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Okay so the cover of the new AP shows both Valeros and Seoni, Don't get me wrong I'm ready for them to come back, but it begs the question, is it going to be the same group of iconics as the first AP now that you've run through them all or are you mixing up the party? Personally I was hoping for mix ups, not seeing the same 4 in groups every go around.
Director of Brand Strategy
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Okay so the cover of the new AP shows both Valeros and Seoni, Don't get me wrong I'm ready for them to come back, but it begs the question, is it going to be the same group of iconics as the first AP now that you've run through them all or are you mixing up the party? Personally I was hoping for mix ups, not seeing the same 4 in groups every go around.
Yeah, I would have assumed that Seelah and Kyra would be present in this AP, but since that would make an odd party when combined with Seoni and Valeros. Maybe they're just using them on the cover and internal art, but the pregens will be a different group. Weren't there images of Valeros in some of the early SD or CotC books?
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As much as a part of me likes the 'iconic' idea, and understands the marketing value of familiar 'branding' characters, I've had over a year to get familiar with Seoni, etc.
I wouldn't mind seeing *new* sample characters rotated in from time to time.
3rd edition had a few 'extra' Iconics wandering around (Kerwin, the human Rogue, Eberk, the dwarf Cleric, Naull, the Mayan-looking human evoker,, etc.). I'd love to see a few more options, and not have *every* picture of a Fighter be a picture of Valeros.
(Incidentally, I love a lot of those Lockwood pictures that never made it. The Gnome with the gatling repeating crossbow is awesome, as are the half-elven druid and sorceress, and human sorceress and 'female barbarian 2'!)
I wouldn't mind seeing *new* sample characters rotated in from time to time.
As far as I know, the iconics are there for good. They won't be switched out.
Is it going to be the same group of iconics as the first AP...
No. And remember, Ezren showed up on some Runelords covers, and all of the iconics from Runelords showed up on Second Darkness covers. The cover often reflects the characters inside, but not always. At least one of the characters on the cover to #19 will be among the pregenerated characters for Legacy of Fire, though.
blah blah blah...
Who's the hawt chick on the right?!?!?
Umm... that's a gnoll. Her name is.... Jumpijaws.
Oh, in the other picture. She's one of your big allies for the AP. You'll be hearing plenty more about her soon!
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I'm really curious why the iconics are getting so much attention. Personally, I couldn't care less about the iconics. Don't get me wrong; I like the art and their background stories were great and they're really nice as example characters that can be shown to new players, but I don't care at all, who's in which AP and who's not...
I can understand that Paizo wants to have these as they already did in Dungeon. But what's so special about the iconics?
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Creative Director
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We were originally gonna use Seelah in this AP as a sample PC, but then we realized that as a paladin of Iomedae, she'd have a LOT more fun in the next AP. Which is set in Cheliax. And Lem and Seltyiel have some cool ties to Cheliax too so they get to go into that same party. (And yes I realize this means a lawful evil character in the same party as a paladin, I'm kinda okay with that currently).
ANYway. The cast of sample PCs we'll be going with in Legacy of Fire is close to the same mix as the originals, but not quite. Merisiel, Ezren, Valeros, and Kyra.
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Creative Director
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I'm really curious why the iconics are getting so much attention. Personally, I couldn't care less about the iconics. Don't get me wrong; I like the art and their background stories were great and they're really nice as example characters that can be shown to new players, but I don't care at all, who's in which AP and who's not...
I can understand that Paizo wants to have these as they already did in Dungeon. But what's so special about the iconics?
I'm sort of curious as well... When we did iconics in Dungeon, they didn't have names. They were just pieces of art for the artists to reference so we didn't have to repeat every single time "Don't put the wizard in plate mail! Make sure the cleric has a holy symbol!" type thing over and over. And of course, readers swarmed us with questions about the iconics; questions we couldn't really answer because there WERE no answers. We knew their race and class and that was it. Actually, that's not quite true; we also wanted the iconics to give an identifiable and repetitive personality to Dungeon; by the end of the magaizne's run a reader of the magazine would feel comfortable with the familiar faces in the same way the viewer of a long-running TV series feels comfortable. THAT, I suspect, is why folk wanted to know more about the iconics. They'd become friends to the reader!
