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Hey all, I have a minor issue. I'm making a Drow PC, a prospect I'm relatively excited about because it's something I've never done in any edition of D&D despite having played for a LONG time. I always felt it too cliche after the whole Drizz't thing and didn't want to be like that. But I'm making a character story that's different enough that I don't feel like that's an issue in this case. Cleric of Sehanine Moonbow (alignment CN) and the whole bit.
Anyway, my dilemma is this: My DM is running the campaign in Greyhawk. I'm used to DMing in the Realms and that's the world I know better, but I can adjust. The one issue I have is that he's forbidden the use of all FR source material.
The issue is that I would very much like to take the Daylight Adaptation Feat. It fits with my character's concept and would negate the rather harsh penalties associated with being a drow on the surface world. The most recent version in Drow of the Underdark is blinded for the 1st round, and -1 to attack rolls, saves, and checks thereafter when in bright light. The problem is that the only place I've been able to find the feat in 3 or 3.5 material is in the Player's Guide to Faerun, which is not a usable source for this game.
Does anybody know of another source for this feat? Alternatively, does anybody know a good workaround for it? For now, all I've been able to come up with is darkness, but that's only usable once a day. Now there is a great feat in Drow of the Underdark called "Blend into Shadows" that gives me another use of darkness AND lets me make hide checks in it even when being observed, and that would raise it to 2x/day. But that's still far inferior to daylight adaptation, AND I likely hamper the abilities of the rest of my party, which is not what I have in mind.
Ideas anyone? Thanks in advance!
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A drow is blind for one round in a fight if it's exposed to bright light. Then it only takes a -1. So your PC would probably always be at a -1, but only blinded in those times when he/she's been in the dark for a while and then is exposed to light.
If your DM has already agreed to allow a drow PC you should ask for his/her advice on how to fix the problem of having "-1 ALL day long." It's kinda big.
The problem comes from the design of the mechanics; they're for underdark or night encounters against monsters that live away from light. Not PCs. To use the same argument from Savage Species: a PC shouldn't be an Ooze because it has no opposable thumbs (or even limbs) or shouldn't be an animated candlestick because it can't talk -- a PC shouldn't be a drow because it's going to be half blind all day.
Here's a few possibilities:
Get the DM to allow the FR Feat or recreate it for drow from Erelhei Cinlu.
Trade in one of your drow racial abilities (such as darkness 1/day) for not being half-blind all day.
Buy the DM some top shelf liquor.
Accept the -1 to everything and get something else in return (such as 10 ranks in Knowledge Dungeoneering, Stealth and a bonus Feat).
-W. E. Ray
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A drow is blind for one round in a fight if it's exposed to bright light. Then it only takes a -1. So your PC would probably always be at a -1, but only blinded in those times when he/she's been in the dark for a while and then is exposed to light.
If your DM has already agreed to allow a drow PC you should ask for his/her advice on how to fix the problem of having "-1 ALL day long." It's kinda big.
He not only agreed to allow it, he actively encouraged it. I mentioned that I was considering it - he pointed out that the campaign he was running was very well suited for people playing highly unusual races and that it would fit well, and encouraged me to do it.
And just to be sure I'm not missing something - how is your description of the penalties different than what I said? I think we said the same thing.
The problem comes from the design of the mechanics; they're for underdark or night encounters against monsters that live away from light. Not PCs. To use the same argument from Savage Species: a PC shouldn't be an Ooze because it has no opposable thumbs (or even limbs) or shouldn't be an animated candlestick because it can't talk -- a PC shouldn't be a drow because it's going to be half blind all day.
Well, honestly, there's a BIG difference between trying to justify making a yellow ochre character versus a humanoid. But I do get what you're saying. Making drow characters isn't THAT unusual though - like I said, the main reason I didn't for so long was because I thought it was cliched.
Here's a few possibilities:Get the DM to allow the FR Feat or recreate it for drow from Erelhei Cinlu.
Trade in one of your drow racial abilities (such as darkness 1/day) for not being half-blind all day.
Buy the DM some top shelf liquor.
Accept the -1 to everything and get something else in return (such as 10 ranks in Knowledge Dungeoneering, Stealth and a bonus Feat).
-W. E. Ray
What's the Erelhei Cinlu?
Those other options have potential too...not sure what kind of liquor he drinks though. :)
Seriously, thanks for the reply. :)
Erelhei Cinlu is the major drow city of Oerth, aka Greyhawk. Like most drow cities, it's not a nice place, ruled by Lolth's clergy. Not long ago there was a major war that rebalanced the power of the different houses. Dragon magazine had some interesting commentary on the city (and description), but I don't remember when in the 3.0/3.5 timeline that was.
