So we had a weird session last night. My players encountered Rukus in the woods with the bear and killed him. They tracked his path back to the house and they encounter Crowfoot in the yard. As they approach, he runs inside (I wanted to have the one with the deformed be a little more childlike).
So they're standing in the yard and I thought it would be funny if Mammy was taunting them to "come inside and sit down". Of course what she was trying to do was lure them through the maze of traps meanwhile have her boys attack them.
So the PCs didn't bite. After some back and forth, Crowfoot runs out screaming and attacks the first PC he comes to, a fighter. They dispatch him in a couple of rounds. The wizard then approaches the house and uses clairvoyance to look inside. He sees the couch made out of human parts and then comes back.
At this point the fighter (who is sometimes a knee-jerk reaction kind of fellow) decides the whole place needs to burn down. He throws a flask of alchemist fire at the house. The house starts to burn.
Meanwhile the ranger and the rogue start investigating the barn. They encounter the three graul boys. The wizard steps over and casts fireball inside the barn dispatching all three. Due to the noise, Biggun' (the spider) hear's the commotion and explosion and bursts through the barn wall to start attacking the PCs.
Question 1: I can't find any specific rules as to whether regular objects need to make a saving throw to avoid catching on fire. The rules say unattended objects always fail their save. I was normally going to let the fireball just do damage and not set fire to the barn. However, for a few moments, they were fighting outside while Biggun' was in the barn so they really wanted to know if the barn was on fire. I said that the barn had started to catch on fire because of the straw being lit by the fireball. It would take a few rounds before the flames were intense enough to do damage to the spider.
So, as the PCs are fighting Biggun in the burning barn and the Graul house is also burning, Mammy decides to get out of the house the best way she knows. She gets all the house inhabitants together and dimension doors outside to join the fight.
There begins an incredibly difficult battle for the PCs with flying Mammy, ogrekin barbarians, rats, and zombies attacking from the ground, etc.
So eventually, the PCs triumph, but not before the bound and gagged rangers in the barn succumb to the fire. Shalelu, who was minding the horses, sees the smoke and comes to the scene. She finds the remains of her stepfather, decides the PCs acted irresponsibly, even if they didn't mean to set the barn on fire, and leaves the group.
Question 2: Is Shalelu's leaving or the rangers being dead going to seriously screw the PCs? They still haven't discovered anything about the Sihedron mark and the town.
I guess all in all I couldn't see a way as the DM to change what happened. Maybe I could have let the rangers live, but I didn't want to give the PCs any more reward for taking the simple, heavy-handed solution. The rules for fireball were pretty clear and there's really no way to rule against the house burning if someone throws alchemists fire on it.
I dont think it really screws them that much but it will really hurts with back story for not having the Black Arrows alive and its fun with Kraven stabbing them in there back
I'm inclined to agree with Joey.
This isn't a dealbreaker, but the impact of Kaven's betrayal (and how the other surviving rangers and Shalelu react) is lessened.
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You know, in this case I think you're best letting the decision ride as it stands.
The "Arson" alternative comes up a lot in Runelords, and I speak from experience. It is tempting to burn Thistletop down, burn Foxglove Manor down, burn the Graul farm down.. Hell, there are some outside barracks at Fort Rannick that actually encourage the PCs to burn it down..
Only you can say if this was an accident, or whether it was a dodge by the players to avoid dealing with the problem in a less destructive manner. My only thought is that you if you soften the consequences of the PCs actions (accidental or not), it only serves to teach that burning the dungeon down is the way to solve problems.
Even if, in this case, it was an accident.
The PCs aren't screwed at all really, just some of the drama in the story is lost.
Yep, I think I missed that. However, mostly the Grauls felt they were better off defending their house from the inside with all the traps. I'm not sure I would have done it differently.
In order to give the players backstory, while still handicapping them slightly for their heavy-handed approach, I'd switch Kraven to some other area. Perhaps he stepped in a bear trap set by one of the Grauls and he's stuck in the woods nearby. Regretful because of his role in Fort Rannick's fall, the traitor wants to help the party (and eliminate evidence of his guilt).