For Pathfinder, we made sure to not only give each iconic a name and a cool backstory, but we decided to use them as sample PCs. Back in the Old Days, modules ALWAYS put sample PCs in the back, and we wanted to evoke that. Made sense to kill two birds with one stone, and so we combined that with our iconics.
And that first paragraph wasn't quite spot on either. By the end of Dungeon's Paizo days, we all had some pretty detailed personalities worked out for the iconics there, but we just had no place to reveal that info. I'm actually really quite happy with not only what we've been able to do with the Pathfinder Iconics, but with how popular they seem to be! (Especially Merisiel! She's so dreamy!)
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Wow thanks for chiming in, I'll admit a little disapointment that 3 of the same party wound up together again so soon, but way to throw a twist in there, having seoni on the cover but not as a part of the party. Didn't see that coming. I just hope when the AP after LoF rolls around that the party isn't 3 out of 4 again :)
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As much as a part of me likes the 'iconic' idea, and understands the marketing value of familiar 'branding' characters, I've had over a year to get familiar with Seoni, etc.
I wouldn't mind seeing *new* sample characters rotated in from time to time.
3rd edition had a few 'extra' Iconics wandering around (Kerwin, the human Rogue, Eberk, the dwarf Cleric, Naull, the Mayan-looking human evoker,, etc.). I'd love to see a few more options, and not have *every* picture of a Fighter be a picture of Valeros.
(Incidentally, I love a lot of those Lockwood pictures that never made it. The Gnome with the gatling repeating crossbow is awesome, as are the half-elven druid and sorceress, and human sorceress and 'female barbarian 2'!)
I'd also like to see new iconics. I'm getting bored with these ones (and why devote space to them in every module and AP? How many people use pregens in practice, that it wouldn't just be better to stick them up on the web and produce one or two pages more cool content?
Oh, in the other picture. She's one of your big allies for the AP. You'll be hearing plenty more about her soon!
Skin tone in that picture seems kind of 'northern European' for an Egyptian themed land. Actually thats a bit of a beef I've so far been having with the art. While there are characters with a wide variety of of skin tones so far everyone that is not northern european looking seems like a token inclusion.
I was just chalking that up to the idea that were the adventures had taken place the general ethnic groups had all been classic northern european style white people but its a little disconcerting to find that this ethnic group also seems to predominate in places as far away as Osirion.
In truth I'm just greedy - I want to steal your art work for my homebrew but there are just to many white people running around for my homebrew which is based in the southern hemisphere and has relatively few white people instead emphasizing other ethnic groups.
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Oh, in the other picture. She's one of your big allies for the AP. You'll be hearing plenty more about her soon!Skin tone in that picture seems kind of 'northern European' for an Egyptian themed land. Actually thats a bit of a beef I've so far been having with the art. While there are characters with a wide variety of of skin tones so far everyone that is not northern european looking seems like a token inclusion.
I was just chalking that up to the idea that were the adventures had taken place the general ethnic groups had all been classic northern european style white people but its a little disconcerting to find that this ethnic group also seems to predominate in places as far away as Osirion.
Well to be fair do you know if she is actually an Osirion? Could be a trader from Korvosa or an explorer from cheliax for all we know.
Well to be fair do you know if she is actually an Osirion? Could be a trader from Korvosa or an explorer from cheliax for all we know.
Well I suppose I don't know...in the end I strongly suspect that the art work for Legacy of Fire has already been commissioned so I guess we'll find out.
Her name is.... Jumpijaws.
I want to hear more about this new Gnoll iconic! When will she be a sample character?
This may have been answered but will there be iconics for the prestige classes and will those ever be used in these cases?
Seltyiel is kind of the iconic eldritch knight, but that's pretty much as close as we're going to get for the foreseeable future. Just since these guys need to start from level 1 for the APs they kind of become the iconic "whatever the first class they took" is. Now down the line if we ever do a high-level AP, maybe, though we'll still probably lean on our classic iconics, but I'm not ruling anything out!
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And that first paragraph wasn't quite spot on either. By the end of Dungeon's Paizo days, we all had some pretty detailed personalities worked out for the iconics there, but we just had no place to reveal that info.