Congratulations, you now have 1 rank in Knowledge (local)!
Hey all, I have a minor issue. I'm making a Drow PC, a prospect I'm relatively excited about because it's something I've never done in any edition of D&D despite having played for a LONG time. I always felt it too cliche after the whole Drizz't thing and didn't want to be like that. But I'm making a character story that's different enough that I don't feel like that's an issue in this case. Cleric of Sehanine Moonbow (alignment CN) and the whole bit.
Anyway, my dilemma is this: My DM is running the campaign in Greyhawk. I'm used to DMing in the Realms and that's the world I know better, but I can adjust. The one issue I have is that he's forbidden the use of all FR source material.
The issue is that I would very much like to take the Daylight Adaptation Feat. It fits with my character's concept and would negate the rather harsh penalties associated with being a drow on the surface world. The most recent version in Drow of the Underdark is blinded for the 1st round, and -1 to attack rolls, saves, and checks thereafter when in bright light. The problem is that the only place I've been able to find the feat in 3 or 3.5 material is in the Player's Guide to Faerun, which is not a usable source for this game.
Does anybody know of another source for this feat? Alternatively, does anybody know a good workaround for it? For now, all I've been able to come up with is darkness, but that's only usable once a day. Now there is a great feat in Drow of the Underdark called "Blend into Shadows" that gives me another use of darkness AND lets me make hide checks in it even when being observed, and that would raise it to 2x/day. But that's still far inferior to daylight adaptation, AND I likely hamper the abilities of the rest of my party, which is not what I have in mind.
Ideas anyone? Thanks in advance!
I don't think Sehanine Moonbow is an appropriate Deity in Greyhawk since she's originally a Forgotten Realms Deity as far as I now (but I may be wrong, don't know a whole lot about Greyhawk). If he allows you to use one thing from a Realms book, why not the feat. It's only a feat, and not very setting specific nor game breaking in any way.
He could also just say that you don't have the usual light sensitivity due to living on the surface for a long time, he may reduce your darkvision range to compensate f.ex.
Another option is to negate the penalty with special gear like sun lenses(sun lenses are described in Sandstorm, they grant immunity to being dazzled by blind light). Spells and magical items might also help.
I don't think Sehanine Moonbow is an appropriate Deity in Greyhawk since she's originally a Forgotten Realms Deity as far as I now (but I may be wrong, don't...
As a matter of fact, Sehanine is also part of the Oerth cosmology.
She was mentioned in a few Greyhawk supplements, as well as in some Planescape products, which means she is not at all restricted to Toril.
According to the 3.x feat list (on WotC's website), Daylight Adaptation is also available in the Races of Eberron book. I hope that that fact will help.
By the way, Erelhei Cinlu is detailed in the most recent (i.e., Greyhawk) version of Drow of the Underdark.
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I don't think Sehanine Moonbow is an appropriate Deity in Greyhawk since she's originally a Forgotten Realms Deity as far as I now (but I may be wrong, don't...As a matter of fact, Sehanine is also part of the Oerth cosmology.
She was mentioned in a few Greyhawk supplements, as well as in some Planescape products, which means she is not at all restricted to Toril.
Yes, this part at least I did have covered. She fits perfectly with my character's backstory...and she does in fact exist in Greyhawk.
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According to the 3.x feat list (on WotC's website), Daylight Adaptation is also available in the Races of Eberron book. I hope that that fact will help.
By the way, Erelhei Cinlu is detailed in the most recent (i.e., Greyhawk) version of Drow of the Underdark.
Awesome! He hasn't said anything about Eberron supplements - I'll see if I can get that to work. Thanks! If not, I have the backup plan of seeing how those Sandstorm sun lenses will help me. How crazy would it be if he disallowed me taking a feat but allowed a 10gp nonmagic item that did the same thing?
And I do have that Drow of the Underdark supplement - I just haven't read all of it. I'll have to look up the Erelhei Cinlu stuff and give it a read.
Thanks! And thanks to all others who have posted here - I knew I could get answers. If anyone else has anything further to add, that's certainly welcome too!
If you look in the Pathfinder Companion for Legacy of Fire, there's a wondrous item that's a small awning that floats over your head to shade you from the sun. Drow would be buying those things up at the market.
Parasols with a Darkness effect would be particularly useful, and easily improvised by using an Immovable Rod as the handle. (A bit pricy for a parasol, mind you, but if you have one of those giant ones that's made to shade a sultan, it's extremely convenient, and you can still use it as an Immovable Rod.)
