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I ran this yesterday (Sunday), and I have to say this did not deliver the much needed confidence in PFS scenarios.
The base idea of the scenario is alright. It's good all the way to the valley, and that's where things start going wrong. I like how Puli and Rafmeln are handled, but they get too little screen time.
The main problems with Asmodeus Mirage are the combat encounters. Even the players said they are utterly random with very little consistency. First Ankhegs, which are actually creatures with 'environment: warm plains'. If a similar stunt would have been pulled in an Open Call, it would have been noted as an error. After all, the encounter happens on a desert terrain.
But it's not just some minor things like that. I pulled a mixed Tier 3-4 & 6-7 with the group since the encounters were so bizarrely imbalanced each time. On Tier 1-2 (EL 2) the last combat with a giant ant soldier is ridiculously easy regardless of the rather neat damage output. With 11 hit points it just isn't going to last long, maybe one or two attacks. Thus, an encounter lasting less than a round. On tier 3-4 (EL 5) the same thing applies. A giant constrictor snake cripples itself by grappling, further decreasing its AC.
But on Tier 6-7 the tide suddenly changes. From ELs 2 and 5 we hop onto 9. A bone devil. Even on tier 6-7 this encounter could prove deadly, thanks to the bone devil's multiple protections (SR, DR, high AC). Since I was sure the team of five pathfinders (APL 4½) couldn't beat it, I put the Tier 3-4 monster in front of them which proved to be a breeze.
Act 1, by the way, to me seems too much of a repetition. This same thing was used in another scenario, and it works poorly here. It all seems so random, why skeletons? What are they? Why are they here? What's with the maelstorm? So many questions to ask.
Krasus was a really bad idea. Just because he's mad isn't good enough a reason to make him attack the PCs. Really, think about it. And the whole combat is poorly executed. On tier 3-4 there are two imps and a meager lemure. On tier 6-7 there are 7 imps and a bearded devil. I chose the latter and the encounter proved to be an annoyingly slow and frustrating. Seven monsters with high AC, fast healing, and poison attacks are a pain in the !"# to a DM. I finally gave up the fast healing and poison just to get on with it. Never ever put that much useless, complicated yet very unthreatening fodder in the way. Also the DR was very annoying. I tell the future DMs to just scrap the annoying fodder, and just have Krasus and two Bearded Devils.
The gnoll village makes things feel odd. Verthig there has no past to speak of, and initially feels like an Andoran faction quest MacGuffin. I had to make an explanation from thin air. Also I had trouble to determine what the elders know and what they don't. Do they know of the flower? How about the dragon? Have they been venturing at all?
The players luckily managed to skip Act 3 altogether, which itself is a ridiculous encounter as well. As I did not run it though, I won't say much else about.
Final verdict: Asmodeus Mirage was alright, but bordering sub-par. Too much scripted encounters with poor reasons. Players got really frustrated and were rolling initiative even before they asked since they just knew they couldn't *talk* their way through. After all the team consisted of four cheliaxians and one osirion, so the Cleric of Asmodeus felt betrayed. Please include options to avoid these mandatory combats!
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I ran this adventure over the weekend, so I read your assessment of it with certain questions in my mind. The main one being 'how long did this adventure take to run?'
Then I realized you didn't do Act 3. It is like a mini-module within the adventure! And if you were to run it I'm sure you would have even more comments. For instance - Tier 3/4 has a polar bear in the lair. I'm just not sure how it would get there.
I struggled to find a reason Enkendu would want the party to clean out his lair of the creatures within. As if he couldn't take care of them himself.
That being said, I do think my group enjoyed the very challenging encounters at Tier 6/7. They did a great job improvising and using anything and everything they could find to help them.
For me, this took over 5 hours to run and even then it was rushed.
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I ran this adventure over the weekend, so I read your assessment of it with certain questions in my mind. The main one being 'how long did this adventure take to run?'
Then I realized you didn't do Act 3. It is like a mini-module within the adventure! And if you were to run it I'm sure you would have even more comments. For instance - Tier 3/4 has a polar bear in the lair. I'm just not sure how it would get there.