Unfortunately, his desire to help goes out the window once Lucretia gets to him.
In my game, I had Lucretia claim to be an innocent tool of the true villains. She claimed that her family had tremendous debts in Magnimar, debts bought up by a mysterious sect. They forced her to run the gambling boat and turned her over to the ogres when it burned.
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That's a heavy handed group you have there. What did they make of the bear animal companion? He was supposed to be an obvious clue that the Grauls were keeping prisoners - ranger prisoners. Did the Lord Mayor provide the party with enough background information on the Black Arrows to frame the situation?
Anyway, maybe Kaven's body could have a key to the Rannick dungeon? The party could find it opens the secret door. When it opens they could be greeted with the words, "Goodness Kaven, have you come back for more, you naughty bo- who in the nine hells are you!?"
That's a heavy handed group you have there. What did they make of the bear animal companion? He was supposed to be an obvious clue that the Grauls were keeping prisoners - ranger prisoners. Did the Lord Mayor provide the party with enough background information on the Black Arrows to frame the situation?
Anyway, maybe Kaven's body could have a key to the Rannick dungeon? The party could find it opens the secret door. When it opens they could be greeted with the words, "Goodness Kaven, have you come back for more, you naughty bo- who in the nine hells are you!?"
They certainly had enough information. They were told that there hasn't been any word from the rangers and they found the rangers' insignia on Ruckus. I think they didn't make the connection.
Now that I think about it, what real evidence is there that the rangers were being held as prisoners besides Kibb the animal companion's reaction to the party? When the party first heard Kibb, they didn't go help the bear fast enough to save him. So the bear died and they thought that Ruckus was just hunting.
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I've heard Kibb has bit it in more than a few campaigns. The best fix (not that it really helps us now) is to add some clues near the farm, like signs of struggling bodies being dragged to the house or the Grauls flat out bragging that they have prisoners. Having the Black Arrows scream for help works too.
In order to give the players backstory, while still handicapping them slightly for their heavy-handed approach, I'd switch Kraven to some other area. Unfortunately, his desire to help goes out the window once Lucretia gets to him.
I totally agree with this idea. I think that it makes sense that the players suffer a penalty for setting the fires by losing some potential allies. The fact that Shalelu left drives the point home that "we don't need no water let the motherf#cker burn" might be a bad idea.
But I think it also makes sense that they can't get away from the traitor that easily. Kraven should "re-spawn" somewhere so that they still have to deal with that part of the adventure.
I know you cant recon it but it would of been cool to have the rangers screaming for help and the players help them
The players could of run into the fire and saved the rangers
My players deliberately destroyed both the house and the barn from a distance. I let them.
Me: "You successfully destroy the house."
Players: "YAY!"
Me: "You kill everyone who was still inside."
Players: "YAY!"
Me: "You successfully demolish the barn."
Players: "YAY!"
Me: "You kill everyone and everything inside."
Players: "YAY!"
Me: "Including an enormous spider."
Players: "YAY!"
Me: "And also including all of the prisoners."
Players: "..."
Me: "So I guess I don't need to use them to advance the plot at all."
Players: (small voices) "Whoops."
Mammy Graul escaped by flying off. A detect magic showed that there was magic under the rubble of the house, so the PCs spent four days sifting through the rubble trying to find whatever it was. Mammy Graul, of course, flew in at one point and terrified them. She escaped again (and is, in fact, still at large).
How do you play the liklihood of things 'catching fire' from a fireball or alchemists fire?
how quickly does it burn?
how do you play smoke damage etc?
usually when a firespell is cast we just do the damage and move on but this could be more interesting.
How do you play the liklihood of things 'catching fire' from a fireball or alchemists fire?
how quickly does it burn?
how do you play smoke damage etc?
usually when a firespell is cast we just do the damage and move on but this could be more interesting.
