DM seeking ghoulish advice

[Rezdave]

veector wrote:

I figured ghouls were unintelligent undead. So going back and seeing my mistake, I'm now wondering, "what makes ghouls intelligent?"

Most of this thread has addressed your second question "what do ghouls think about" but not the first question "why are ghouls intelligent undead rather than unintelligent ones."

Note that "intelligent" in this context does not mean "smart", but rather "sentient, conscious or self-aware".

What differentiates ghouls from skeletons and zombies (basically the only "unintelligent undead", IIRC) is the manner in which they come into being. Skeletons and zombies are corpses animated by outside magic ... a necromancer or death-priest casting animate dead. These "unintelligent" undead (aka non-free-willed undead) exist only because someone else wanted them to. They do not think for themselves and must be programmed with specific instructions. They are not self-aware and have no memory of their former existence.

Ghouls come into being when a cannibal dies, when a person is trapped and starves to death (perhaps resorting to cannibalism), when an evil person who has "fed off" the misery of others finally dies and is punished for their wicked life. These kinds of demises are among the circumstances that produce ghouls.

Granted, somewhat similar circumstances could produce vampires, so presumably these were "stronger-willed" mortals. Vampires can also be mortals who literally willed themselves to continue existing beyond the point of death for some reason.

The point is, "intelligent" undead (which generally are "free-willed") exist because their own self-will or actions caused them to be cursed into the state of undeath (or that they were spawned by more powerful undead of the same type).

"Unintelligent" undead exist because there was a corpse lying around that some necromancer or evil priest thought might be useful as a servant or for cannon fodder.

FWIW,

Rez

[Skullking]

Eric Hinkle wrote:

Some ghoulish questions of my own:

... 3) Has it ever been explained how ghouls become ghasts in recent editions of the game? As I recall in 1st Edition, ghouls became ghasts after they were taken to the Abyss and used as hunting dogs by demons. Does this still stand "officially"?

Thanks for any help.

This is from a 2nd Edition Forgotten Realms supplement called Lords of Darkness. It consisted of several short adventures detailing a single undead type.

This is the only produt that has stated this method of creating ghouls.

[Skullking]

Skullking wrote:

This is from a 2nd Edition Forgotten Realms supplement called Lords of Darkness. It consisted of several short adventures detailing a single undead type.

This is the only product that has stated this method of creating ghouls.

Note that there is also a 3rd Ed book called Lords of Darkness which is not the same.

Here it is at Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Darkness-Advanced-Dungeons-Forgotten-Accessory/dp/088 0386223/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253636191&sr=1-8

[Steven Tindall]

OK look out folks here comes something from way outta left feild.
I base my ghouls/ghasts from my experiance with the Shadowrun game.
Mind you let me say it was SR 3rd edition not 4th.

Anyway they veiw the ghouls/ghasts and even vampires as humans that retain their own lives and intellects,desires and connections with others they simply have this unstoppable desire for human flesh.

They try so hard to fit into society and maintain their normal lives but suddenly their looking at their spouse or child like the blue plate speacil or the hunger just comes on them so strong they dont even realize what their doing until someones dead.

I as a DM have used this to garner sympathy for the intelligent undead and had some real fun when a very rightous paladin(NPC) was going to "destroy" the evil undead while the party was trying to find a cure for his curse so he could go back to his family (after one of the children asked in such a sweet heart breaking way to the party cleric to please make my daddy better cause I miss him and want my daddy back) so it was a race to see who would win. The pally or the party,both were right but their can be only one. I like throwing stuff like that at my guys. Anybody can kill the undead but what about trying to actually help them.