I struggled to find a reason Enkendu would want the party to clean out his lair of the creatures within. As if he couldn't take care of them himself.
That being said, I do think my group enjoyed the very challenging encounters at Tier 6/7. They did a great job improvising and using anything and everything they could find to help them.
For me, this took over 5 hours to run and even then it was rushed.
Yeah, even without the Act 3 this module took way more time than expected. Having 7 bothersome imps with poison attacks, DR, high AC, and fast healing really make it annoying.
As I said, the Tier 3-4 encounter are really really imbalanced. 2x Ankhegs, 2x Imp + 1x Lemure, Polar bear + animated object (huge) + centipede swarm, constrictor snake, and some stupid illusionary monsters.
Act 4 and 5 are ridiculously easy on Tier 3-4. This module is a grand example of how to not make combat encounters. I hope you DMs read this and just replace the god awful Tier 6-7 Act 4 encounter with 2 bearded devils and Krasus. Trust me.
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the module also states in the text that if someone realizes the monsters are illusionary, that allies get a +2 to thier saves. phb/srd says its a +4 bonus. since most gms read it as mod text trumps rules, please at least list a rationale for why the save bonus would be different in this instance, or fix it in the pdf. =)
It's not meant to replace the rules--it's meant to make it even easier to save once someone figures out they're an illusion. It's a sub-system created for that specific encounter and that's why we used the circumstance bonus to do it.
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I have read, but not run Asmodeus Mirage yet, so I won't comment on the OP's comments re encounter levels; however I don't regard Ankhegs and Polar Bears being out of place in such a scenario.
While Ankhegs may not be listed in the MM as common to desert environments, without referencing the MM I would have assumed large burrowing beetles with a name sounding like the egyptian "Ankh" to be perfect creatures for such an environment. Golarion often uses side-bars that re-purpose creatures for different environments, eg "Desert Beetle: use stat-block as per Ankheg" and I think the Ankheg is a perfect candidate for this. So I regard the OP's criticism as needlessly pit-nicking in this instance.
Polar Bears in the desert are more glaring, but I think only serves to highlight the unnatural and shifting nature of this "mirage". It appears in the desert once every 100 years. Who knows where it might appear during the other 99 years?
My initial thoughts, an interesting scenario. I like the set-up and possible outcomes with the Gnoll tribe. Though I agree that Chelish characters may be expecting more than this scenario delivers.
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While Ankhegs may not be listed in the MM as common to desert environments, without referencing the MM I would have assumed large burrowing beetles with a name sounding like the egyptian "Ankh" to be perfect creatures for such an environment. Golarion often uses side-bars that re-purpose creatures for different environments, eg "Desert Beetle: use stat-block as per Ankheg" and I think the Ankheg is a perfect candidate for this. So I regard the OP's criticism as needlessly pit-nicking in this instance.
I admit I brought the issue too strongly. Merely I was contemplating how in an open call proposal such a thing could have been viewed as an error, where as in this it is okay. And in fact as a large burrowing beetle in a desert terrain I do feel it to be fitting in the setting. After all, the Ankhegs imitate the 'Sand worm' phenomena. Maybe I still had the fumes of a post-DM rage at the time I wrote the piece.
It's probably not what the DM thinks what's random and what's not, but the players sure saw everything as very random. If it's isolated from the rest of the world for every 100 years, it should probably have used the 'survival of the fittest' rule. Having a personal zoo of three very odd creature (bear, animated object, swarm), it does seem very very odd and random to the player, despite the reasoning.
I guess it's that the players don't expect a desert mirage to be full of oddities. Especially since I was imagining a scenery from Dune with only the tumbleweed idly rolling by with the breeze whizzing. Illusory (I thought it should be 'illusionary') soldiers further make things random.
I thought that the illusory soldiers fit pretty well in the adventure. They were inside a mirage, after all.
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Gonna run this tonight, and a couple of issues strike me as I'm preparing for the session:
1) What is the DC to spot the hiding ankhegs around the gnoll camp? I can't find anything in either the SRD or the adventure to recommend a number.
