mouthymerc wrote:

Duncan & Dragons wrote:

Alright, I did not see anyone say it.. why buy it when you can get it for free? I have the DDI and we get downloads fast. I have not bought a hardcopy book yet, even the core books. I feel the subscription is worth the ability to make characters with pre-populated power cards. So I 'feel' that all books are essentially free. I just cannot take them to the park with me ...

Maybe I should word it this way, DDI lets you test ride for free.

Because no matter how far this hobby comes electronically, it is still about the books for me. If I can not hold it in my hands, flipping through he pages, reading this or that little tidbit whenever I want, then it isn't useful to me. The day that the hobby becomes more predominantly electronic will, in all likelihood, be the day I stop keeping up with anything current about it and stick with my older stuff.

Exactly! I have to have my books! Im deployed in the Middle East right now and I still have my 4E library in my wall locker.

[drjones]

Now that I have had it for a while, I really like this book. it is true that you can get most of the player 'bang' from it with a DDI subscription but looking over possibilities and options as broad as these can be inspirational beyond just looking up which power to take next.

[Paul Worthen]

TigerDave wrote:

Maybe I should word it this way, DDI lets you test ride for free ($15/month).

Fixed that for ya.

[Matthew Koelbl]

Paul Worthen wrote:

TigerDave wrote:

Maybe I should word it this way, DDI lets you test ride for free ($15/month).

Fixed that for ya.

For the sake of keeping these boards accurate, DDI is $5 a month if you are on a year-round payment plan, or $8 a month if you are paying month to month. $15/month is entirely inaccurate.

And while I'm already responding... I think the point of his statement was that paying for the product of DDI allows you to test drive other products for free. Which was entirely accurate as he wrote it.

[Arcmagik]

And *cough*6.66*cough* a month if you pay for three months. (19.99 divide by 3. I swear came out to 6.66 with repeating threes!!!)

[Blazej]

Matthew Koelbl wrote:

For the sake of keeping these boards accurate, DDI is $5 a month if you are on a year-round payment plan, or $8 a month if you are paying month to month. $15/month is entirely inaccurate.

I think that number was a recollection of the original price for the month to month DDI. It is still wrong, but I just wanted to note that that number was not made up for whatever it is worth.

Matthew Koelbl wrote:

And while I'm already responding... I think the point of his statement was that paying for the product of DDI allows you to test drive other products for free. Which was entirely accurate as he wrote it.

I understood the point of his statement, but do think that is incorrect to describe it as free. I would similarly say it would be incorrect to say that a particular theme park lets you ride a particular attraction for free when letting you ride the the attractions was a reason you gave the park your money.

I just didn't say anything because I didn't think that people unaware of DDI would be common in the thread, and if anyone was mistaken that could be dealt with later.

[TigerDave]

Paul Worthen wrote:

Duncan & Dragons wrote:

Maybe I should word it this way, DDI lets you test ride for free ($15/month).

Fixed that for ya.

And I fixed it for you as well.

[Matthew Koelbl]

Blazej wrote:

I understood the point of his statement, but do think that is incorrect to describe it as free. I would similarly say it would be incorrect to say that a particular theme park lets you ride a particular attraction for free when letting you ride the the attractions was a reason you gave the park your money.

Hmm, I'd say a more accurate comparison might be to say that you have a cable service, and realize that a movie you haven't seen is coming out on dvd - you can go and catch the movie when it is shown on tv in order to decide whether or not to get the dvd. It isn't free - you are paying for the cable service - but it does let you test that content (the movie) free of a direct purchase of it. But we probably need to agree to disagree on this point, as I can certainly see what you are saying, but don't myself think it was a misleading way to phrase it.

I'm just amused I chose to correct the pricing information the same day they released news about a price increase. >_>

[Blazej]

Matthew Koelbl wrote:

Hmm, I'd say a more accurate comparison might be to say that you have a cable service, and realize that a movie you haven't seen is coming out on dvd - you can go and catch the movie when it is shown on tv in order to decide whether or not to get the dvd. It isn't free - you are paying for the cable service - but it does let you test that content (the movie) free of a direct purchase of it. But we probably need to agree to disagree on this point, as I can certainly see what you are saying, but don't myself think it was a misleading way to phrase it.

Yeah, I think that it depends on whether or not you were paying for the service because of the extra feature, or if you bought into it for other reasons and just were viewing the extra feature as a free perk.

I certainly don't care to make a big deal about this. I especially don't want to continue to fuel the arguments in my head Is accessing the Paizo forum free? I don't pay them directly, but I have to have a computer-like device and Internet connection... over such a minor detail as I can already see what you are saying as well.

Matthew Koelbl wrote:

I'm just amused I chose to correct the pricing information the same day they released news about a price increase. >_>

Me too. :)