Varisia is a damp region at the best of times, and the weather is particularly sodden during the RotRL adventure path. Because of that, I ruled that there was zero chance of accidentally kindling a fire in most of the adventure sites.
My players tried to burn down the misgivings, but the fire flickered and failed within a minute, supernaturally supressed by presence within.
One of the buildings at Fort Rannick is specifially described as a firetrap (My players were thrilled to finally engage in creative arson!), but most areas are thoroughly waterlogged.
I try to realistically envision the progress of fires, not looking at them in terms of game mechanics but instead describing their progress in a more free-form manner.
CEO
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Varisia is a damp region at the best of times, and the weather is particularly sodden during the RotRL adventure path. Because of that, I ruled that there was zero chance of accidentally kindling a fire in most of the adventure sites.My players tried to burn down the misgivings, but the fire flickered and failed within a minute, supernaturally supressed by presence within.
One of the buildings at Fort Rannick is specifially described as a firetrap (My players were thrilled to finally engage in creative arson!), but most areas are thoroughly waterlogged.
I try to realistically envision the progress of fires, not looking at them in terms of game mechanics but instead describing their progress in a more free-form manner.
Exactly! Sounds like your players and my players think the same way. My party actually went to the barn first and freed the rangers there. Then they went to the Graul house and encountered a few traps and decided that it was best to just burn it down. Of course, I have been playing up the heavy and constant rains so that the dam scene later makes more sense. So whenever they think about burning something down, I remind them how water logged everything is from the constant rain. It gets them to think about different options. :)
Btw, Kaven ended up escaping from my group once they got back to Turtleback Ferry. Once he found out that Lucrecia was gone and the barge sunk, he decided to get out of dodge. The party's druid shapechanged and caught him on the road south, but he did a great bluff and told the druid that he was a coward and that attacking a fort stocked with ogres was suicide and he would have nothing to do with it! So the druid let him go. Not sure if I will fill in this loose thread or not later, but it is nice to have Kaven still in the arsenal if needed.
-Lisa
What Lisa said. Specifically, it's been raining so much
My players tried to set the house on fire, too. It wound up being a huge argument over whether the house would catch fire or not. My point was the fireball literally did nothing (objects take half damage from fire, wood has hardness 10, and I gave the house fire resistance 10 to account for the rain, so the wizard would have to roll 41 on 8d6 to deal 1 point of damage).
In the end, all I did was say it pissed off the Grauls enough that everyone inside (except Muck) attacked the party en masse. Wound up being a really cool fight. But still, damaging objects with energy is a real sore spot in our group.
What Lisa said. Specifically, it's been raining so much
I don't disagree with anything that Sir Wulf or Lisa said.. except to point out that this is all after the fact.
The O.P. has already adjudicated the scene by all acounts, based on their post. We're too late, unless he can retcon Kraven being alive. Even then, the other rangers are all piles of ashes now. Unfortunately we can only debrief.
Since it is too late, I would make sure there are at least some consequences to what happened. I agree with their decision to have Shalelu walk off. You can't "softball" it too much.
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What Lisa said. Specifically, it's been raining so muchI don't disagree with anything that Sir Wulf or Lisa said.. except to point out that this is all after the fact.
The O.P. has already adjudicated the scene by all acounts, based on their post. We're too late, unless he can retcon Kraven being alive. Even then, the other rangers are all piles of ashes now. Unfortunately we can only debrief.
Since it is too late, I would make sure there are at least some consequences to what happened. I agree with their decision to have Shalelu walk off. You can't "softball" it too much.
I'm kinda curious what my party plans to do with all this. They defeated Rukus and dropped him to negatives and allowed him to regain consciousness to interrogate him, but the paladin tried a "nicer" approach and was able to make the DC 35 Diplomacy check (making it exactly) so that Rukus told them as much as he knew.
Currently they have approached the farm and have remained hidden in the woodline in the southwest corner, but the wizard is a little trigger happy (being repressed by his former Master).
So its nice to have this thread just in case....so thanks everyone!