2) The PCs can earn a bonus on social interactions with gnolls outside the Mirage, but the size of the bonus is unclear: it says it is a +2 bonus in the adventure itself, but the rewards sheet lists the bonus as a +1. It is also a much more broad bonus in the adventure: gnolls in all of Garund, versus gnolls in western Katapesh only.
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I ran this one for the first time this weekend. I didn't like it when I played it, but I hoped I could make more sense out of it when I GMed it. I couldn't. This one is very frustrating for both the players and the GM. The whole act with Enkendu makes no sense. The monsters are ridiculously tough at the 3-4 tier. A polar bear in the desert? And somehow it's still alive after 'wandering' into the mirage a hundred years ago? The polar bear can kill most 3rd or 4th level PCs in a single round. The giant constrictor snake can do the same. Can we give the grappling creatures a rest? The 3-4 tier had three encounters with grappling monsters. We were crunched for time at the end of the convention and there were 7 combats to get through. No resting, nowhere to get healing or resupply expendables. Completely ridiculous. It's going to take some thought on how to mitigate this one before the next time I run it.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean
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I ran this yesterday. The main problematic encounter I found was the animated statue. In particular the hardness of such a creature which is essentially insurmountable Damage Reduction. Talking about it afterwards, we thought that maybe the animated statue should be either trying to get out and so could be lured out of the lair or perhaps it wouldn't leave the room itself so PCs could pull back and deal with it at range.
Regarding grappling creatures, it was ironic that the way the PCs dealt with the imps was by grappling and pinning them!
I brought into the scenario the thought that the mirage travels to other worlds and so some of the creatures might not have been there for 100 years.
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[snip]
Be glad you never had to compare Tier 3-4 and 6-7.
Illusory skeletons are a pain to run, as there are no exact rules how they work. How many will saves must the PCs roll? And then I have to remember which PCs the skeletons don't attack! Aargh! It's an encounter I like to skip, or make more sensible by just making them real. Or something.
But now, compare Enkendu's lair monsters. Tier 3-4 is very dangerous to the party of the level, but Tier 6-7 is something ridiculous. Gargantuan Animated Object with 148 hit points, and a Huge Air Elemental. Actually this encounter itself makes the scenario have 7 combat encounters in total, since it says to have EL 7 encounter each time. Yeah right. I've ran this two times, and both times I skipped this.
And to those DMs going to run this on Tier 6-7... DO NOT PUT 7 IMPS ON THE FIELD! Instead have 2 Bearded Devils and 1 Imp, it'll be much more enjoyable. Cursed be those Imps with high AC, Fast healing and poison attacks.
Also the last encounter can be ridiculously easy to a well-equipped group if played on Tier 3-4. The constrictor snake makes itself vulnerable by grappling (further drops its AC). But I couldn't imagine putting the Bone Devil against 6th level characters.
Maybe if I have the time I'll completely revise the encounters to something much more enjoyable both to the players and the DM, as well as make them more balanced between tiers. Possibly add some sense to the Enkendu encounter. Really, what's the deal with it? I still can't understand what's going on there.
I ran this over the weekend myself, and my impressions are as follows.
1) The randomness of the adventure makes it almost a slog. First of all, there's not a set method of determining which encounter you go to from the previous one. I did it by rolling 1d4, then counting clockwise around the map the number that I rolled. This led, eventually, to at least two encounters with the skeletons (needless to say, the second one was post disbelieving, and a waste of precious time.
2) The encounters in Enkendu's lair are good for the most part, until you take into account the hardness of the statue, WHICH WAS NEVER SPECIFIED IN THE MODULE! Particularly at Tier 1-2, if you set the hardness too high, as I apparently did, you're going to run into parties literally unable to damage it.
3) The final encounter. I'm not sure at about Tier 6-7, but at the lower tiers, this encounter is ridiculously easy, far too easy for a climactic encounter. When I ran this, I actually even attempted to have them end up having to deal with the imp after this, and it still didn't work out.