Then for the truly silly but easily imagined, Drow wearing giant sombreros from Maztica. No direct sunlight if you're wearing one of those.
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Awnings and sombreros don't really fit my internal vision of my PC, but it's still good to know all the options on the table.
Currently, the plan of attack is going to be to try to take the feat from the Eberron book since that hasn't been outlawed by the dm (yet), with the backup plan being cajoling, with those items as backup. Why would you not allow me to take a feat when I can negate a large portion of the downside, for ten measly gp? We'll see how that all shakes out. :)
I'd just go and ask him to use the feat, even if it is from FR. After all, you're taking a beating already (a level adjustment of +2 and a penalty to con while the stat bonuses you get are the three ability scores the least useful to clerics), and the -1 all day means the character is more disadvantaged. If he wants unusual races, he should properly support them.
If he doesn't allow it, play a human.
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Oh, I wouldn't call them the 3 least useful stats to clerics... Charisma is key for turning and diplomacy and the like (diplomacy is going to be ESPECIALLY important for a surface drow cleric!). Intelligence always helps out on skills, and since the backstory requires that my first level be swashbuckler, the fact that I'll have Weapon Finesse means the dex will be nice for that...not to mention AC and Reflex saves (which clerics tend to suck at).
For my particular cleric, the least important stat will be strength.
But in the end, he is allowing me to take the feat. I didn't even have to whine all that much - he'd decided to let me take it on his own between our conversations.
I probably will still take those sun shade glasses from Sandstorm (I forget the actual name now) for roleplay reasons, but I won't strictly NEED them any more, so that's a plus. :)
Thanks again to all for the assistance.
Everything's alright, then.
About clerics and stats: Seems the cleric will be walking off the beaten path. That will probably deal a moderate blow to your effectiveness. So the -1 would only be adding insult to injury. Not to mention more injury.
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Everything's alright, then.
About clerics and stats: Seems the cleric will be walking off the beaten path. That will probably deal a moderate blow to your effectiveness. So the -1 would only be adding insult to injury. Not to mention more injury.
My DM warned the party that we will face a substantial number of undead. So when I get those improved turning feats up and running, I don't think anyone will question my effectiveness.
Additionally, my domains (elf and travel) are both great...both offer a good spell selection, and elf gives a very useful feat (point blank shot). Additionally, my Swashbuckler level will give me Weapon Finesse, as I mentioned earlier. So, my good dex score should get plenty of use, in melee AND ranged combat, as well as AC and Reflex saves. I don't think I'll suffer TOO badly. And I'll be finding creative ways to get a few more feats into the build - which is good, I keep finding more and more feats I wish I could take for her!
More than that, though, the roleplay opportunities afforded by this character are going to be very memorable, as long as she doesn't die in the first few adventures. :)
I will be "off the beaten path" for a standard cleric, especially since "beaten path" generally means human...but that need not be a bad thing. The "beaten path" doesn't have nearly as many fresh stories, exactly because it IS the beaten path, and while I may not have the same strengths and weaknesses as a human cleric, I think I will still have a lot to offer.
And when it comes right down to it, I can still cast healing spells, which is what some PCs see as the cleric's main role anyway. ;)
Undead hordes, eh? So, PF rogue or no rogue at all? :D
Anyway, with Pathfinder, I see a new path being beaten for the cleric, and it has dwarves and half-orcs on it, always jostling each other.
Oh, before you get entirely the wrong impression of me: I'm all for off the beaten path.
My concerns were mainly that going off the beaten path often hurts effectivity. Not terrible, but with the added hit of LA, the -1 for blindness would have been too much.
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Oh, before you get entirely the wrong impression of me: I'm all for off the beaten path.
My concerns were mainly that going off the beaten path often hurts effectivity. Not terrible, but with the added hit of LA, the -1 for blindness would have been too much.
No, I get ya...and it's something I keep in mind too. As much fun as "off the beaten path" is, nobody likes a PC that's useless. And you're right, if I had to deal with the -1 to everything, on TOP of the 2 level adjustments AND the racial stigma issues, it would have pretty much doomed my PC to that. But hey, look, I can cast "faerie fire" once a day for free!! *cough* :)
But as you said, he saw fit to allow me to take the feat, so we're back in business. :)
Oh, and no, we're not converting over to Pathfinder just yet. Probably the next campaign after this, we will. By then it will be past Beta and it should be very lean and mean. So my cleric will be straight 3.5... but with all the non-CS-specific splatbooks, so there will still be plenty of juice in the party.
PF Beta already is quite lean and mean.