I must say, despite not playing 4E I am tempted to buy this book. Has anyone procured it yet? I would love to hear a little about its contents. Is it crunch or fluff heavy? Have they really reworked the entire cosmology? Are there concepts worth yoinking for a non-4E game or are they too alien/tied to the new mechanic? Is Sigil still represented?
Just curious ...
Add me as another curious 3.x player. I always thought this might be the one 4E book I'd buy, as I *loved* the concept of the Feywild. Once the holiday shopping season is over and I can find a parking space again, I might go the Barnes & Noble and flip through a copy, but until then I'd appreciate any reviews anyone might have of this product.
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It appears the front half of the book is primarily crunch free. There is a section on each of the fundamental planes (Astral Sea, Elemental Chaos, Feywild, and Shadowfell). All of these sections are pretty setting material heavy and look like they could exist on their own. For instance, the Shadowfell could easily supplement or replace the Great Wheel's Plane of Shadow. The same goes for the Feywild.
There is a sizable sidebar that talks about the Great Wheel and how the planes detailed in the book relate to that planar cosmology. If anything, you could use the info provided by the book to recreate the Great Wheel or supplement already existing information. In fact, my first thought was I could easily place Greyhawk in this planar structure and just state the Great Wheel is their idea of how the planes look. There is also some info on developing new cosmologies, though not nearly as much as the 3e Manual of the Planes.
Someone interested in the World Axis cosmology could take the model and transplant it straight into a 3.5 game.
The back end of the book, perhaps the last 1/3 or so (I haven't counted) is mostly crunch. In the end, it has creatures already detailed in 3.5, some new rituals that are revamps from earlier spells, and some old magic items that have been updated to 4e. There are some things, crunchwise, that are wholly new. Not sure how much those things would benefit 3.5 players beyond providing some inspiration.
Overall, I really like the book. I think the details they reveal are just enough to spark the imagination but not too much that I feel constrained by canon.
The back end of the book, perhaps the last 1/3 or so (I haven't counted) is mostly crunch. In the end, it has creatures already detailed in 3.5, some new rituals that are revamps from earlier spells, and some old magic items that have been updated to 4e. There are some things, crunchwise, that are wholly new. Not sure how much those things would benefit 3.5 players beyond providing some inspiration.
As a 4E DM and potential customer, I am mostly interested in the monsters. Can anyone give a brief list of what monsters appear in the MotP 4E?
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The back end of the book, perhaps the last 1/3 or so (I haven't counted) is mostly crunch. In the end, it has creatures already detailed in 3.5, some new rituals that are revamps from earlier spells, and some old magic items that have been updated to 4e. There are some things, crunchwise, that are wholly new. Not sure how much those things would benefit 3.5 players beyond providing some inspiration.As a 4E DM and potential customer, I am mostly interested in the monsters. Can anyone give a brief list of what monsters appear in the MotP 4E?
I don't have the book with me at work but I can do that when I get home, presuming someone doesn't beat me to it.
I do know there are some revised demons and devils and stats on Baphomet, Dispater, and one (?) other famous personage. The only fay creature I can remember off hand is the korred. Otherwise, there are a few more planar creatures thrown into the mix.
Disappointingly, I don't remember seeing any artifacts detailed, though there are a number of magic items. I have only flipped through that portion of the book and have not read it in-depth. I was really hoping for a 4e update to the Codex of Infinite Planes.
I am in the process of planning/running a 4e game as well and I can say the book is pretty nifty. I am not sure how much I plan on using right now but it does give me a ton of ideas. I can easily imagine an all-planar campaign based out of Sigil or Gloomwrought (city in the Shadowfell). What is nice is the World Axis can be endlessly expanded to accomodate a DMs needs. If anything, it gives a more complete understanding of the default setting, which I feel is a pretty good thing.
Thanks for the report! For 34% off at Amazon, I might buy it for the fluff. Ever since I first heard about the Feywild, I wanted to send the PCs in my campaign there, and I'll probably use the Astral Sea and Elemental Chaos as well.
One of the things I would have thought might be interesting is, to bridge a gap here, to assume that not only is Sigil in its own demiplane, but the entire Outlands are a separate Demiplane, with all of the gate towns at the far ends of the finite disk of the Outlands.
In fact, not only could you frame the Outlands this way, but also Yggdrasil, and effectively manage to explain previous cosmologies and connections while still presenting the "new" way the universe works.
Just a thought that I had about all of this (and it still has a few hiccups when you figure that the Abyss isn't an Astral Domain, but, hey, there could still be a portal to it in a gatetown, right?)
I've done a once over read and really read about 1\2 of the book so far.
Now i am a 4e player so that might skew my view a little.
So far i really like this book, i did not plane on buying it but i ended up with a free copy. I expected it to be a lot like the draconomicon and near unless for the every player and nice for a DM to have from time to time.
However with the last 1\3 or so of the book being some cool magic itmes, paragon paths and interesting armor i think a player might want to have this book if (and really only if) they are playing in a game where you must travel the planes. (unlike the dracomicon that has no use for a PC).
As far as fluf i like it, the fey is great and have alwasy loved the idea. The shadow fell is not bad, and can be an interesting aspect to the game.