Frankly, this is definitely a sub-par module by almost any standards, especially with regards to Pathfinder Society. I honestly don't plan to run this one again if I can avoid it at all.
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Well the "Randomness" of a Mirage named for a Demon never really struck me I found it quite "normal" same thing with a polar bear in the desert BECAUSE it only appeared in the desert every 100 years the STATUE was a real Pain in the Behind... (thank goodness for Power Attacking Barbarians) and the Imps were very annoying as everyone has said but frankly it was the Fact that it all had to be done in 24 hours that was the worst.
I was a player in this game and EVERYONE was Magic Starved and Healing Poor (except me the lowly MONK) Thankfully Bearded Devils and Bone Devils can be Stunned the look on the DM's face when the Bearded Devil droped his extremely nasty spear and then the Druids Wolf companion ran off with it was worth the entire module.
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I just played it today, and we won it despite the fact that we had an understaffed party due to some last-minute cancellations.
It was a pure butchery ! We should have died ten times, and only survived because we had amazing luck. I critted at least five times, and the DM failed all her saving throws vs the color spray and glitterdust of the gnome illusionist.
Besides, from a player point of view, it felt really weird.
It was OK, but I really hope the next ones are better.
The many fortunes of Grandmaster Torch was way better IMO.
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Not gonna lie this was an awful mod for a couple reasons.
1 Our GM was ummm not prepared.
2 Pathfinder and suicide are not interchangeable words(well maybe that's debatable).
3 The HUGE AIR ELEMENTAL, this maybe the worst CR7 creature ever made.
4 Bones in a flower guarded by demons....................can you say put down the pipe. Seriously though I have loved many of the mods so far, but this was just silly.
I never speak ill of GM's, but this mod could have been really great if the goal of it wasn't some bones that MIGHT work in a ritual. To undertake such a dangerous mission, which seems very likely to cause permanent death to some seasoned members of the PFS, I would hope the prize would be greater.
See ya all at GENCON!!!!
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I agree with most of the comments here.
I just played this yesterday and it took us 5 1/2 hours and our DM hurried us a bit. We played Tier 6-7 and there was a gargantuan animated object. Hunh? The DM toned down the DR otherwise it would probably been a TPK.
There was a dire bear in another encounter. I agree that bears don't have a place in the desert. I'd give the module overall a C-. I don't think I'd run it if asked or if so I'd have to rework some of the randomness. The dragon lair part was a fun encounter but the the animated object and bear detracted from that.
Mike
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Conversion from 3.5 to PFRPG for Mid Tier 3-4.
Here are my decisions for a running of this I am doing next Sunday; any help on the 2 incomplete items gratefully received:
ACT 1
Illusory Skeletal Warriors [owlbear skeletons] (4) @ CR 2 BECOME Illusory Skeletal Champion (4) @ CR 2 (Bestiary 252)
ACT 2
Ankheg (2) @ CR 3 BECOME Ankheg (2) @ CR 3 (Bestiary 15)
ACT 3
Enkendu the Mad - I don't intend to convert this creature
Polar Bear @ CR 4 BECOMES Grizzly Bear @ CR 4 (Bestiary 31)
Animated Brass Statue (animated object, huge) @ CR 5 BECOMES Large Animated Object @ CR 5 (Bestiary 14)
[I need to create this creature from the Bestiary rules - has anyone got these stats already? If not, I'll eventually post them here when I have done it]
Centipede Swarm @ CR 4 BECOMES Centipede Swarm @ CR 4 (Bestiary 43)
ACT 4
Devil, Imp (2) @ CR 2 BECOME Devil, Imp (2) @ CR 2 (Bestiary 78)
Devil, Lemure @ CR 1 BECOMES Devil, Lemure @ CR 1 (Bestiary 79)
ACT 5
Giant Constrictor Snake @ CR 5 BECOMES Snake, Constrictor (Bestiary 255) advanced to a 7 HD Large Snake @ CR 5
[I need to create this creature from the Bestiary rules - has anyone got these stats already? If not, I'll eventually post them here when I have done it]
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One of the monsters upgraded from Bestiary for Tier 3-4 (corrections welcomed):
Large Animated Object [Brass Statue] CR 5
XP 1,600
N Large construct
Init +0; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception –5
DEFENSE
AC 17, touch 9, flat-footed 17 (-1 size, +8 natural)
hp 52 (4d10+30)
Fort +1, Ref +1, Will –4
Defensive Abilities hardness 10; Immune construct traits
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee 2 slams +7 (1d8+4)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
STATISTICS
Str 18, Dex 10, Con —, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1
Base Atk +4; CMB +9; CMD 19
SQ construction points: additional attack, metal
ECOLOGY
Environment any
Organization solitary, pair, or group (3–12)
Treasure none
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Construction Points Animated objects have a number of
Construction Points (CP) used to purchase abilities and defences
in addition to those presented above. A large animated
object has 3 CP.
