I've just been thinking about adding the Armored Mage (light) rule to the base Wizard class at around level 6-8. I was just wondering if there is anyone who has tried that or has an opinion about it.
I have not tried it. Personally it doesn't feel right to me when i think about what there role is plus there are plenty of PrCs that would allow it. It would also depend if you are using any of the splat books that would allow the PC by 12th level to be in full plate mail which they could magically enchant themselves if needed.
I'm the kind of guy who likes to preserve the classic archetypes, so the idea of giving wizards an armored mage ability at any point in their level progression really rubs me the wrong way. From a play balance perspective, I'm not sure what I'd make of it. Wizards can currently buff their ACs pretty high if they so choose, but that comes at the cost of spell slots and/or gold for magic items. Giving a wizard armor would still require the expenditure of that gold, but would also give them both another venue to pursue to get high armor classes. Thus, they could achieve the same AC as they have now without the expenditure of spells, or achieve an even higher AC if they continue using those spells slots. Either way constitutes a power boost. Whether those power boosts mean anything in the long run from a balance perspective is another matter entirely.
I play a lot of arcane casters, and I don't think it's necessary for three reasons:
1) Arcane casters with mage armor can, by 6th-8th level, give themselves light armor that lasts for most of an adventuring day with one 1st level spell. This doesn't include any other buffs that Arcanes usually use, such as Cat's Grace, Shield, etc.
2) It's tradition. Not a great tradition, arguably, but it is tradition.
3) There are some classes who have it already. I appreciate that your campaign may not have Warmages and Duskblades running 'bout, but you could dip into those rules for a good variant caster.
If you do want to run ith it, you may consider making it an option - the player forgoes having a more powerful familiar or even a few spell slots for the chance to wear heavily enchanted mithral chain. Complete Mage and Complete Champion have alternate class features you could look at to get an idea of how to balance it in.
A feat could also work. In several campaigns I play in DMs allow Arcane Casters to take the feat from Complete Arcane that, as written, allows a caster to improve their armor category without penalty - these DMs make it so a caster can wear light armor. It works rather well.
The pathfinder beta has a couple of feats in it that reduces the arcane spell failure precentage, which is a better approach in my opinion. The mage will still need light and medium armor proficiency, and the use of the "arcane armor training" and "arcane armor mastery" feats (the ones in pathfinder beta) use a swift action, which I feel is a fair trade for reducing the chance of a spell failing.
Mages have plenty of buff spells in the status quo, Mac. Mage armor + shield and an average dex along will get that low level wizards AC up to 20 or so. Start throwing in magical toys, couple with the buff spells that continue to improve (if only marginally so), and, well... light armor just doesn't stack with most wizard buff spells, so the wizard shouldn't need it.
And it the wizard is getting mangled, the Player has already screwed up anyway, IMO.
Or, OTOH, he's a wizard and deserves to die. :)-
I would suggest replacing his bonus feats at 1st, 5th, and 10th level with the ability to cast in light armor, medium armor, and heavy armor. Maybe replace the 15th and 20th level feats with the ability to cast using a Light Shield and Heavy Shield?
OR
1. Light Armor Proficiency
5. Ability to cast in Light Armor without penalty
10. Medium and Heavy Armor Proficieny
15. Ability to cast in Medium Armor without penalty
20. Ability to cast in Heavy Armor without penalty
I remember watching an old Conan cartoon as a kid, and the BBEG wizard wore armor, but the barbarian did not. So there are some traditions that seem to allow arcane casting with armor. (I know Conan in the novels and short stories usually wore a chain mail hauberk of some kind.)
Mages have plenty of buff spells in the status quo, Mac. Mage armor + shield and an average dex along will get that low level wizards AC up to 20 or so. Start throwing in magical toys, couple with the buff spells that continue to improve (if only marginally so), and, well... light armor just doesn't stack with most wizard buff spells, so the wizard shouldn't need it.
And it the wizard is getting mangled, the Player has already screwed up anyway, IMO.
Or, OTOH, he's a wizard and deserves to die. :)-
Here's the thing: You don't grab armor for the AC bonus, you grab it for all those nice little abilities it can give you:
Heavy Fortification for example, or an armor crystal (if you use MiC).