Ooh, I'd love to see these, some day. Perhaps in a book of pregenerated characters. The Tiefling Barbarian and Dark Elven Bard looked quite unusual, but my favorites were the Sorceress, Druid and kind of rasta-looking Monk.
I also look forward to meeting our new Iconic Gnoll, Jumpijaws. Hopefully, she's a Druid or Ranger with a Hyena or Hyaenadon Companion!
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Creative Director
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Wow thanks for chiming in, I'll admit a little disapointment that 3 of the same party wound up together again so soon, but way to throw a twist in there, having seoni on the cover but not as a part of the party. Didn't see that coming. I just hope when the AP after LoF rolls around that the party isn't 3 out of 4 again :)
Council of Thieves, at this point, is likely to have Seelah, Seltyiel, and Lem. The fourth spot will PROBABLY go to Harsk or Sajan or Seoni.
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Creative Director
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Oh, in the other picture. She's one of your big allies for the AP. You'll be hearing plenty more about her soon!Skin tone in that picture seems kind of 'northern European' for an Egyptian themed land. Actually thats a bit of a beef I've so far been having with the art. While there are characters with a wide variety of of skin tones so far everyone that is not northern european looking seems like a token inclusion.
I was just chalking that up to the idea that were the adventures had taken place the general ethnic groups had all been classic northern european style white people but its a little disconcerting to find that this ethnic group also seems to predominate in places as far away as Osirion.
In truth I'm just greedy - I want to steal your art work for my homebrew but there are just to many white people running around for my homebrew which is based in the southern hemisphere and has relatively few white people instead emphasizing other ethnic groups.
Thing is, though, she's not a native of Katapesh. She's a Varisian whose family moved to Katapesh; she was born in Katapesh, but her parents were not. It's sort of one of the ways we're making a transition from Varisia to Katapesh...
Council of Thieves, at this point, is likely to have Seelah, Seltyiel, and Lem. The fourth spot will PROBABLY go to Harsk or Sajan or Seoni.
Oooh! Seoni, totally! Because she can get all out of spells and scared and then Seltyiel can totally be all like, "Yeeeah, it's okay baby, I've still got my magic. You like the bad boys, don't you. The ears do it for you, I know. Shh shh, it's cool I'll still be here in the morning... maybe."
Though this could all play out with Sajan too and that'd be cool.... Umm... I'll be in my bunk. :P
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Council of Thieves, at this point, is likely to have Seelah, Seltyiel, and Lem. The fourth spot will PROBABLY go to Harsk or Sajan or Seoni.Oooh! Seoni, totally! Because she can get all out of spells and scared and then Seltyiel can totally be all like, "Yeeeah, it's okay baby, I've still got my magic. You like the bad boys, don't you. The ears do it for you, I know. Shh shh, it's cool I'll still be here in the morning... maybe."
Though this could all play out with Sajan too and that'd be cool.... Umm... I'll be in my bunk. :P
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...well, there's a side of Wes we've never seen quite that...explicitly...before.
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Council of Thieves, at this point, is likely to have Seelah, Seltyiel, and Lem. The fourth spot will PROBABLY go to Harsk or Sajan or Seoni.Oooh! Seoni, totally! Because she can get all out of spells and scared and then Seltyiel can totally be all like, "Yeeeah, it's okay baby, I've still got my magic. You like the bad boys, don't you. The ears do it for you, I know. Shh shh, it's cool I'll still be here in the morning... maybe."
Though this could all play out with Sajan too and that'd be cool.... Umm... I'll be in my bunk. :P
Did Erik have the day off again or something?
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Wow thanks for chiming in, I'll admit a little disapointment that 3 of the same party wound up together again so soon, but way to throw a twist in there, having seoni on the cover but not as a part of the party. Didn't see that coming. I just hope when the AP after LoF rolls around that the party isn't 3 out of 4 again :)Council of Thieves, at this point, is likely to have Seelah, Seltyiel, and Lem. The fourth spot will PROBABLY go to Harsk or Sajan or Seoni.
My vote is also for Seoni
...well, there's a side of Wes we've never seen quite that...explicitly...before.
What? 0_0
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Though this could all play out with Sajan too and that'd be cool...