Additional Attack (Ex, 1 CP): Gains an additional slam attack.
Metal (Ex, 2 CP): The object is made of brass. Its
hardness increases to 10, and it gains a +2 increase to
its natural armour bonus.
Medium to Large: +4 Str, +2 natural armour; -1 AC/Atk; +1 CMB/CMD
3-4 HD: BAB +1, all SV +0
Plus decided to increase the damage dice from d6 to d8 and add a reach of 10 ft.
Chose appropriate abilities with the CP.
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and the second creature needing upgrade (corrections welcomed):
Constrictor Snake, Large CR 5
XP 1,600
N Large animal
Init +3; Senses scent; Perception +13
Defence
AC 16, touch 12, flat-footed 13 (-1 Large, +3 Dex, +4 natural)
hp 59 (7d8+28)
Fort +8, Ref +8, Will +3
Offence
Speed 20 ft., climb 20 ft., swim 20 ft.
Melee bite +11 (1d8+10 plus grab)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks constrict (1d8+10)
Statistics
Str 25, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2
Base Atk +5; CMB +13 (+17 grapple); CMD 26 (can’t be tripped)
Feats Athletic, Improved Natural Attack, Skill Focus (Perception), Toughness
Skills Acrobatics +16, Climb +18, Perception +13, Stealth +8,
Swim +17;
Racial Modifiers +4 Perception, +4 Stealth, +8 Acrobatics
Ecology
Environment warm forests, swamps, and fresh water
Organization solitary or nest (2–6)
Treasure none
[Calculations:
3–7 HD (+4 HD):
+1 to one ability at 4 HD: DEX; 3rd & 4th feat at 5 HD & 7 HD;
+4 skill ranks
BAB & SV
Medium–Large (Tables 2-2 & 2-3):
Str +8; Dex -2; Con +4; Natural armour +2
AC/Atk -1; CMB/CMD +1; Stealth -4
Reach, die d4-d6]
Hmm sounds like a hack and slash flip through the MM. Is this what PFS is usually like? I am considering auditing a few sessions, but if it's just a series of donkey encounters testing the PCs ability to mete out damage, I'll pass.
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Venture-Captain, Arizona—Tucson
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Hmm sounds like a hack and slash flip through the MM. Is this what PFS is usually like? I am considering auditing a few sessions, but if it's just a series of donkey encounters testing the PCs ability to mete out damage, I'll pass.
This one is not typical of PFS scenarios.
This particular scenario has some oddities in it because of the location in which it's set. Most scenarios are much more thematically inclined that this one was.
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This particular scenario has some oddities in it because of the location in which it's set. Most scenarios are much more thematically inclined that this one was.Ran this last week - it seeemed to go pretty well. The concept was rather neat, and my player's enjoyed the gnoll encounter, though it threw them for a loop that they were conversing with gnolls.
I do agree that this can be a confusing mod to run. It speaks about being able to show up randomly at any one of the four locations, however, later on, it talks about how the PC's should go through every encounter before leaving. In addition, Act 5 should immediately follow Act 4.
So I just rolled randomly, and ignored Act 4 results until the other 3 were done.
When I ran it the party hit two of the acts before getting 4/5. I let them find the last one on their way out.