Also it depends a little on what type of character you're playing, a Gish might prefer armor so he can save his spell slots (few spells actually affect touch AC so on that front armor and spells are about even).
Mages have plenty of buff spells in the status quo, Mac. Mage armor + shield and an average dex along will get that low level wizards AC up to 20 or so. Start throwing in magical toys, couple with the buff spells that continue to improve (if only marginally so), and, well... light armor just doesn't stack with most wizard buff spells, so the wizard shouldn't need it.
And it the wizard is getting mangled, the Player has already screwed up anyway, IMO.
Or, OTOH, he's a wizard and deserves to die. :)-
Here's the thing: You don't grab armor for the AC bonus, you grab it for all those nice little abilities it can give you:
Heavy Fortification for example, or an armor crystal (if you use MiC).
Also it depends a little on what type of character you're playing, a Gish might prefer armor so he can save his spell slots (few spells actually affect touch AC so on that front armor and spells are about even).
1) What the heck is a gish?
2) if the wizard needs to rely on heavy fortification, or needs to use an armor crystal, I repeat: He has already screwed up.
3) many of the armor spells are better than armor as they apply to touch AC. Thus, armor spells are in many ways superior, seeing as how the wizard is more likely to be hit by an orb of acid spell than a great sword.
1) What the heck is a gish?
Originally a term for a githyanki fighter/magic-user, the term has now been extended for use for any arcane casting melee fighter type. A net definition I found was:
A magician, or character that is skilled in both physical combat and the use of magic. Most gish characters use their magical abilities to increase their own personal combat abilities (known as "buffing").
2) if the wizard needs to rely on heavy fortification, or needs to use an armor crystal, I repeat: He has already screwed up.
That is true of your stereotypical mage, but doesn't encompass all ways of playing an arcane caster.
3) many of the armor spells are better than armor as they apply to touch AC. Thus, armor spells are in many ways superior, seeing as how the wizard is more likely to be hit by an orb of acid spell than a great sword.
Yes and no. Of course there is the situational component to what you said, but imagine a Swashbuckler/Wizard running and tumblng into the thick of fight... he is as likely to be targetted by the great sword as anyone else mixing it up.
As for the statement of the armor spells being better, I think that bears some looking at as well.
For example, the Mage Armor spell offers a +4 armor bonus (I think greater is +6). At low levels this is great for the gish type character. But once you are mid levels it just isn't keeping up with the Jonses (other fighter types) in regards to an armor bonus as they are getting an armor bonus from the type of armor as well as any enhancement to that armor.
WotC has looked at a couple of ways of dealing with this in the various prestige classes that give spell progression as well as a full BAB. Some allow for casting of arcane spells while in armor. Others, like the Abjurant Champion give bonuses to the spells that provide AC bonuses. Others look for alternate AC bonuses like Dodge or the like. Finally there is an alternate class feature for an armored mage variant of the Fighter class replacing some of the bonus feats to allow arcane casting in armor.
I guess the point is if you want a armored mage, there should be options for how to play this type of character, even if it is not the optimal thing to do for a stereotypical mage.
Sean Mahoney
|
So after reading all the posts, I did some thinking and was wondering what you all thought of this:
Wizards get bonus metamagic/item creation feats at 4th,10th,15th and 20th level right??
What if you gave them a choice at 4th level like this?
At 4th level you can take the bonus feat OR take Armor Proficiency: Light (APL for short) with all the arcane spell failure with it.
At 10th level if you took the APL you can either take the Bonus Feat like normal OR take Armor Proficiency: Medium (APM) OR you can lower the arcane spell failure by 10% on the APL.
15th level: Bonus Feat oR Armor Proficiency: Heavy (APH) OR lower the spell failure by 10% on the APM OR lower the spell failure on the APL by 5%
20th level: stuff repeats.
What do you think?
Personally I think it takes too long and does too little.
However there are several classes, prestige classes, and a few feats even that help with the armored mage idea.
If nothing else you can check on the d20srd.org site, and look at the 'battle sorcerer' variant under the class section of variant rules, that might be close to what you are looking for.
Armor has something else going for it that magic doesn't: It doesn't disappear in an anti-magic aura, plus it saves spells for other uses.