I also like the change in what you need to travel from plane to plane. in 3e you needed a tuning fork set to the tone of the plane, as much as that is a neat idea it was basicly you know it (knowage check) or you found a fork that was set for that plane.
Now They use runes or emplems for each plane that must be using during the ritual to travel. This can let you give a PC peaces during a game so that at one point they have all the peaces of the ritual... small change but one i like.
Over all i give this book a B+ and would recomend it for any DM to have and a few PCs to have.
ps. sorry about anyspelling errors...
As far as monsters go:
MONSTER LEVEL ROLE
Bladeling Spiker 6 Soldier
Canoloth (Demon) 7 Soldier
Bladeling Razorguard 8 Artillery
Pain Devil 8 Soldier
Korred Cudgeleer 8 Soldier
Bladeling Ironmage 10 Elite Controller
Korred Dancecaller 10 Controller (Leader)
Pain Devil Captain 11 Controller (Leader)
Shadow Demon 12 Elite Lurker
Canoloth Harrier (Demon) 13 Minion
Chasme (Demon) 14 Skirmisher
Solamith (Demon) 15 Artillery
Dark Acolyte of Graz’zt 15 Minion
Six-Fingered Slayer 15 Lurker
Air Archon Zephyrhaunt 16 Lurker
Howling Blade 16 Skirmisher (Leader)
Keeper 17 Lurker
Air Archon Tempestblade 18 Skirmisher
Barbed Devil 18 Skirmisher
Barbed Devil Enforcer 18 Soldier
Raavasta Observer 19 Lurker
Aspect of Dispater 20 Elite Controller
(Leader)
Chosen of Graz’zt 22 Elite Controller
Storm Devil 23 Artillery
Raavasta Conniver 23 Elite Controller
Astral Dreadnought 24 Solo Brute
Aspect of Graz’zt 24 Elite Skirmisher
Baphomet (Demon) 28 Solo Brute
Brazen Devil 28 Soldier
Dispater (Devil) 28 Solo Controller
Graz’zt (Demon) 32 Solo Skirmisher
Not a bad list
I only skimmed through the books so take this synopsis with a grain of salt. I'm an avid 4e player and my primary interests were in the Feywild and Elemental Chaos. Overall, I was a little disappointed. I fully planned to buy it, but after skimming through it I think I'm going to hold off.
I guess I'm used to the Fiendish Codexs that really gave a lot of info and detail and crunch and the book just left me wanting a little more. It's a thin book to begin with. I was also disappointed they didn't put in more information on the primordials, an exciting addition in my mind to 4e. Also disappointing was that fact that it only stat'ed a couple major demons and no Gods. It didn't feel like a good complete description of the planes. Perhaps they are making way for Manual of the Planes II & III? I would have preferred it then if they had come out with something like Manual of the Planes I: The Abyss, or some such.
I'll still buy the book someday (there is plenty in in I'll use and what is in there is good stuff), but it was disappointing after what I thought was a very good 4e Draconomicon.
Thanks for the input guys. Might have to flip though a copy this weekend at B&N since I am fated to walk the crowded depths of my local mall <SIGH>.
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I only skimmed through the books so take this synopsis with a grain of salt. I'm an avid 4e player and my primary interests were in the Feywild and Elemental Chaos. Overall, I was a little disappointed. I fully planned to buy it, but after skimming through it I think I'm going to hold off.
I guess I'm used to the Fiendish Codexs that really gave a lot of info and detail and crunch and the book just left me wanting a little more. It's a thin book to begin with. I was also disappointed they didn't put in more information on the primordials, an exciting addition in my mind to 4e. Also disappointing was that fact that it only stat'ed a couple major demons and no Gods. It didn't feel like a good complete description of the planes. Perhaps they are making way for Manual of the Planes II & III? I would have preferred it then if they had come out with something like Manual of the Planes I: The Abyss, or some such.
I'll still buy the book someday (there is plenty in in I'll use and what is in there is good stuff), but it was disappointing after what I thought was a very good 4e Draconomicon.
I miss the great wheel :) I'm a reluctant 4e player and I think it was a bit light on fluff. I think the new planes could have been fleshed out a lot better.
Mike
I never liked the great wheel, i felt there were to many useless planes.
I too would not mind a little more fluf in the book, what's in there is good but I would have liked more.
I never liked the great wheel, i felt there were to many useless planes.
I too would not mind a little more fluf in the book, what's in there is good but I would have liked more.
Pretty much spot on in both sentiments for me as well. I'll probably pick it up, which will be a first for me in a LONG while as, after being disappointed with 1st editions manual of the planes I skipped 2nd and 3rd editions versions. a new take on the whole thing has me intrigued enough to check it out.
I'm very much with you in terms of having too many planes. I've always been something of a fan of less is more in terms of planes. To many odd ball ones just make things hard to follow. If my players can't, more or less go from being a newbie to being at least passingly familiar with the planes after one read through of my worlds cosmology I tend to think I'm over complicating things. For me this is especially true because I generally use the planes as either a place to visit very shortly through a gate to fight some great evil or, much more commonly, as a place from which various things originate but the action is firmly focused on my main campaign world. So Demons get summoned from the Abyss to the campaign world a lot more often then the PCs go to the Abyss.