How long did the Thassilonian Empire last?

[Mistwalker]

From what I am able to put together from the AP, Emporer Xin ruled for 110 years, then the Runelords ruled for several hundred years.

I am working under the assumption that each Runelord thought that they would be best as Emporer, and only slowly did the system go from Runes of Virtue to Runes of Vice.

Apparently when an apprentice took over from the previous Runelord, they took the name and titles from the rapidely cooling corpse. Well, at least the last Runelord of Greed did.

But, I was curious as to how long the Empire lasted, before it was blasted into oblivion.

[Joey Virtue]

This is a great question that I cant believe has never come up before today
I want to know this also

[James Jacobs]

I worked this all out somewhere in building up the background material for Thassilon, but it never really ended up mattering in the end and never saw print. I'm not sure where those nots went... but the short version is this:

Xin ruled for just over a century before the runelords took over. Xanderghul and Sorshen and five other runelords took over after Xin lost control. The runelords then proceeded to rule for several hundred years before things fell apart. (Xanderghul and Sorshen are the only two runelords who retained control over their nations for the duration.)

In the end, between Xin's rule and the runelords's rule, Thassilon lasted for close to a thousand years. Probably closer to 800 or 900 years.

[Mistwalker]

Thanks James,

That will allow me to fill in the details, as I am confident that my players will do some research on this

Spoiler:

in the library at Jorgenfist

.

[Greg A. Vaughan]

As James mentioned, this was not somethign that was ever given a hard and fast development. I created a timeline specifically for the Satrapy of Greed. Part of it made it into the Karzoug article in PF #6. Of particular note are the facts that the Runelord of Greed immediately before Karzoug was Haphrama. Haphrama reigned over Shalast for 206 years when he was struck down by Karzoug. Karzoug was 77 when he became Runelord of Greed and ruled for a total of 466 years before he retreated into quiescence to avoid the great cataclysm.

Those numbers make me think James' estimate of 1,000 years may be a litle short.

That much is at least canon since it is published in PF #6. The following is merely speculative.

Looking through my notes I see that I created a line of a total of 5 Runelords of Greed following Xin's usurpation.

The first (and perhaps most powerful of that lot, if I recall my original ideas correctly) was Dread Kaladurnae

Kaladurnae was succeeded by his treacherous apprentice who seduced and murdered him, a powerful transmutress (if that's a word) named Fethryr.

Fethryr as in turn succeeded by a very warlike Runelord of Greed named Gimmel. I originally referred to Karzoug's Burning Glaive as "Gimmel's Burning Glaive" on the premise that he was the first to really become associated with the weapon in the Satrapy of Greed" due to his bloodlust and savagery, even though it had in fact served as one of the Alara'quin from the beginning, and as result it had kept his name through his notoriety. Gimmel's reign was not particularly long as I recall because his apprentice Haphrama was more clever than he and knew he could goad him into physical brawl giving ample opportunity for him to fall to a disjunction trap shortly before being blown off the face of the Mhar Massif. Only his glaive was ever found after the looooong tumble.

Finally, as mentioned above, Haphrama reigned for two centuries before Karzoug took over in the time-honored tradition of betrayal.

Unfortunately, though I could find the line of rulers, I can't find the notes that show the actual years, though I think the number maybe closer to 1,500 or 2,000 years or so altogether. If I run across them, I'll post them.

Of final note. I had envisioned that the Runelord's of Greed always took two apprentices to alternately abuse and train in order to let them weed out the weak between them. Haphrama had intended to kill both of his apprentices (Karzoug and Vhage) and start over again, but Karzoug beat him to the betrayal.

Karzoug likewise took two apprentices and was the first to take an actual giant as an apprentice, the cloud giant Khalib. Khalib was ultimately changed into a human transmuter in the final version (though you'll see he slipped through as a giant on the sidebar on page 25). The other apprentice was major NPC in the adventure but ultimately was cut completely for space. However, he may be making a reappearance (after a thorough reimagining) as an NPC in "The Impossible Eye" from the Legacy of Fire adventure path.

I hope that is helpful to you.

[Mistwalker]

Greg A. Vaughan wrote:

I hope that is helpful to you.

Very much so.

Thank you.

The library has just had a few more items expand in size.
:)

[Saurstalk]

Are Runelords a potential entry into Epic Level adventuring? I know Rise of the Runelords wasn't Epic, but Karzoug struck me as being a weaker version of his true potential.

[Majuba]

Saurstalk wrote:

Are Runelords a potential entry into Epic Level adventuring? I know Rise of the Runelords wasn't Epic, but Karzoug struck me as being a weaker version of his true potential.

Karzoug looks pretty tough, but I would say *definitely*! Between the Rune magicks, and the other Runelords who might be awakening (some stronger than Karzoug.. I think James posted on their relative strength at some point back...)

That plus the otherworldly presence in Xin-Shalast makes for plenty of epic material.

[tbug]

Saurstalk wrote:

Are Runelords a potential entry into Epic Level adventuring? I know Rise of the Runelords wasn't Epic, but Karzoug struck me as being a weaker version of his true potential.

I added a level to Karzoug. The Runelord of transmutation really needs to be able to cast mass frog.

[James Jacobs]

Saurstalk wrote:

Are Runelords a potential entry into Epic Level adventuring? I know Rise of the Runelords wasn't Epic, but Karzoug struck me as being a weaker version of his true potential.

Karzoug's at the #3 or maybe #4 spot in power among the seven runelords; he's right in the middle. And at 20th level... he actaully IS quite powerful. Golarion doesn't have much in the way of Elminsters and other epic level characters running around, after all...

[baron arem heshvaun]

Greg A. Vaughan wrote:

Cool COOL stuff.

Thanks Mr. Vaughan, luv this stuff !!

[Mark Moreland]

Greg A. Vaughan wrote:

That much is at least canon since it is published in PF #6. The following is merely speculative.

Oh how I wish the rest were canon! That's some awesome stuff.

[Shem]

So, I think a great Chronicles product would be a complete history of Thassilon with the major cities and stat blocks on all the runelords. I am probably going to have to do one for the runelord of lust because I do not trust my group not to explore further down and rouse her and her minions.

[Majuba]

Shem wrote:

I am probably going to have to do one for the runelord of lust because I do not trust my group not to explore further down and rouse her and her minions.

Further down where? (spoiler tag a good idea) Or were you speaking somewhat metaphorically?

[Mairkurion {tm}]

Good stuff in this thread. Thassilon is definitely still a rich mine, and I hope it gets tapped again in the future.

[Russell Akred]

Shem wrote:

I am probably going to have to do one for the runelord of lust because I do not trust my group not to explore further down and rouse her and her minions.

You know they have drugs now to help stop those roused minions while exploring down below.