I read that first, and thought, 'Why would Seltyiel be all comforting Sajan? Is this Golarion slashfic?' and then I realized you meant replacing *Seltyiel* with Sajan, not Seoni with Sajan!
And it now occurs to me that too many of these characters' names start with 's.'
Oh, in the other picture. She's one of your big allies for the AP. You'll be hearing plenty more about her soon!
Kind of wondering, the left hand appears to be... well, disabled, I guess. Am I just reading into the art, or is that actually part of the character design? [The attractive woman with a single flaw being a kind of literary trope so to speak.]
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Ok, THIS artist I like. Very much. His style reminds me of old school stuff! (Big Jeff Easley fan here, sorry...).
I hate to say it, but I don't care much for the "anime/cartoony" style prevalent in much of today's RPG art. (Well, the goblins are kinda cool, but other than that...). This in no way influences my purchase decisions, however. As long as the text is full of awesome goodness, the art isn't a big deal. :)
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Kind of wondering, the left hand appears to be... well, disabled, I guess. Am I just reading into the art, or is that actually part of the character design? [The attractive woman with a single flaw being a kind of literary trope so to speak.]
I think that you are reading too much into that art. But what do I know?
Unless she's some sort of gish (I hate that word, but James Jacobs insists on using it all the damn time), in which case she's about to cast a spell.
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...gish (I hate that word, but James Jacobs insists on using it all the damn time...Irony.
That was, indeed, the motivation for my post.
Oh, in the other picture. She's one of your big allies for the AP. You'll be hearing plenty more about her soon!
Can you give me her number? She's cute.
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Can you give me her number? She's cute.
Oh, in the other picture. She's one of your big allies for the AP. You'll be hearing plenty more about her soon!
1-800-JUMBIJAW. The first minute is free. 1 gold sovereign for each additional minute. Satisfaction guaranteed! And remember, Gnolls have eight nipples!
Oooh! Seoni, totally! Because she can get all out of spells and scared and then Seltyiel can totally be all like, "Yeeeah, it's okay baby, I've still got my magic. You like the bad boys, don't you. The ears do it for you, I know. Shh shh, it's cool I'll still be here in the morning... maybe."
It's true! Sorceresses dig the bad guys.
1-800-JUMBIJAW. The first minute is free. 1 gold sovereign for each additional minute. Satisfaction guaranteed! And remember, Gnolls have eight nipples!
I kinda meant the oriental princess.
Ok, THIS artist I like. Very much. His style reminds me of old school stuff! (Big Jeff Easley fan here, sorry...).
I hate to say it, but I don't care much for the "anime/cartoony" style prevalent in much of today's RPG art. (Well, the goblins are kinda cool, but other than that...). This in no way influences my purchase decisions, however. As long as the text is full of awesome goodness, the art isn't a big deal. :)
Have at it here and here. Jesper Ejsing has done a lot of illustrations for Fantasy Flight Games and some M:tg cards too (plus a slew of other things, probably mostly recognized by us Scandinavians from the game Drakar och Demoner (Dragons & Demons)).
The vikings are taking over! :-D|
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It's true! Sorceresses dig the bad guys.
Oooh! Seoni, totally! Because she can get all out of spells and scared and then Seltyiel can totally be all like, "Yeeeah, it's okay baby, I've still got my magic. You like the bad boys, don't you. The ears do it for you, I know. Shh shh, it's cool I'll still be here in the morning... maybe."
that is why i prefer Merisiel, she just need someone to protect and take care of her...
besides her multiple daggers... but that is still a touchy subject between us :P
that is why i prefer Merisiel, she just need someone to protect and take care of her...
Protector complex? I don't think Merry's the right girl for you. She's the kind of girl I can absolutely see taking care of herself. And of business. And of any problems that would arise. She's a forlorn with a lot of knives and sneak attack.
I guess if you want someone to protect, Lini's the closest bet.
and Lini... well i like gnomes more than halfling... but still... i pass
That's sizist.
A cha bonus is a cha bonus.
that is why i prefer Merisiel, she just need someone to protect and take care of her...
Taking care of an emo elf... ewww... just thinking of Merisiel makes me shudder... too... much... BAGGAGE!
*sings "She's got issues" by The Offspring*